Brewmeister

Thanks for all the advice, as wildly differing as it may be I agree a shakedown hike is in order. But even that we must prep for. I also agree the boys should be making the decisions--but they need to know the options and considerations beyond what's in the handbook and field guide. So this is all quite useful stuff. I do like the idea of getting by with what we have, and making minimal investment in what we do not (i.e., starting with tablets rather than a filtration pump). However if they have a miserable trip they may not put it on the agenda any time soon and that would be too bad. On the other hand I have rarely seen boys have a bad time in the outdoors. I have been talking to another troop in the state but it is hard to reconcile their experience with our own since they are more well-heeled and the families bought a lot of individual gear. But they are a good source of advice for the type of gear and considerations most relevant to this climate. Keep the responses coming and I will keep digesting them.

A little confused on the stoves...we have the classic 2-burner green Colemans. Are y'all saying to carry a few of those along?

I like the idea of a small or shake-down outing. However, "Patrols don't need specialized cook gear to start. Take regular kitchen gear -- it cooks fine." We have the ubiquitous Coleman 2-burner stoves. Not sure how to adapt our regular kitchen year. Beavah, I am at your latitude and I've heard about the fuel issues in winter. JM--I'm a hanger and my setup does fascinate the boys...not sure if they're willing to take the leap. Although I did score my son a Hennessey Scout model from their clearance sale for $59, tarp included!

The situation for our troop is we only have plop camping gear at present. Currently, the troop provides cooking gear, stoves, and a dining fly. The boys provide tents and personal gear. The boys are looking into a backpacking trip for next summer. Right now the length of the trip is up in the air. The question I have is how to outfit the troop without the troop and the boys going broke. To go to the extreme, if each boy had a unique set of equipment (stove, cookware, tent, backpack, etc.) it could easily run $500 or more. The main questions are: What equipment do they currently have that can be used, even if it's not ideal to start with? If they can get by with something, great--on the other hand if it's going to make for a miserable trip to have the wrong gear... When new equipment is needed, what is the appropriate amount of types of equipment needed; i.e., number of stoves per boy? I've collected a lot of insight from this forum about backpacking--thank you. I appreciate your comments on this summary: ITEMS THE TROOP WILL PROBABLY BUY STOVES: ($30 each for basic pocket-rocket, going up from there) The ratio of boys-per-stove appears to be about 4:1. AGREE/DISAGREE? Jetboil is limiting because of the proprietary system/fuel Canister fuel stoves are the cheapest and most versatile, but fuel costs are higher. Gas stoves have lower fuel costs and less fuel canister volume to carry, but you need to be very careful with transporting fuel No one has much experience with the volcano/wood-fuel type stoves. Why? COOKING GEAR: $$?? Several of the stove manufacturers offer all in one/stackable systems but they are generally geared toward solo backpackers and seem to be more expensive than buying separate cookware. What is the minimal amount/type of cookware needed? WATER FILTRATION: $75-100 each The ratio of boys-to-filtration systems is????? Filtering systems vs. steripenseach have advantages and drawbacks. Steripens do not filter sediment/etc. If you were to start from scratch, what's the best choice for a group? TARPS/DINING FLY? What type, etc. ITEMS THE BOYS WILL PROBABLY BUY TENT Right now the boys bring their own tents. Some boys may have smaller tents that they can use but many use large family tents currently. Boys can buddy up, but which buddy bears the cost of the tent? BACKPACK No way around the cost of this one and the boys will need to buy one that is best for them. SLEEPING BAG For summer backpacking, what can the boys get by with? What is the practicality of using a department-store bag a boy might already have?

[T]hose are the people who file lawsuits Well, at least we agree on something (the name of the freedom from religion folks). As to the acceptance of godlessness, sodomy, and other perversion, we will have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunatley unless you never leave your son's side there is nothing you can do to have complete assurance of anything. Evil is something that must constantly be fought. What I will say is that from my experience as a youth sports coach, Lego League coach, and awareness of Girl Scout protocols, the BSA's YPT guidelines are the best I have seen. I still haven't given up on humanity.

As for "freedom from religion", that is one of those "labels" that I think don't contributes much to a conversation. In some cases it is used as a "self-label" and in others (including your post) it is used as a derogatory label. I'll leave the labeling to you. Well, that's the term that the folks here who get the crches taken down and whatnot call themselves. Scouting is an organization that requires a belief in God to join. So if you come in here proclaiming otherwise it is reasonable to accept vociferous disagreement. Being "tolerant" of someone's beliefs does not mean I have to agree with them nor refrain from expressing my opinion on them. After all, I don't wander into the atheism or NAMBLA forums telling them they really should rethink what they believe in.

Actually, most atheists I have known do not denigrate the beliefs of others You must not know any of those "freedom from religion" folks...

A very predictable response, yet you are making another assumption in your reply...that I was not around then. That's the great thing about the Internet...but you are no stranger to changing aliases now, are you? I believe in something bigger than myself, and I don't mean BJ Raji. The problem with believing in atheism is the odd combination of nihilism and self-loathing that comes with it. As a result, believers in athiesm have to spend time denigrating the beliefs of theists--it's totally predictable.

Who said I was Christian? That's a pretty big assumption on your part. On the other hand, we know that you are anti-God and pro-sodomy, which always makes me wonder what you are doing on a scouting forum other than to jab at people who don't agree with you.

Ah, Merlin, go suck an egg. You can pretend you evolved into the most complex being on the planet out of some primordial ooze and random proteins that happened to be lying around if it makes you feel better about your meaningless existence.

Denying that their is a God is as foolish as saying that all those great inventions BSA24 mentioned simply arose from the ground over time. You cannot honestly look at the complexity of creation and deny that it was created.

peregrinator, I'm just a CC trying to inform my leaders of something most of them didn't know about until yesterday. I'm not a lawyer. I'm sure there's lots in there people can nitpick, and maybe even a grammar error if you look hard enough. Like I said, FWIW...

It's the "year A" and "year b" plans. Here's the a: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/multicultural/pdf/523-006_web.pdf

FWIW, this is what I had sent our pack leaders: By now youve probably seen the front page article in the XXXXXXX about the court ordered release of the BSAs Ineligible Volunteer files (what the media is calling the perversion files.) In case you havent been following this, here is the BSAs official release on this: http://www.scouting.org/Media/PressReleases/2012/20121018.aspx Thats a lot to digest so let me give you my take on this because it is a situation I have been following. The files in question span the years 1965 to 1985, and mistakes were made in the handling of some cases. As you know, things were much different 50 years ago also. We have made many positive changes as a society as we have come to recognize, report, and protect children against abuse. Those changes have not only been reflected in the BSA, but the BSA has been ahead of the curve in our Youth Protection Program, as you all know by going through it. This does not excuse the behavior and mistakes that were made in the past, but it does provide context. What is important today is that lessons were learned from past mistakes. The BSAs two-deep leadership and no one-on-one contact protocols are in place to protect both youth and adults. And YPT reporting protocols ensure that authorities are involved if boys do report abuse. So the short answer that I would give, if anyone were to ask, is that scoutings current youth protection policies are recognized by child protection experts as state of the art. If anybody does have serious questions beyond that, please refer them to me, and I will either talk to them or get them in touch with someone at the council who can.

I have told our leaders to tell people they don't know what happened in the past because they weren't around, but that the BSA's current youth protection practices are recognized as state of the art. If people still have legitimate questions I have told them to refer them to me, and I will refer them to people who get paid to deal with things that do not involve our pack.

It's tough when something you believe in and have devoted a lot of time to comes under attack and you can't do anything about it. The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has its faults, but its current youth protection practices are not among them. Precisely because of mistakes that were made in the past, the organization has put safeguards in place to protect youth (and adults) that are recognized as a model for youth groups. The fact that these safeguards are needed is tragic, but guarding against the evils of humanity is a sad fact of life. Unfortunately all the recent news about the court-mandated release of BSA's Ineligible Volunteer (IV) files from 1965-1985 overshadows this. The media has no interest in presenting any context: salacious details sell papers, and using the term "perversion files" makes for an eye-catching headline (never mind that volunteers were also considered ineligible for other reasons such as theft, etc.). Unfortunately, when a group holds itself up to a moral standard, then fails to meet that standard (as it must fail, because it involves people with human failings), its easy for those that dont have any standards to point to failings as a condemnation of the entire effort. Also wrapped up in this is a desire by some to see the BSA knocked down because of its stance on not allowing membership or leadership to gays or atheists. There are many who would like to kill the BSA and dance on its grave. All this doesnt make it any easier on those of us who believe in the program and have seen its positive impact on youth. It also doesn't help us rank-and-file local leaders, who need to keep our units healthy and grow our membership. Its easy to get discouraged but I still have faith that scouting will continue and not become an anachronism in an increasingly immoral and secular society.

The Catholic Church seems to be doing ok. Our units fundraising was up 3x this past year and we received many outright donations and other comments of support. If you hate the BSA so much pull your son and leave. Nobody is forcing you to be in it and you are still his guardian.

New comments to the blog by the author, who may not be the expert on the topic, say that the requirements in place when a boy begins working on Eagle apply. So, a Life scout starting on December 31, 2013, could technically choose the old requirements. Nevertheless I would not rely on a technicality if I were working on it.

I can't find information on how the MB requirement change will be implemented. Will all Eagle candidates after 2014 be required to have the badge, or will candidates who achieved X rank by a certain time, etc., be "grandfathered."

I see a major rewrite of the cub scout rank requirements. I hope so. Do we really need to do the (now obsolete) food pyramid for several years? Webelos references publications that no longer exist. Boys do Webelos requirements that are the exact same thing for Boy Scouts, such as the Athlete pin requirements that mirror Tenderfoot. I understand preparing boys for the next program, but doing the exact same thing is pretty pointless.

12 required MBs for Eagle. 13 actually. I like how the post starts with "moms and dads, prepare the needle and thread?" How about, "Scouts, prepare your needle and thread!" Or at least "cut out your badge magic!"

As someone who is involved on both the Pack and troop level this is a welcome change. My only concern is it will be harder for cubs to memorize, but it will make the transition easier and imply greater continuity among the units. Those are all good things. Good call.

Our council allows 6 but that is a council rule.

Perfect, qwaze!!!