brianbuf

My tickets are finished, beads on their way, and I am starting a new project for 2007 that will take many many hours. Although I still have much time for scouting, I don't have any more extra time for the scouting boards. So to the delight of a few, I am "closing" my accounts here and others (essentially not checking or posting) and will be not renewing the hosting on www.savescouting.org For me, it is time for me to spend my extra "non-troop" scouting time in a different arena. Some here agreed and were very nice. Many here disagreed, but were cordial, scoutlike, and polite. Just a few here disagreed but were un-scoutlike. That is/was sad. Perhaps the highlights of my ticket here were 1. getting contacted by nationals in Irving and having a discussion about my ideas and opinions, 2. Receiving letters from member of the naitonal board discussing some of my ideas, 3. Finding out the BSA already has a committee doing what I was suggesting 4. Actually finishing my agreed upon work, 5. Implementing many new things into my troop, and seeing growth in numbers and participation, as well as a better overall experience. This is my final post here. I have learned much, bantered with a few, but appreciated most of you. Please don't ever question my motives... disagree with my methods yes, but I would put my concern and passion for a better scouting program in the ring wtih anyone. I hope you sensed that and at least thought about what I was trying to say. To all my friends and foes, carry on! YIS Brian Buffalo Patrol WE7-107-03-06

I Like the idea of a small ceremony.. (back on topic)... my concern was taking the spotlight off the boys. Maybe my TG and other leaders... Brian This has run its course, how do we get it locked?

Boy are we way off topic on this one. With all the tools of the internet it is pretty easy to find out who someone is.. heck this website logs IP addresses! On top of it, you have to register to get a name here. But there should never be any worries here, we are all good scouters, right? To satisfy all those who questioned me being at woodbadge, my course number was WE7-1XX-03-06. This has little to do with any topic I have ever posted. Thanks to all who have give me constructive ideas and share my singular concern about the year after year decline in scouting. Agree or disagree with my specific ideas, we all share the same belief that scouting is very important and needs to be in the lives of many boys... as many as possible.

Ed, great point, most of the focus needs to be local. But it makes you wonder what really has happened since 1998. I can understand the 3 g theory for some, but a bounce back should happen, right? How about this from above "There are so many other activities for boys today - swim teams, soccer, chess clubs, martial arts, band, music lessons, more summer camps (YMCA, Space Camp, etc...), more traveling teams in sports - playing year-round. Don't tell me the boys have more free time today, either. My 5th grade son has more homework now than I had in high school! In my youth, we played baseball and that was about it during the summer. We had lots of down time for just backyard play. I don't see that anymore." Is this new since 1998? Are kids that much more busy post 1998 than pre 1998 that it would influence numbers, some as much as 10.9% drop in a single year? Is this a valid contributor to a point that kids activities have increased magically post 1998 vs pre 1998 to have that huge of an new, extra affect it did not have before? Brian

ndlscout- that is so unfair. Yep, I just magically know about "remeber the titans" and "october sky" or the beads or the tickets or gilwell or the turk heads waggle or all the other things I reference. Back to Gilwell just came to me in a dream! And all the patrol names.. I just thought up Buffalo! Yes sirry bob... just a troll. never been to anything scouts. I just thought up the name woodbadge! come on, get real. Let me explain it this way... I live in a realitively tight knit community. I live and work and play and shop and run into people all day long and some are in scouting in leadership. I am very well known where I live and I just don't want anyone local to get hurt feelings because I am suggesting scouting look at itself to see if it needs to modernize. Heck, I don't know any of you on these threads and I feel some of you cause bodily harm to me if we were to meet in a dark alley! A few of you have been down right rude. Just imagine if people I know and have assoicated with for many years might feel if it was preceived that I wanted to change the program they love? (Many forget that the program is not about what they love, it is about what will reach and teach boys!). Heck no... call me a troll. But when they put that ax in the log withour course number... that is something I am not drapping before the world on these forums. Instead of posting your course numbers, would all of you post your real name? Or is that an indication that once a troll, always a troll?

Again, some very good comments, and some not so good. Lisabob... your post had nothing to do with my question. But if you must know, it is not what you speculate! I am friends with many in leadership here, and I am well known in the community. I don't want to offend or hurt the feelings of those I know and live around. But that is for another thread. Please stop mixing threads. Now, I would like to explore this comment: Our secret? We follow the program, have trained and committed adults, are boy led and provide a great program. We have boys flocking to us. Our experience can be repeated in every unit in town or the nation. Sorry, I just see the glass half full. Go back to your local unit and throw yourself into the program, "get it" and forget about changing things nationally. The program works for the vast majority of people and could for you if you quit being negative" Are you saying that the leaders pre 1998 were following the program, and the leaders post 1998 are not following the program? I see the glass half full also, but the glass is getting smaller each year.

Some of the previous threads have been all over multiple topics. To help have specific discussions, I wanted to ask all the veterans and other experts to basically explain this idea. It has been posted that BSA's last year of membership increase was around 1998 and has constantly been declining since. Whether it as 1998 or another year, that is not the question and is not the point. The point or question is this... what are we doing different or wrong NOW compared to what were the BSA leaders were doing 10 years ago (during the years of increase)? I had suggested that society and boys interests are drifting further away from an unchanged BSA and the BSA needs to look at the icons, uniform, and merit badge programs. I got beat up pretty bad by some who said that it is the training of leaders or other things. We have more trained leaders than ever before. So what is different about BSA now during the decline, than the BSA during the increase in membership years? I was not involved in leadership during the pre decrease years. Any explanations out there?

I appreciate most of the above input. A troll, no, I assure you I really did go to WB. Sorry I won't post details of my trip. Because I am not as good a writer as I would like to be, that ticket would be critized endlessly here... and my TG would be critized as well. Sorry. I have appreciated the positive and insightful comments, and have grown and modified my website and perceptions. However, there are some that have been very hostile. If I published my course number, it would be pretty darn easy to find out my name, my TG, my district commissioner, my council leaders, etc. And since no one but my TG knows about my website locally, this might cause some tension. I don't want to be on the outs with my leadership, so no I won't give my course number. Specifics... there are three specific recommendations listed on my website. With a call for the Irving leadership to study the issues more, like the Girl Scouts did for 2 years. But that has nothing to do with the specific question on this thread. Why bring it up here? Someone brought up the Boer War era... not to offend anyone, but just because I earned the beads does not mean I plan on wearing them. As previously said, I can't wear everything I ever earned (not necessarily just scouting, just generally. If I used that mode of thinking, my room would be full of every star I got from kindergarten through college and grad school... keeping every acolade out would make for an impassable bedroom... my wife would have to sleep on the couch!! You get awards and move on, in my house) Last, thanks for the suggestion of considering my TG. A great guy. When we next talk I will make sure he is ok with just mailing with no ceremony. If he has reservations, I will rethink this for his benefit, not mine.

thanks to all the posts... my tg did not tell me about the 6 month min.. perhaps if that applies he will wait a month or two to send them... it is almost 6 months already... he has not sent them yet. I was beat up abit for suggesting I may not wear the beads but put them in a drawer or with other awards. I simply was making a point I can't wear everything. Some of you would weigh an extra 300 lbs or more if you wore every single award ever received. Is $5000 spent and/or 300 hours invested above or below average to complete the tickets? I would rather not explain my trip abroad... the critics might tear up my words.

Boy, have people forgot this is a scouting forum that should examplify the best in people? Think about your comment about Publish my number so you know if I am for real? What type of comment is that? (The wb-XXX-XX or whatever they had on the log when they put the ax in it and said WB is now in session or whatever, that number? Nahh, I am making my participation up. I just guess that they do that.) And quite putting words in my mouth. Where did I say I was going to WEAR those beads? I completed my tickets, earned them, and want them to go with all the trinkets in my drawer. It seems you are some caught up with your preconceptions that you just assume things. Like I am going to WEAR my beads. That had nothing to do with my question. I was hoping for input, not wild, unthoughtout, and irrelvenant critism. Do better or don't post. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

After 300 hours and $5000 spent, I just completed my last ticket. (One of my tickets for those that question was to go study another culture for a few days out of the country. Just got back last night, hence the extra cost as I took my family with me). I wrote a post card from abroad to my leader to validate I was doing what my ticket had on it, and I was studying abroad. Instead of some ceremony, another WB, or even in front of my boys at my troops next court of honor, I just wrote on the last line "And now, since my tickets are completed, why don't you just stick my beads in the mail and save us all time." After it was mailed, I realized that I did not want to minialize the beads... I just don't need the spotlight or to take time away from the boys. Is this disrepectful? Is 300 documentable hours and $5000 spent enough to get the few critics who did not like my website to realize my leader's approval was not insane?

After 300 hours and $5000 spent, I just completed my last ticket. (One of my tickets for those that question was to go study another culture for a few days out of the country. Just got back last night, hence the extra cost as I took my family with me). I wrote a post card from abroad to my leader to validate I was doing what my ticket had on it, and I was studying abroad. Instead of some ceremony, another WB, or even in front of my boys at my troops next court of honor, I just wrote on the last line "And now, since my tickets are completed, why don't you just stick my beads in the mail and save us all time." After it was mailed, I realized that I did not want to minialize the beads... I just don't need the spotlight or to take time away from the boys. Is this disrepectful? Is 300 documentable hours and $5000 spent enough to get the few critics who did not like my website to realize my leader's approval was not insane?

MarkS- Where have you been all this time? We needed you on these forums informing us of this 2010 study! Instead of arguing about if the numbers are dropping, and if any change needs to happen, and essentially a few folks who are in scouting for themselves wanting to keep things the way they personally like things, you come up with the one answer I have been searching for. The BSA is getting it! If you are correct, they are looking at the reasons for decline, and making a plan to bring scouting to more kids. If that is correct, then I will go to bed tonight a very happy scouter. I am not claiming I had anything to do with it, or they will implement my concrete plans, I am just saying YAHOO! someone is seeing what I am seeing! If a corporation had losses like the BSA is having, the top brass would get warned by the board one year, and if the losses continued, they would be replaced with new staff. If they could not turn things around, a massive outside consulting firm might be brought into turn things around. Yet many folks on these boards just put their head in the sand and say we need better trained leaders or to work the program and don't see the numbers drop, drop, drop. If your claim is right, I think the future of scouting is brighter than ever. Who knows what they will come up with... but I am sure they will develope something that will reach more boys. I am going to clock out of this thread. Thanks Marks for the info. And to all a good night!

Eagle dad you wrote "The Girls Scouts have been changing their program for over 25 years trying to stop the bleeding. Values are one of those things that took a hit" Yet their website and news story says this is the first change for them in 30 years! How do you figure?

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

John in KC.. What conclussions am I jumping to? Just posted that on the local news last night there was a story about the G. Scouts changing their program. So I wen to their web site and they said that due to dropping enrollment they spent 2 years studing their program and changed it to "be relevant" to the girls they were serving. Then I simply ask if the BSA could learn something. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Before a ton of posters start comparing the difference between GSA and BSA, hold your keyboard. I am not saying they are the same. I am simply saying this: Here is one youth organization, after realizing they are loosing members, decided to approach their problem with a 2 year study, realized they needed "to be more relevant" to the youth of today, and made some changes. Would the BSA benefit by learning from this organizations actions? That is all. Don't read too much into it. Be very interesting article! Perhaps there are ways to reverse the 10.9% single year drop in Venturing and other multi-year drops!

This hit our local news tonight, and a search at this link below had the following story: http://www.girlscouts.org/news/media...out_pledge.asp From the October 11, 2006 edition of The Christian Science Monitor. That must have been a tough cookie to swallow. The Girl Scouts recently discovered that it needs to be more relevant to today's girls. But true to the scout promise ("help people at all times"), the nearly century-old group is adjusting to the new times. After more than two years of research and input from tens of thousands of scouts and nonscouts, volunteers and staff, Girl Scouts of the USA is undertaking its first overhaul in more than 30 years - and certainly its most wide-ranging....... (see link for more info). Wow, the girl scouts have seen a decline in membership (see article) so they are doing something about it. Should BSA, with their decline in membership, investigate what they could do to be MORE RELEVANT?

It seems you can not win with some folks here on the board. Some want proof, so I post the October numbers saying it probably won't format well, and someone beats me up cause they can not read it. DUh. Someone else can not give a clear web link to their source, and call those of us who do not know where to find their so called source basically uncredible. Evimori... I, like MANY, have squelched your notes so I can not comment. Explorers are down 10.9% in a single year. Yet all is well in happy valley. Keep on doing scouts the old way... and get different results? Is that what you guys are saying? Some beat up modern technology. Yet today's Boy's Life mag had a spread on cell phones that were video and MP3 players. At least Boys Life is touching on new, rad stuff to try to reach the modern boy. So, do we keep things the same and watch the ship sink further? Or stand behind BSA President Cronk and "make scouting relevant to the boys of today?"

Steve, you are right about the bickering and crap. This post was about the video. A darn good one at that. Some things need to be addressed, then we can close this thread. First, saying my numbers are off is not fair. These numbers are Novembers report direct from the BSA. So if the numbers are off, it is BSA, not me that are off. Second, so we had one month that may have spiked up, but for the year we are way down. Yep, I guess the entire basis for my website has evaportated.. sort of a silly remark, aint it. 10.9% decline in some areas. Wake up people! And no, what website is the national archives at? You fail to provide a source, then say anyone who does not know where it is has no credibility. That is silly as well. What is the site? Still waiting for Scoutnut to admit he attributed things to me I never said. Whereas with Mikki, if there was a single month increase fine... it is in the midst of a multiyear huge decline. That CAN NOT be disputed. Lets fix the problem and work with the new BSA President to make scouting "relevant to the boys of today." Why are you fighting the new president?

Miki and Brent... what are you guys talking about? Please post the link for the source you are quoting. 255,000 is more than Boys Life subscriptions went down over a multi-year period. If there was a one month enrolment spike, then I stand corrected. If so, it would be washed away by quarter after quarter declines. I am not making this up, below is Octobers report! Anyone can say anything. (Example: The Methodists and Mormons are pulling out of scouting, which can be said, but it ain't true) I have posted the report here. What is the link to your source? Where is this archive you talk about? My "buddy" has posted numbers here: http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=423 He has regular reports, and is kind enough to forward them to me. I get the monthly numbers from the national report showing regional and national numbers and most numbers are DOWN, as each quarter is. I am afraid that the formating will not come across well, but here is the report. READ IT AND WEEP. NATIONAL MEMBERSHIP/PARTICIPATION REPORT RS 0582 October 2006 PAGE 1 TOTAL TOTAL TOTAL NORTHEAST REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED SOUTHERN REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED CENTRAL REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG CHG YEAR YEAR CHG YEAR YEAR CHG YEAR YEAR BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA TIGER CUBS 37,415 37,542 0.3% TIGER CUBS 74,614 76,954 3.1% TIGER CUBS 66,582 68,235 2.5% CUB SCOUTS 141,740 138,021 -2.6% CUB SCOUTS 232,648 226,101 -2.8% CUB SCOUTS 208,930 202,729 -3.0% WEBELOS SCOUTS 133,849 127,578 -4.7% WEBELOS SCOUTS 199,699 184,697 -7.5% WEBELOS SCOUTS 183,703 172,345 -6.2% TOTAL CUB AGE 313,004 303,141 -3.2% 8,434 8,300 -1.6% TOTAL CUB AGE 506,961 487,752 -3.8% 14,042 13,560 -3.4% TOTAL CUB AGE 459,215 443,309 -3.5% 12,745 12,537 -1.6% BOY SCOUTS 179,667 174,940 -2.6% 7,890 7,735 -2.0% BOY SCOUTS 230,608 217,768 -5.6% 11,505 11,037 -4.1% BOY SCOUTS 201,650 194,258 -3.7% 9,851 9,542 -3.1% VARSITY SCOUTS 1,858 1,415 -23.8% 210 194 -7.6% VARSITY SCOUTS 3,190 3,306 3.6% 526 498 -5.3% VARSITY SCOUTS 2,337 2,248 -3.8% 351 332 -5.4% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 181,525 176,355 -2.8% 8,100 7,929 -2.1% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 233,798 221,074 -5.4% 12,031 11,535 -4.1% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 203,987 196,506 -3.7% 10,202 9,874 -3.2% VENTURERS 29,331 29,797 1.6% 2,360 2,348 -0.5% VENTURERS 59,355 49,710 -16.2% 4,312 3,911 -9.3% VENTURERS 38,937 37,822 -2.9% 3,403 3,270 -3.9% TOTAL MEMBERS 523,860 509,293 -2.8% 18,894 18,577 -1.7% TOTAL MEMBERS 800,114 758,536 -5.2% 30,385 29,006 -4.5% TOTAL MEMBERS 702,139 677,637 -3.5% 26,350 25,681 -2.5% LEARNING FOR LIFE LEARNING FOR LIFE LEARNING FOR LIFE ELEMENTARY 39,874 31,050 -22.1% 217 213 -1.8% ELEMENTARY 62,012 99,960 61.2% 367 500 36.2% ELEMENTARY 32,807 47,544 44.9% 307 418 36.2% MID./JR HI. 31,260 24,388 -22.0% 227 187 -17.6% MID./JR HI. 15,115 28,032 85.5% 133 231 73.7% MID./JR HI. 12,006 15,912 32.5% 165 220 33.3% HIGH SCHOOL 59,899 45,995 -23.2% 142 123 -13.4% HIGH SCHOOL 38,695 45,423 17.4% 105 164 56.2% HIGH SCHOOL 45,810 46,833 2.2% 234 286 22.2% EXPLORERS 25,049 24,721 -1.3% 1,483 1,441 -2.8% EXPLORERS 56,101 54,310 -3.2% 2,298 2,181 -5.1% EXPLORERS 36,125 35,511 -1.7% 1,941 1,826 -5.9% SPEC. NEEDS 12,730 7,492 -41.1% 173 126 -27.2% SPEC. NEEDS 9,512 9,534 0.2% 314 355 13.1% SPEC. NEEDS 7,977 7,379 -7.5% 231 200 -13.4% TOTAL LFL/EXP 168,812 133,646 -20.8% 2,242 2,090 -6.8% TOTAL LFL/EXP 181,435 237,259 30.8% 3,217 3,431 6.7% TOTAL LFL/EXP 134,725 153,179 13.7% 2,878 2,950 2.5% TOTAL YOUTH 692,672 642,939 -7.2% 21,136 20,667 -2.2% TOTAL YOUTH 981,549 995,795 1.5% 33,602 32,437 -3.5% TOTAL YOUTH 836,864 830,816 -0.7% 29,228 28,631 -2.0% TOTAL TOTAL WESTERN REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED NATIONAL REGISTERED YOUTH UNITS REGISTERED LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG LAST YEAR THIS YEAR % LAST THIS % CHG CHG YEAR YEAR CHG YEAR YEAR BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA TIGER CUBS 22,315 22,884 2.5% TIGER CUBS 200,926 205,615 2.3% CUB SCOUTS 179,376 180,366 0.6% CUB SCOUTS 762,694 747,217 -2.0% WEBELOS SCOUTS 125,164 126,103 0.8% WEBELOS SCOUTS 642,415 610,723 -4.9% TOTAL CUB AGE 326,855 329,353 0.8% 14,258 14,486 1.6% TOTAL CUB AGE 1,606,035 1,563,555 -2.6% 49,479 48,883 -1.2% BOY SCOUTS 227,952 227,685 -0.1% 12,776 12,909 1.0% BOY SCOUTS 839,877 814,651 -3.0% 42,022 41,223 -1.9% VARSITY SCOUTS 52,070 51,635 -0.8% 6,934 7,024 1.3% VARSITY SCOUTS 59,455 58,604 -1.4% 8,021 8,048 0.3% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 280,022 279,320 -0.3% 19,710 19,933 1.1% TOTAL SCOUT AGE 899,332 873,255 -2.9% 50,043 49,271 -1.5% VENTURERS 88,757 89,365 0.7% 8,785 8,878 1.1% VENTURERS 216,380 206,694 -4.5% 18,860 18,407 -2.4% TOTAL MEMBERS 695,634 698,038 0.3% 42,753 43,297 1.3% TOTAL MEMBERS 2,721,747 2,643,504 -2.9% 118,382 116,561 -1.5% LEARNING FOR LIFE LEARNING FOR LIFE ELEMENTARY 72,183 79,118 9.6% 296 358 20.9% ELEMENTARY 206,876 257,672 24.6% 1,187 1,489 25.4% MID./JR HI. 8,157 13,945 71.0% 81 88 8.6% MID./JR HI. 66,538 82,277 23.7% 606 726 19.8% HIGH SCHOOL 57,521 59,304 3.1% 150 149 -0.7% HIGH SCHOOL 201,925 197,555 -2.2% 631 722 14.4% EXPLORERS 29,965 30,565 2.0% 1,548 1,595 3.0% EXPLORERS 147,240 145,107 -1.4% 7,270 7,043 -3.1% SPEC. NEEDS 6,346 6,545 3.1% 108 111 2.8% SPEC. NEEDS 36,565 30,950 -15.4% 826 792 -4.1% TOTAL LFL/EXP 174,172 189,477 8.8% 2,183 2,301 5.4% TOTAL LFL/EXP 659,144 713,561 8.3% 10,520 10,772 2.4% TOTAL YOUTH 869,806 887,515 2.0% 44,936 45,598 1.5% TOTAL YOUTH 3,380,891 3,357,065 -0.7% 128,902 127,333 -1.2% TOT_MBRSHP_COUNCIL_RPT_REG 11/02/06 11:25

Miki wrote "Brian, Membership went up 255,000+ in the quarter ending September. Therefore, it's "not dropping like a rock" That is far from the truth. I received national and membership numbers from a good scouter who is pretty high up in the organziation. Last year that had any increase national was 1998. I have posted the national numbers on my website, on the bottom of the page after regional numbers. Right there in black and white. Please just don't throw out numbers you have made up. It detracts from the discussion, and the honesty thing. Fuzzybear, thanks. I realize many disagree, but thanks for noticing that I actually care about reaching boys and making scouting "relevant to the boys of today." (as the new President of BSA said).

Gee, you guys have convinced me that the direction scouting is going is somehow going to lead to reaching more boys. Unsure still how that is going to happen since membership numbers are dropping like a rock, but if we keep on doing what we have kept on doing, why, perhaps magically we will get different results than what we have been.... hum.. I don't think so. Sure, we all love the old ways of scouting. But scouting should not be about what we, adults, old timers, whatever... happen to personally like. I am for modernizing the methods WHILE STILL KEEPING the values and lessons. Why? Because I think that the BSA program will reach more kids that way. And Lord knows in this day and age we need more kids in scouting, not less. So go ahead and just maitain the status quo and watch the numbers continue to drop, quarter after quarter. Blame untrained leaders, although there are more than ever before. Blame competing activities, although kids have more free time than ever in the history of the USA. Blame parental apathy. Blame Brianbuf. And don't work to make "scouting relevant to the kids of today." We wouldn't want to reverse the multi-year membership decline. No sirry bob... it would make scouting different from my 50 years in the program and I am too selfish to realize that scouting is not about me! Status Quo all the way... and somehow we will get different results. You guys have finally convinced me of the errors of my ways. We can rely on magic or a miracle to get the program to more boys instead of less each year. Thanks to you all! YIS, Brianbuf

Scout nut, Wow, way to dodge the issue here! So, did you appologize for lying about what I claimed somewhere in there? As far as I see it, you are setting up a smoke screen. The bottom line is you put forth a claim I never made. (see above post by me). Please come clean with me and all the other readers. You essentially are lying about what I said. And I requested a public appology. Waiting continues scoutnut.

"Brian, What's your gripe with neckerchiefs?" I'll address that later... but very briefly... it is an icon from an era long gone.. and it contributes to what one kid called "the dork factor." What other growing youth organization uses neckerchiefs? More on that later. Lets wait to see if Scoutnut comes clean with me here.