OldGreyEagle

well pack, when you think about it, eating a "blue" rare steak is pretty much munching on dead animal flesh, then again, eating a well cooked steak is pretty much the same thing. The priest who sexually abused me back in the 7th grade was a pediphile, he wasnt gay, he never had sex, as far as I know, with another adult male, just little boys. It has always made me feel creepy lumping in all gays with that monster, he wasnt gay, he was a pediphile. OK, not a pediphile, someone will no doubt correct me and say its not Pediphilia since I was an adolescent at the time and thats another term, but whether you say Venture Crew or Venturing Crew, I am not sure that fine a distinction is enough to gripe about(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

No, its not standard or even sanctioned, but before I give you advice to get medieval on their backside you may want to ask the SM and ASM what are their thoughts on the matter. It may be an eye opener either way. They may have information that you don't have, they may have a line of thinking that makes sense, or not, but you won't know unless you ask(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

I really hate when old guys start to bemoan the passing of time and facing change, but I am going to so there you go. it seems like the the new generation of parents, age 40 or so, do not have the same volunteer ethic that my parents or I do. it's not a bad thing, just an Observation. it gets bad when they start to demand things from people who are "volunteers" and this fact seems to pass them by. Then there is the experience factor. I grew up in a Chicago suburb in the 50's and 60's. All the kids on the black knew how to start a fire, we all burned leaves in the fall, we all burned household paper and a few families still burned garbage. Fire tending was skill we all had. Most dads knew ho to fell a tree and hiring a tree service would have caused you to get laughed out of the neighborhood. The fathers took the tree down and for the rest of the week or so, the kids took turns sawing the thing up or spliting the wood. We would be outside from sunup to sundown, or so it seemed. We fished in the creek using line tied to a stick as the creek was far to muddy to mess up your real fishing tackle with. Even non-scouts carried a pocket knife and we showed off new ones in the playground and the teachers may have admired a few as well. OK, I know its different now. But as we have become a much more urban oriented, indoor, out of the outdoor society, we have lost much of the woodcraft skills that were once taken for granted. The new fathers who come in with their crossed over scouts may never have handled an axe before, and are not sure they want to split a cord of wood. As if they know that a cord is a measurement of wood. Their fireplace is gas supplied of course. They don't barbecue on charcoal, they have a propane grill. None of this is bad, its just how things change, but also lost is the ability to not be freaked out that you will be sleeping outside for a few days. There was a TV comercial with a kindergarten age kid saying you should "share toys, not germs", it was an ad for an antiseptic hand cleaner. And we wonder why kids freak if you put a worm in their hands. Unclean get a really bad rap. How do we teach woodcraft to those who have no background experience in anything remotely connected to outdoor skills? What does it take to get them to a competent level? Can we agree what constitutes a competent level? Once there, how long do we expect to keep them? The Disitrct Committee has had the same 70% or so core for about 5 years now, new people start and then leave after a few years, just as they started to underestand the program because their youth aged out How do we keep the trained, the knowledgeable?

Been away for a few days a few observations on the revival... Hot August night... I meant of this thread I think about the argument that some put forth that homosexuals are barred from the BSA based on concerns that Homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles and it is a youth protection issue. Well, if the BSA sees it as a youth protection issue, perhaps it should contemplate banning the group that has historically provided the largest by far amount of molestors in the BSA in other words, seeming heterosexual married men with children either on the program or aged out. That's the group that seems to be the perpertrator a huge percent of the time. People being interviewed after their arrest are always shocked, "he was always such a nice guy", "I can't beleive it, he seemed so normal" etc. Just once I would like to hear, "You know, I can beleive it, the way he pranced around here with his boyfriends, I knew he wasnt right" Just a thought (This message has been edited by oldGreyeagle)

Back in '98 or so I was in a discussion where some guy said the Ranger would replace Eagle. That was fun too especially since no one had much of a handle on what the Ranger was and very few realized that Ranger only represented 20% of the available program.

Thank you for answering, now I understand

Welcome to the Forum, hotair, I hope you learn from us and we from you. This is regarding your statement: "2) Patrol hikes without adult supervision? What are you people thinking? Two deep leadership is a requirement, along with youth protection training" How do you explain this statement in the "Guide to Safe Scouting"? http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings Two-deep leadership: Two registered adult leaders, or one registered leader and a parent of a participating Scout or other adult, one of whom must be at least 21 years of age or older, are required for all trips or outings. There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required. Coed overnight activities, even those including parent and child, require male and female adult leaders, both of whom must be 21 years of age or older, and one of whom must be a registered member of the BSA. Note the sentence; "There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when no adult leadership is required." I take it you are from around the Chicago area, do you know where Wood Dale is?

Oops, my mistake, when you said "Any Secretary" I didnt know you meant just BSA Secretaries at National. Just a question. I understand from your posts that Wood Badge was hijacked in 1972. You have spent most of your time here talking about that. But it's only been relatively recently that you have begun to include White Stag as another factor in the demise of the BSA as well. Any particular reason White Stag wasn't included before?

Just called the local Council Scout Store and asked if the 100% Satisfaction guarantee was still in effect for the Centennial Uniform and was told indeed, the same gurantee that has always been on the uniforms continues without any time limit. The 100-percent phrase is used on the ScoutStuff Facebook page, it says "All products sold by Boy Scouts of America carry a 100-percent guarantee." Given such information, I think we should all resolve to be sure we return any bit of the new uniform, or any uniform piece or anything bought in the Scout Store and get either a replacement or a refund. Apparently the only way to effect policy is through monetary means and for the uniform that means returning sub-standard uniform parts. If the guarantee isnt well known, the its up to us who know to spread the word. Do you think if enough pieces are returned, we can get the manufaturing of the uniforms home to the USA?

I have a new Centennial Uniform, bought one the second day they were available, hadnt bought a new uniform since 4 months prior to the 2001 National Jamboree where I was an Asst scoutmaster. Havent had a problem with it, although the flag ribbon and rubberized Red letters are more than a bit disconcerting. I asked about the guarantee specifically for new people, to be of service to them. I did not know the guantee has been shrunk down to 30 days, I will have to call my local service center and ask when that change occurred. Because maybe if we can get the word out on the gurantee and urge people to return poor quality uniforms, perhaps then they will have to look at the supplier. If all we do is moan to each other and don't let them know, how can they fix it? if they get back a bunch of returns, that they will understand

Doesnt the Boy Scout Store have a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee on all their stuff? If a uniform piece fails, are not you supposed to be able to return it for a refund/replacement?

Is there any reason to denigrate secretaries?

Gee, Gern, I risk being labeled as showing my age again, but I didn't know Scouting was ever cool. 50 years ago I was a cub scout and learning to be square while Maynard K Krebs fought humorously against the squares in society. We were in the Church Basement hanging out with our parents. Then in Boy Scouts we were in the Church basement learning to be be prepared. I don't remember anyone ever saying anything about Leadership, I earned Eagle in 1969 so that was before the 1972 changes (hey GWD, your son is upset his Eagle card has GW's name in it? Mine has Nixon's)so perhaps that's the reason. Boy Scouts were not cool then either, but as it was 1968ish, perhaps being in the Chicago suburbs with the tears gas from Grant Park wafting our way colorerd my peers perception of the uniform

The POR term minimum from First Class to Star is 4 months and then from Star to Life and Life to Eagle the term is at least 6 months. So changing every 2-3 months is of no use. One could say that it's really not the Troop or the adults concern about POR's, thats up to the boys. Either get yourelf elected as a Patrol leader or SPL, or get youself appointed by the SPL as an ASPL or Quartermaster or perhaps Instructor. Letting the SPL pick his "cabinet" is a much better way of doing things than saddling him with names filling a space. It also has the benefit of following the program. To get the youth doing their POR's. have they been oriented? Do they et evaluations on how they are doing, do they kno they must do the job to advance?

Since Powderhorn is rooted in Venturing, it does not break up participantsinto a patrol, rather, they are in Crews which are sorta kinda like patrols but not really I am talking about Scout Craft only. The Troop I serve and I were just at Summercamp a few weeks back and the axe yard was largely unused. We have very few adults who know how to build a monkey bridge or make rope from Twine, that's what I would like to see. As far as traveling everyday to get to a location and then learn a skill, you knmow that's pretty durn near a descripton of Venturing's Kodiak program, although Kodiak is addmittedly about Leadership, but if we substitute Scout skills for the COmmissions of Kodiak, it may not be bad.

OK, Kudu's right, Wood Badge has been hijacked and most liley will never return to it's original purpose, so we shall leave it to teach managerail skills. What seems to be needed is actual scoutcraft skill. Perhaps named after Daniel Carter Beard. Anyway, for a Scoutcraft one week course, what would you say would be essential?

Desertrat77, something to consider, not every WB registrant has a middle management or above position. I unerastadnw at you mean about Wood Badge being a rehash of material you have already seen, but not everyone has the same background as you. As I understand it, the idea is to give managerial skills and exposire to everyone in the language so we underastand each other. In the Troop I serve there are Doctors, University Professors, hourly construction workers, etc which I woudl think mirror many troops. The idea of Wood Badge is to lay out princiles that not everyione may know or understand. That Wood Badgers can be jerks is not surprising, any group of people has a jerk component. I keep gettig told in my Council since I did 21rst Century Wood Badge I can never be as good a Scouter as those who took the last "real" course. That's why I was so grateful to Kudu when he told me it hasn't been Real Wood Badge since 1972, the guys tormenting me are as big a poser as I am supposed to be.

I am not so sure that a Driving merit badge with a Car and Motorcycle option is such a bad thing. A requirement would be to volunteer in a hospital Emergency Dept for a total 24 hours on either Friday or Saturday night. Might be the most valuable time ever spent I know next to nothing about Jet Ski's , are they complicated to repair and maintain?

I am ok with Kudu blaming the demise of Scouting starting in 1972 with the changes in Wood Badge but since when did having been to Wood Badge such an awful thing it must be bashed at any opportunity, real or imagined? If you meet a Wood Badge elitist, treat him as you see fit, but just because someone wears beads doesnt make them a bad person, it just means they took Wood Badge, in whatevr form it was offered at the time. To see beads on a person and prejudge them seems, I don't know, icky at best. You can always hold out hope the training didnt take and they are still decent people, whatevr version they took, or were subjected to

it would be fun to have the Unit Committee listen to this speech given by B-P http://www.thescoutingpages.org.uk/speeches.html BP Gives a Talks to Scouts About 3/4 or so thorugh he states quite clearly": "we want more young men and even young women to come forward as scoutmasters" If women scoutmasters were good enough for B-P, they should be good enough for everybody, eh?

I haven't done this for awhile, but I have a spot to do it twice in one day here. Hear in B-P's word his thought's on the uniform http://www.thescoutingpages.org.uk/speeches.html Listen to "Another Message to Scouts" his comments on the uniform are rather close to the beginning Are Pocket Rockets just swank? Then again, most doodads are...

The LDS program says that the Scoutmaster must be male, the Chartering Organizatin may make such a decision, not the Unit Committee. Now, if the unit committee prevails on the Chartering Institution to say all Scoutmasters must be male, you are fine according to the BSA. Whether or not you end up on CNN is anybody's guess. Augusta National still only admits male members, are a private club and legally may do so but they still end up on CNN and a few other stations as well

Today marks the one week anniversary of a Black Bear being spotted between the Dining Hall and the Troop site for Summer Camp. Google Hickory Run State Park and Boy Scout's. Now a Pennsylvania black bear is by no means a Grizzly, but I still respect the damage they can do. One nearly took a kids face off at Goose Pond a few years back. Course, the kid had food in his tent. You don't have to be in the great western wilderness to encounter bears. We use bear precautions anytime we camp, just a good habit(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

Whatever our thoughts on whether one should or should not sleep alone for whatever reason, if Philmont allows Scouts to sleep alone, then there is not a BSA policy that says each tent needs at least two sleepers

How is this for a Conspiracy Theory? of course the yougn man wouldhave to pay for his rescue, heis facing the consequence of his actions. In the near future, we will be all facing consequences for our actions once national Health care takes hold. Have a heart Attack and you are 20% ( or so ) overweight according to the published height and weight charts? You pay more than if you were 10% overweight. Smoker for 30 years or more and have Lung Cancer, sorry, palliative treatment only from here out, youknew it was bad for you in the first place Stroke requiring intesive Physical and Occupational Rehab? Just how do you prove you were on the Nationally approved Macrobiotic Diet to prevent placque build-up. Paying for a rescue? Just the start of a journey down a slippery slope, how ironic!