brianbuf

My tickets are finished, beads on their way, and I am starting a new project for 2007 that will take many many hours. Although I still have much time for scouting, I don't have any more extra time for the scouting boards. So to the delight of a few, I am "closing" my accounts here and others (essentially not checking or posting) and will be not renewing the hosting on www.savescouting.org For me, it is time for me to spend my extra "non-troop" scouting time in a different arena. Some here agreed and were very nice. Many here disagreed, but were cordial, scoutlike, and polite. Just a few here disagreed but were un-scoutlike. That is/was sad. Perhaps the highlights of my ticket here were 1. getting contacted by nationals in Irving and having a discussion about my ideas and opinions, 2. Receiving letters from member of the naitonal board discussing some of my ideas, 3. Finding out the BSA already has a committee doing what I was suggesting 4. Actually finishing my agreed upon work, 5. Implementing many new things into my troop, and seeing growth in numbers and participation, as well as a better overall experience. This is my final post here. I have learned much, bantered with a few, but appreciated most of you. Please don't ever question my motives... disagree with my methods yes, but I would put my concern and passion for a better scouting program in the ring wtih anyone. I hope you sensed that and at least thought about what I was trying to say. To all my friends and foes, carry on! YIS Brian Buffalo Patrol WE7-107-03-06

I Like the idea of a small ceremony.. (back on topic)... my concern was taking the spotlight off the boys. Maybe my TG and other leaders... Brian This has run its course, how do we get it locked?

Boy are we way off topic on this one. With all the tools of the internet it is pretty easy to find out who someone is.. heck this website logs IP addresses! On top of it, you have to register to get a name here. But there should never be any worries here, we are all good scouters, right? To satisfy all those who questioned me being at woodbadge, my course number was WE7-1XX-03-06. This has little to do with any topic I have ever posted. Thanks to all who have give me constructive ideas and share my singular concern about the year after year decline in scouting. Agree or disagree with my specific ideas, we all share the same belief that scouting is very important and needs to be in the lives of many boys... as many as possible.

Ed, great point, most of the focus needs to be local. But it makes you wonder what really has happened since 1998. I can understand the 3 g theory for some, but a bounce back should happen, right? How about this from above "There are so many other activities for boys today - swim teams, soccer, chess clubs, martial arts, band, music lessons, more summer camps (YMCA, Space Camp, etc...), more traveling teams in sports - playing year-round. Don't tell me the boys have more free time today, either. My 5th grade son has more homework now than I had in high school! In my youth, we played baseball and that was about it during the summer. We had lots of down time for just backyard play. I don't see that anymore." Is this new since 1998? Are kids that much more busy post 1998 than pre 1998 that it would influence numbers, some as much as 10.9% drop in a single year? Is this a valid contributor to a point that kids activities have increased magically post 1998 vs pre 1998 to have that huge of an new, extra affect it did not have before? Brian

ndlscout- that is so unfair. Yep, I just magically know about "remeber the titans" and "october sky" or the beads or the tickets or gilwell or the turk heads waggle or all the other things I reference. Back to Gilwell just came to me in a dream! And all the patrol names.. I just thought up Buffalo! Yes sirry bob... just a troll. never been to anything scouts. I just thought up the name woodbadge! come on, get real. Let me explain it this way... I live in a realitively tight knit community. I live and work and play and shop and run into people all day long and some are in scouting in leadership. I am very well known where I live and I just don't want anyone local to get hurt feelings because I am suggesting scouting look at itself to see if it needs to modernize. Heck, I don't know any of you on these threads and I feel some of you cause bodily harm to me if we were to meet in a dark alley! A few of you have been down right rude. Just imagine if people I know and have assoicated with for many years might feel if it was preceived that I wanted to change the program they love? (Many forget that the program is not about what they love, it is about what will reach and teach boys!). Heck no... call me a troll. But when they put that ax in the log withour course number... that is something I am not drapping before the world on these forums. Instead of posting your course numbers, would all of you post your real name? Or is that an indication that once a troll, always a troll?

Again, some very good comments, and some not so good. Lisabob... your post had nothing to do with my question. But if you must know, it is not what you speculate! I am friends with many in leadership here, and I am well known in the community. I don't want to offend or hurt the feelings of those I know and live around. But that is for another thread. Please stop mixing threads. Now, I would like to explore this comment: Our secret? We follow the program, have trained and committed adults, are boy led and provide a great program. We have boys flocking to us. Our experience can be repeated in every unit in town or the nation. Sorry, I just see the glass half full. Go back to your local unit and throw yourself into the program, "get it" and forget about changing things nationally. The program works for the vast majority of people and could for you if you quit being negative" Are you saying that the leaders pre 1998 were following the program, and the leaders post 1998 are not following the program? I see the glass half full also, but the glass is getting smaller each year.

Some of the previous threads have been all over multiple topics. To help have specific discussions, I wanted to ask all the veterans and other experts to basically explain this idea. It has been posted that BSA's last year of membership increase was around 1998 and has constantly been declining since. Whether it as 1998 or another year, that is not the question and is not the point. The point or question is this... what are we doing different or wrong NOW compared to what were the BSA leaders were doing 10 years ago (during the years of increase)? I had suggested that society and boys interests are drifting further away from an unchanged BSA and the BSA needs to look at the icons, uniform, and merit badge programs. I got beat up pretty bad by some who said that it is the training of leaders or other things. We have more trained leaders than ever before. So what is different about BSA now during the decline, than the BSA during the increase in membership years? I was not involved in leadership during the pre decrease years. Any explanations out there?

I appreciate most of the above input. A troll, no, I assure you I really did go to WB. Sorry I won't post details of my trip. Because I am not as good a writer as I would like to be, that ticket would be critized endlessly here... and my TG would be critized as well. Sorry. I have appreciated the positive and insightful comments, and have grown and modified my website and perceptions. However, there are some that have been very hostile. If I published my course number, it would be pretty darn easy to find out my name, my TG, my district commissioner, my council leaders, etc. And since no one but my TG knows about my website locally, this might cause some tension. I don't want to be on the outs with my leadership, so no I won't give my course number. Specifics... there are three specific recommendations listed on my website. With a call for the Irving leadership to study the issues more, like the Girl Scouts did for 2 years. But that has nothing to do with the specific question on this thread. Why bring it up here? Someone brought up the Boer War era... not to offend anyone, but just because I earned the beads does not mean I plan on wearing them. As previously said, I can't wear everything I ever earned (not necessarily just scouting, just generally. If I used that mode of thinking, my room would be full of every star I got from kindergarten through college and grad school... keeping every acolade out would make for an impassable bedroom... my wife would have to sleep on the couch!! You get awards and move on, in my house) Last, thanks for the suggestion of considering my TG. A great guy. When we next talk I will make sure he is ok with just mailing with no ceremony. If he has reservations, I will rethink this for his benefit, not mine.

thanks to all the posts... my tg did not tell me about the 6 month min.. perhaps if that applies he will wait a month or two to send them... it is almost 6 months already... he has not sent them yet. I was beat up abit for suggesting I may not wear the beads but put them in a drawer or with other awards. I simply was making a point I can't wear everything. Some of you would weigh an extra 300 lbs or more if you wore every single award ever received. Is $5000 spent and/or 300 hours invested above or below average to complete the tickets? I would rather not explain my trip abroad... the critics might tear up my words.

Boy, have people forgot this is a scouting forum that should examplify the best in people? Think about your comment about Publish my number so you know if I am for real? What type of comment is that? (The wb-XXX-XX or whatever they had on the log when they put the ax in it and said WB is now in session or whatever, that number? Nahh, I am making my participation up. I just guess that they do that.) And quite putting words in my mouth. Where did I say I was going to WEAR those beads? I completed my tickets, earned them, and want them to go with all the trinkets in my drawer. It seems you are some caught up with your preconceptions that you just assume things. Like I am going to WEAR my beads. That had nothing to do with my question. I was hoping for input, not wild, unthoughtout, and irrelvenant critism. Do better or don't post. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

After 300 hours and $5000 spent, I just completed my last ticket. (One of my tickets for those that question was to go study another culture for a few days out of the country. Just got back last night, hence the extra cost as I took my family with me). I wrote a post card from abroad to my leader to validate I was doing what my ticket had on it, and I was studying abroad. Instead of some ceremony, another WB, or even in front of my boys at my troops next court of honor, I just wrote on the last line "And now, since my tickets are completed, why don't you just stick my beads in the mail and save us all time." After it was mailed, I realized that I did not want to minialize the beads... I just don't need the spotlight or to take time away from the boys. Is this disrepectful? Is 300 documentable hours and $5000 spent enough to get the few critics who did not like my website to realize my leader's approval was not insane?

After 300 hours and $5000 spent, I just completed my last ticket. (One of my tickets for those that question was to go study another culture for a few days out of the country. Just got back last night, hence the extra cost as I took my family with me). I wrote a post card from abroad to my leader to validate I was doing what my ticket had on it, and I was studying abroad. Instead of some ceremony, another WB, or even in front of my boys at my troops next court of honor, I just wrote on the last line "And now, since my tickets are completed, why don't you just stick my beads in the mail and save us all time." After it was mailed, I realized that I did not want to minialize the beads... I just don't need the spotlight or to take time away from the boys. Is this disrepectful? Is 300 documentable hours and $5000 spent enough to get the few critics who did not like my website to realize my leader's approval was not insane?

MarkS- Where have you been all this time? We needed you on these forums informing us of this 2010 study! Instead of arguing about if the numbers are dropping, and if any change needs to happen, and essentially a few folks who are in scouting for themselves wanting to keep things the way they personally like things, you come up with the one answer I have been searching for. The BSA is getting it! If you are correct, they are looking at the reasons for decline, and making a plan to bring scouting to more kids. If that is correct, then I will go to bed tonight a very happy scouter. I am not claiming I had anything to do with it, or they will implement my concrete plans, I am just saying YAHOO! someone is seeing what I am seeing! If a corporation had losses like the BSA is having, the top brass would get warned by the board one year, and if the losses continued, they would be replaced with new staff. If they could not turn things around, a massive outside consulting firm might be brought into turn things around. Yet many folks on these boards just put their head in the sand and say we need better trained leaders or to work the program and don't see the numbers drop, drop, drop. If your claim is right, I think the future of scouting is brighter than ever. Who knows what they will come up with... but I am sure they will develope something that will reach more boys. I am going to clock out of this thread. Thanks Marks for the info. And to all a good night!

Eagle dad you wrote "The Girls Scouts have been changing their program for over 25 years trying to stop the bleeding. Values are one of those things that took a hit" Yet their website and news story says this is the first change for them in 30 years! How do you figure?

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)