CherokeeScouter

So glad we don't wear them. Didn't care for them as a Scout, don't care for them as a Scouter.

Absolutely make it online. I have a real problem getting adult personnel to in-person training.

Uh, no. Size 12 shoe not tasting too good right now.

Point well taken.

LOL. I've written about this episode before, but it's worth repeating. But I once did a Tenderfoot or Second Class (can't remember all the particulars) BOR for a 16-year-old who had been in the troop for about 4 years and who also had like over 50 nights camping and 150 miles hiking. He also was excellent hunter and fisherman. The BOR thought it was a mistake, but the kid confirmed, yes he indeed was just a Scout (or whatever that preceding rank was). Naturally we were a little curious and started asking questions. He just replied he didn't like "all that advancement stuff" and that he just like to hike and camp with his buddies. At summer camp, he would spend every hour at the shooting or archery range or the waterfront. I don't think he ever completed a MB. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I gotta say, I'm an Eagle and been in adult leadership for about 6 years. I have never seen such discussion about the way advancement is entered and kept. Regardless of all the blue cards, Scout handbooks, etc. at some point, it has to go into a database. No two ways about it. Doesn't your Scout's advancement end up on the troop's computer (or the advancement chair's), which is then periodically uploaded to council? This centralized database is what council and National are looking to as to whether a Scout has met the requirements for Eagle. Handbooks and blue cards are excellent ways to teach responsibility and self-reliance, but to say they are "the official record" and we don't accept anything else is kinda cray. The official record of a Scout's advancement rests in that Council's database.

I have never in my life turned a blue card into Council. There are 10 ways to earn a MB and only in a couple of instances, are we able to use a Blue Card with any success.

Your local council is still your best bet. I tracked down my Eagle info from the new council that replaced my old council, which merged. And they found it in seconds. As far as any more advancement info beyond Eagle stuff, good luck. The council I was dealing with did not have any OA records or any other advancement records except copies of old charters. Not sure they had centralized reporting of advancement until the computer systems came on line. SST3rd, what on earth is your council using to record advancement? With most councils, advancement records are uploaded or recorded in council's database. When you submit an Eagle App, council checks the dates against their records and if all matches up, they approve it. I mean it's good you're using the book, MB cards and all that paper, but if a new Scout from another council transfers in with his old council's computer printout, are you saying you wouldn't honor it? Plus, what good does all the paper do if council has no record of anything.? Am I missing something?

Our Scoutmaster came up with a good way to get in some leg training and backpacking treks for us flatlanders who may not have many weekends to devote to skakedown hikes in preparations for Philmont and the AT. He did this weekend's 15K with a full pack. And we have a slew of 15K and 5K race/walks coming up between now and summer sponsored by various nonprofits. Excellent way for the Scouts - and the adults - to break in boots, get used to carrying weight, etc. - without having to devote a full weekend to shakedown treks (although there is no substitute for that). Plus, if the troop is involved, it can count as a troop activity and maybe count for certain day hikes needed for MB or rank.

You people obviously have some time on your hands. Why don't you spend some of that time to help me in my crusade to revamp the Eagle Project Workbook.

That's interesting because that is the age group having the toughest time. Maybe they need to slow or maybe you are really smart, which you probably are.

You may be in the minority here. But there seems to be a correlation with age. Are you an adult or youth?

My son and a buddy were thinking of doing the Philmont Trail Crew trek. Has anyone on here done this or is familiar with it? If so, did they like it or have they heard good things about it? Also, the website is kind of scarce on details. It seems like a week of work, then a weeklong trek. If so, where do they stay in the first week? Are meals provided? Where do they eat, etc. ? What's the trek like? How many miles? Will they be able to get a 50-miler in? Any details you can provide would be helpful. Tx in advance.

Wouldn't it be great if we could somehow fix this problem? Which brings me back to my OP. Does anyone from National follow this forum?

Yeah, the "leadership to others" wasn't in the requirement when I did my project. But it was an awesome project that involved tons of Scouting skills. We blazed, mapped and marked a 30-mile trail from my hometown to the Scout Camp. I took responsibility for the first 15 miles and my buddy took responsibility for the second 15 for his Eagle project. We did it on weekends, which meant backpacking and camping as we progressed along our route. It involved some serious orienteering (90 degrees due east from town to camp and you pretty much had to maintain that heading going from point to point) although we had to detour around a humongous beaver dam. Then we had to get permissions from landowners. But imagine our pride when the District did a camporee called the "Crow Hike," which followed our trail. This was an area of NC that didn't have a lot of hiking trails.

One document consisting of two parts. And if you are insisting on hard signatures, then a signature page that includes both PRE and POST signatures. This way eliminates all the insertion and all that crap. You just scan a signature page when you are done (or take a photo of it) and add to the Workbook. But right now, we have a signature page embedded in the Proposal and a signature page embedded into the Report. Plus the contact info page, which seems totally superfluous to me. And do we need we really need a distinction between material and supplies (or whatever it is)? I'm almost fairly certain I could get the Proposal and the Report down to one page each (10 point). You ought to see the Eagle Reference Letter I did for the Council. It is a thing of beauty. Contains Oath and Law and space for comments. It's one page.

No. My post goes exactly to the three parts. It needs to be two. That is really the heart of the matter. That and digital vs paper. Anything that smacks of paper is step backward. Since we submit the proposals digitally in our district, you have people scanning signature pages and then trying to insert them into the PDF document, which I think is impossible unless you have Adobe's paid product. I don't think the free PDF version allows you insert pages. Plus, we require printed copies at the BOR. Just a cluster any way you look at it. And very few Scouts understand how to digitally compress a photo so that it's small enough to insert into the PDF, which means they just attach photos. And that turns what should be a 2 MB file into a 5 or 6 MB file, which is too large for some of the freeware email providers.

Does anyone know if folks from National follow this site? Here's the deal: It is time for BSA to seriously consider reformatting the Eagle Project Workbook. As an English major, a professional writer and an ex-Journalism teacher, I would give this form a D if someone turned it into me. It's confusing, muddled, lacks clarity and is difficult for many Scouts to fill out. Much of it is repetitive. It looks to me like a document that was simply added to over the years. Something put together by a committee with people chiming in "Let's add this...." For such an important part of an important award, we can do better. I could fix this thing in about a week and working with a computer person, we could come up with a PDF form that would actually work. I have signed many of these things as a Committee Chair. And I have reviewed many of them sitting on Eagle BORs. So I know a little bit of what I'm talking about. I am now working as a Life to Eagle coach for our troop. Sooo, BSA National, if your intent was to challenge the Scout by making the paperwork needlessly complex so the Trail to Eagle is that much harder, congratulations, you succeeded. Texas, do you hear me?

Terrible BOR. I serve on Eagle BORs and I would have stopped the guy questioning the parts of the badge after about two questions.

Lol. Great question. And I'm laughing because I remember a very specific BOR with a 16-year-old. It was for Second Class. We have about 100 kids in the troop, so I didn't know them all. All I knew was the next BOR was for Second Class. Well, in strolls this 16-year-old kid. We thought it was a mistake and we were checking the name on the IHR and everything. And the kid speaks up: "No you got it right. I'm here for the Second Class BOR." This kid had been a Scout since he was 11. AND he had over 75 miles hiking and over 40 nights camping. He had been to summer camp a couple of times and maybe even a Jamboree or Philmont - can't remember which. Plus, he had about a dozen MB. So the conversation starts and the kid says he never really had an interest in advancement. He just like to camp, hike, fish, hunt, etc. Just a real outdoorsy kid who apparently hated the advancement stuff and had found a home with an organization that would get him in the outdoors. We told him it was cool, but that we could certainly use his experience and age in leading younger Scouts. The Scout knew how to cook, first-aid, build fires, pitch tents, even knots and lashings. I think it was his last rank but he stayed active until he was 18. And as I said, he was a super kid. So different strokes for different folks.

Big fan of blue cards here. Great way to track what Scout has done and hasn't. Strange that many camps won't sign them or fill them out. Guess there are too many Scouts. Our advancement chair accepts electronic reporting from MB counselors and it's kinda sad, but not my call. Scout should have a blue card if he has an incomplete. When I serve on Eagle BORs, I get a real kick outta the Scouts who have kept all the their blue cards and put them in a notebook like baseball cards. They bring them to the BOR and invariably ask "Do you want to see my blue cards?" Most definitely, I reply.

Oh, and DEFINITELY keep MB counselors off the recharter. They do their application and send it to Council with their YPT. End of story. The reason is that next year's recharter will include all the MB counselors. And so will the year after that when their YPT has lapsed. And then you have to either take them off the recharter or chase them down for YPT renewal. Plus, I'm feeling sorta iffy on all these "in-house MB counselors" anyway, especially for Eagle MBs.

I just retired my committee chair post and having been through rechartering a few years with one of the larger troops on this forum (100+ Scouts), I can give you a couple pieces of advice: 1. Keep the adult roster as small as you can. I'll explain later. You need to have the SM, the CC, possibly the charter rep, and the ASMs. Most of committee members - treasurer, adv chair - are not registered leaders in our troop. Same for Patrol Advisors. However, I think our Life to Eagle guy is an ASM. 2. The list will grow mid-year if you have different adults leading Sea Base, Philmont, etc. ALL of those adults need to registered. I typically registered them mid-year for the reason I'm gonna list below. 3. All registered leaders must have current Youth Protection on file with Council or your recharter will be rejected. That means one adult who hasn't done his youth protection can hold up the re-charter of a 100-Scout troop - at least in our council. 4. Because we are one of the oldest "continuously chartered" troops in the U.S., getting the charter complete before the deadline was a big deal. Hence the small leadership roster. BTW, our troop dates back to 1917. Not the oldest, but pretty darn old. 5. Now, to me, Youth Protection was a different matter. I liked all adults who camped with us to have YPT, even if they are not registered leaders. I just didn't want that YPT holding up a recharter. I kept track of this on a separate spreadsheet. But the poster who said the SM shouldn't be handling this is exactly right. Frankly, I think rechartering is a CC's most important duty in addition to the BORs. No need for a SM to have to deal with that. Hope this helps.

This is a pretty good idea. A bit intense, but very important lessons are learned.

Nearby driving range? Probably. But the problem you have is when the other parents see you loading your sticks on the bus.