Brewmeister

Perhaps the answer would be to do away with Rank altogether? Heresy!

I was thinking the same thing...the whole aims and methods thing, and being more than just a camping club that hands out cloth patches from time to time.

It depends what the OP is asking the question for...just a general topic of discussion or to make some other point. When we go camping with our family I haul my camp behind me on 4 wheels and 2 axels. I set up in a campground and consider that camping but I don't think the scouts would look too fondly on that. So sure, for kicks and grins, anything is camping that you want it to be. Tent, no tent, hammock, yurt, natural shelter, cave, retired submarine, cabin, popup, trailer, hybrid, class A motorhome....But if you are looking to a specific scout objective, look to the written guidelines if they exist.

Doesn't really fit the best under web but it's close enough. Do you have any recommendations for a designer type program to use to create an electronic newsletter? Obviously there's lots of high powered stuff out there, but I am trying to find something that would be readily available (web or other) and low cost, and usable by new people as they come on line within the unit to take over the newsletter.

The issue of securing volunteers is good fodder for discussion beyond the drop and go question. But again, if it is an important issue to you, as the unit leader, that you have parental involvement at that level, you need to decide whether you are going to put forth the effort to get that involvement and if you don't get it what you are going to do (step down or live with it). There are many methods that work for getting more volunteers and it is a solution that tends to build upon itself (i.e., more volunteers lead to more volunteers). But, if your unit has a culture of being a one-person show and parents are willing to quit rather than be involved, you may, as ScoutNut correctly points out, have more fundamental issues that need to shake out. I understand the desire to stick with something and not see it fail, but if you are truly the only adult who cares about and is willing to put time into Scouting within your unit, perhaps that is a sign.

I think it's pretty well defined in the Camping merit badge requirements, although I would go so far as to say that sleeping in the open air (i.e., w/o a shelter) or in a shelter of the scout's own creation that is not necessarily a "tent you've helped pitch" (i.e., wilderness survival) would obviously qualify.

Of course that was me. Was I talking about you?

Ah, now I see that this was actually spun from a different thread, and in that thread I did comment. But alas, I did not make the comment I am mentioned as supposedly saying... So I'm not sure if that allegation is related to fumes in the basement or other malady...but it matters not...

If it's important to you or bothering you then put your foot down. Call the parents to come back and pick up the boy, cancel the meeting, or quit altogether. You're a volunteer and nobody can take advantage of you without your permission.

Um, "Base," I never said that, so you must have me confused with someone else. Edit: I just checked the "bragging sm" thread and I didn't even comment there. I think the fumes from the basement furnace are getting to you...check your CO detector...(This message has been edited by Brewmeister)

Well said. Chapter XXI. "How to criticize every other unit in your area as a parlor troop that produces paper Eagles while thumping your chest about how your unit is the only one with the rigor to produce true scouts worthy to be sons of Baden Powell."(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

What a sad and cynical little group we have here.

I already answered that specific scenario regarding awarding pins, ScoutNut. As to "not allowing" scouts, now that is just ridiculous, and not the usual level of discourse I see from you. No need for it. And no, the pin is not that important, which is why I would not take a hard-line view toward tying the awarding of it to rank, and instead give a September-joining tiger the opportunity to receive all 4 color pins, which is in line with written guidance around it as has been stated here several times. Just give 'em the pin for goodness sake. Seems like something ridiculous to have a brouhaha over.(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

I understand your reasoning ScoutNut, but I disagree with your interpretation of the level-specific nature of the award and do not believe it reflects BSA guidance or practice. We are going to continue to administer the awarding of this pin in accordance with the guidance that can be found in BSA-published literature and elsewhere which states that "Since the goal of this award is for packs to continue through the summer, the pin should match up with the Cub Scouts last rank, not the one they are working on for the next year."

Except the summertime pin is not a rank award. With all due respect to differences of opinion here, I think many people are overlooking the fact that this is not the Eagle badge. We are talking a summer activity pin for Tigers. It is essentially a "fun" pin. I don't know why you are trying to find ways to not make it fun. And if you want to take it seriously, then by all means do and follow the written procedure for the pin which allow awarding the Tiger pin after the Tiger year is technically completed. Either way gets you to the same result--benefitting the boys, who the program is for. Relax.....(This message has been edited by Brewmeister)

A boy who registers as a Tiger (or any other level) in September, is out of luck earning the Summertime award for the previous summer when he was not yet a Cub Scout. Sorry ScoutNut, I disagree because it makes no sense to me to have an award that the majority of Packs, who do their recruiting in the fall, can never award to their boys. We're going to continue to let our boys have the opportunity to earn all 4 color pins, even though they are technically no longer Tigers when they are working on their orange pin. To me that is more "logical" than awarding them a red, green, and 2 blues over 4 summers.

But that does not address the issue of packs who have tigers join in June and september. If first graders work on the tiger pin, there is no way for September tigers to ever earn the pin. It's no additional record keeping to do it the way I describe for those packs, just a mark in the spreadsheet for who has what. It seems like we're overcomplicating a pin that isn't required for any rank award...just do what makes sense for the boy and unit to encourage participation in summer events.

The first lesson in any cub scout leader training should be "how to delegate effectively." I will agree that troop leaders tend not to want to go back to the pack level because of the work involved. I also think it is because they are "done" mentally in dealing with very young boys. Boy scouts, particularly in an outdoor active program, attracts a leader with different interests than the cub scout level, particularly the early artsy-crafty years. Good grief, I'm sounding like Kudu. Another factor in my observation is how career boy scouters view cub scouting...let's just say it's often not very favorably. They have to live with it, that doesn't mean they have to like it. Which is ironic, if you think about it, since so many troops have minimal recruiting outside of cub scouts and are dependent on crossovers for survival. "Send us your webelos but don't bother us until then," in other words.

I'm in between session weekends and I still don't think I understand the program...management theory smashed together with Scout philosophy and methodology. Hopefully it makes sense soon...

Based on our experience we don't do spring recruiting and as a result don't have new boys in June. However if we did, I'd probably give him the tiger pin, then have him earn the blue pin while the other boys were still on orange. Hope that makes sense. Like I said the award really doesn't fit perfectly into a program that changes ranks at the end of the school year, so my philosophy would be to give the boys opportunity to earn all 4 pin colors if they participated in 4 years of summer programs regardless of whether their first summer was as a brand new tiger or newly graduated tiger.

Because there are only four color pins, it makes sense to award them for the level the boy is already done with. That's the way we did it. It is a goofy award that doesn't synch up perfectly with the rest of the program, but it is what it is. So wolf scouts receive their tiger summertime pin at the first pack meeting in september. For packs that do not recruit in spring, there is also no other way for scouts to get tiger pins.

This sounds like a great way to promote our company. You have me totally convinced! Who do I send money to? Do you take checks and credit cards or do you prefer cash in the mail?

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" --George Carlin

This a funny forum...we spend a lot of electronic ink pining for the good ol' days of scouting--you know, back when the average age of an Eagle was 14, rather than the 17+ it is today...

Comparing girl scouts to cub scouts is different than comparing girl scouts to boy scouts. The structure of a girl scout troop stays together rather than switching in 6th grade. It would be like a tiger den staying together until graduation. Organizationally girl scouts focuses heavily on the younger girls, not just in recruiting but in programming. I don't have figures but my gut feeling is there is a more significant drop off of girls as they age in the program compared to boys. Also, girl scouts seems to go through more program changes and fiddling with its core beliefs and mission whereas the BSA knows what it is, comparatively speaking. There also seems to be more paid staff and investment in physical office facilities and comparatively minimal investment in camp or other facilities for the girls. But again that's just a gut feeling. A properly functioning girl scout troop of older girls, however, can be very much like a patrol, or perhaps a venturing crew. A poorly functioning, top-down troop will not last long, just like any dis functional unit in any other organization.