OldGreyEagle

In pursuit of an Eagle Scout badge, Kevin Anderson, 17, has toiled for more than 200 hours hours over several weeks to clear a walking path in an east Allentown park. Little did the do-gooder know that his altruistic act would put him in the cross hairs of the city's largest municipal union. Nick Balzano, president of the local Service Employees International Union, told Allentown City Council Tuesday that the union is considering filing a grievance against the city for allowing Anderson to clear a 1,000-foot walking and biking path at Kimmets Lock Park. "We'll be looking into the Cub Scout or Boy Scout who did the trails," Balzano told the council. Balzano said Saturday he isn't targeting Boy Scouts. But given the city's decision in July to lay off 39 SEIU members, Balzano said "there's to be no volunteers." No one except union members may pick up a hoe or shovel, plant a flower or clear a walking path. "We would hope that the well-intentioned efforts of an Eagle Scout candidate would not be challenged by the union," said Mayor Ed Pawlowski in an e-mail Friday. "This young man is performing a great service to the community. His efforts should be recognized as such." Balzano said Saturday the union is still looking into the matter and might cut the city a break. "We are probably going to let this one go," Balzano said . The possible entanglement of a local Boy Scout in a union dispute underscores the frustration and anger SEIU members feel after being the lone city union to suffer layoffs in the ongoing financial crisis. It may also serve as a preview of future labor battles as the city tries to outsource some necessary jobs as a result of the layoffs. Anderson, a junior and varsity soccer player at Southern Lehigh High School, is a member of Boy Scout Troop 301 of Center Valley. He got the idea for the trail while taking hikes along the partially complete, 165-mile Delaware and Lehigh National Heritage Corridor. He noticed there were a few missing connections to the trail in Kimmets Lock Park, which is on the Lehigh River near Dauphin Street. He already has logged 250 hours trying to carve out a walking and biking trail along the river. "I decided to do my part in completing this part of the trail. In that way, others could enjoy walking along the river, without having to walk on the busy road," Anderson said in an e-mail Friday. During last week's budget hearings, where City Council reviewed the Public Works and Park and Recreation departments' funding requests, it was made clear that the layoffs and early retirements -- all of which have led to the lowest city staffing levels in two decades -- are bound to create union disputes in the weeks and months ahead. For example, the city currently does not have an electrician available because of the layoffs and an employee on an extended sick leave. As a result, the city has been forced to hire an outside union electrician to oversee the installation for the popular Lights on the Parkway holiday display. "In the spirit of the holiday, we decided to let that go," Balzano said. Greg Weitzel, head of the Parks and Recreation Department, which lost 17 full-time employees as a result of the layoffs and retirements, said the low staffing levels will require more outsourcing of labor and a greater reliance on volunteers. "There are some things that we can do in-house and other things we will have to bid out," Weitzel said Tuesday. "We originally had plans to do more with our labor force, but now we have to bid out that work." http://www.mcall.com/news/all-a8_5scout.7084728nov15,0,6238384.story

The quote is atributed to Socrates, I guess Civilization has gone downhill ever since Speaking of Scouting Pride. At the Northeast Region Area 5 Leadership Conference, one of the speakers, Tico perez mentioned that Mike Rowe (the guy from Dirty Jobs and ubiquitous Ford commercials is filming a TV show, "Are you tougher than a Boy Scout". mr what Mr Perez said this is part of a program National BSA has about making the BSA prominent, it may help

Quick, who said the following? "Our youth now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love to chatter in places of exercise. Children are tyrants, not the servants of the household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." I know a few different versions of this thought are floating around, to whom is this thought attributed?

when has been being called a "Boy Scout" ever been a compliment? The phrase "You are such a boy scout" has not been in recent memory been considered a compliment. In a Culture which adores bad guys, when is being self professed good guy in fashion? I was a Boy Scout in the Chicago Suburbs from 1965-1971, from about the summer of 1968 (post Democratic Convention) for 18 months or so, we didnt wear our uniforms, the adults deemed it not worth the risk as the youth would have been seen as toadies for "the man". I don't think Boy Scouts ever recovered from that era, and I don't just mean in Chicago. The counter culture of the 60's made all things honorable and honest passe, or seemingly so. So, if the youth are a tad reluctant to tell peers they are scouts, I guess its our job to allow them to develop the self confidence that they will be able to be proud of being a scout.

perhaps the message is to celebrate Scouting, not the BSA As our old pal Kudu would remind us the two are not the same, perhaps that was the thought here as well

Everyone so far would be too expensive, at least some would say they are too expensive. Lets go with a chambray shirt, any manufactuer and a pair of khacki (the unit gets to choose which shade) pants. No complaints about cost and enough sizes for everyone

"AHH OGE and your style is to use or abuse your moderator status to manipulate things to your line of thinking," Thats right, and only like thinking clones of myself are able to post here. Such like thinking people such as Beavah, Brent, Ed, Lisabob, Packsaddle, John-in-KC, Kudu, Merlyn, NJCubDad we are all such peas in a pod

here's a thought What if we respected each other enough to know that if a unit puts out an Eagle Candidate we all know that the boy has done everything he is supposed to and has fulfilled the requirements and lives the oath and law.

I look forward to the publication of the methodology concerning how one determines who is to be held to a higher standard then the published requirements. I hope to be able to take 10 cross overs and after applyiong the metric "know" which ones I should expect more from and which ones I may allow to merely meet the requirements. Its really quite interesting, I have never been prescient before, I love trying out new skills. Then again, maybe all of this would go away if we trusted each other to have our scouts meet the stated requirements, Nahhhhh!

Climb On Safely is not a climbing course anymore than safe swim defense teaches you how to swim. To do a climbing activity you need to have someone with Climb On Safely Certification and also you need some one certifed in Climbing, from the Climb on SAfely outline this is what a qualified individual is; A qualified instructor for rock climbing/rappelling must supervise all BSA climbing/rappelling activities. A currently trained BSA climbing director or climbing instructor is highly recommended. Contact your local Scout service center to locate a qualified individual. Other climbing instructors must be at least 21 years of age and must have completed a minimum of 10 hours of climbing/rappelling instruction from a nationally or regionally recognized organization, climbing school, or college-level climbing/rappelling course. You either need two people who qualify for each one of these, Climb on SAfely trained for one and Climbing instructor for the other OR a single person may hold both certificates Climb on Safely is not skills training, its about how to organize and run a climbing event much as Safe Swin Defense is about how to run a swimming event Edited Part, Looks like jersey posted as I was writing. Climb On Safely is offered at various places, I know the Minsi Trails Council in the Lehigh Valley PA will have it at our University of Scouting in the Spring(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Intersting concept there Gern, to put the rights of a minority in the hands of the majority... I was always taught in school, and on the playground and just about everywhere else that the majority rules, but I agree there has to be a place where the minority is respected. If I and a majority of my neighbors do not want a specific ethnic group in my neighborhood, can I say majority rules and block them out (I was talking about the Irish of course)? Well, no, I know I can't and would not want to be in a society that does, but then what about the rule of the majority over the minority? What if I organize a bunch of Anarchists (now that's ironic and an oxymoron) and we decide that the rules don't apply to us and we should be able to take anything we want and live anywhere we want and run off anybody who gets in our way? Should the majority of people who beleive in the rule of law be allowed to impose their way of thinking on us? We are a minority, we need to be protected and our emerging style of life accepted.

Sort of like a Dead Poets Society meet Mr and Mrs Smith Brad Pitt and Angelina Joie reprise their roles as assasins but both turned states evidence and are in Witness Protection. No longer active they are advisors of a Co-Ed Venturing Crew and there are multiple coming of age story lines while the Crew try to figure out how their advisors learned all those skills?

When you say no one is listening anymore do you mean absolutely everyone and you are prescient enough to know this or is this another one of the argumentative styles you have where you say something you know to be false but its just your style? Are you sure you want to speak for the Forum, again? Anyhow Brent, just like Dr Frazer Crane, I am listening and I see the confusion. I think In Number 6 it states: A Scout cannot have a board of review denied or postponed Because the council office or council advancement committee does not receive the reference letter forms he delivered. So I can see where our good buddy Ed says you cant use not having the letters as an excuse to postpone the Eagle Board of Review. The rules say you cant postpone or deny the Eagle Boardof Review. Then in Number 7 it says the application, Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, and references will be returned from the council service center to the chairman of the Eagle board of review so that a board of review may be scheduled So the thinking is on your part, how can the Board of review be scheduled if the references are not back? I think the answer is we are all locked up with letters. The Eagle candidate is required to give the references and the Council is to determine how the references are gathered. For your council its by letter (mine as well). But others may have people call and talk to the references and record this on an outline form and this is the reference that is passed along. There could be other methods. Number 7 says and references will be it does not say reference letters, the references may take any form the Council wishes. Heck in a few years a few minutes of video may be requested in some Council as the children of the video age take our places. Now there is a disconnect, number 6 says A Scout cannot have a board of review denied or postponed because the council office or council advancement committee does not receive the reference letter forms he delivered but number 7 says, the application, Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, and references will be returned from the council service center to the chairman of the Eagle board of review so that a board of review may be scheduled So it appears the references have to be present (although not necessarily in letter form) before the Eagle Board may be scheduled, but then number 6 says you can't postpone or deny a Eagle Board because because the council office or council advancement committee does not receive the reference letter forms he delivered. So, what is the answer? If I had one we wouldnt be this many posts along, if anyone had one, we wouldnt be this many posts along. My advice to scouts out there? Get the letters! Edited part: In reading over the post, I notices something, Number 7 says "...references will be returned" To return something, doesnt that mean the person has had to have had them at some point in the past? Why would the Eagle Chair have the Application and Eagle Workbook and the whole shebang anyway? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Gee Frank, I guess I don't know how to moderate/edit posts without leaving the tell tale script, I guess I have been remiss in my attendance in the monthly Moderator Educational Series. To keep our Moderator status we have to accumulate 12 hours of education but since its expected that we all do more than required, its actually 15. But if its known that its 15 then doing 15 is just doing the expected so I guess I have to bump it up to 18 just to be sure... Oops, since I said 18 that will be expected guess that makes it 20, aww heck I better quit while I am ahead

No No No, you are clearly thinking of WhoDo,(Hoodo?) the kid who grew up to be governor, as far as the Asian influence, you are talking about the charactor Fong whose mother is Vietamese and has a ....

Gwd, I have always thought of effete being a slur used towards males accusing of them of being feminine, girly, quarterbackish, as in "That guy is so effete he should be wearing a skirt" You on the other had, should be effete, feminine and while not girly necessarily, at the very least not afraid to let the estrogen be unleashed

Again with the minimums... We have requirements for Eagle, they are known and publsihed. We also know that there is no adding or subtracting to the requirements so do we not expect the scout to meet the requirements or not? I pay income tax each year I don't add 10% more to prove I am a Patriot and I don't want to do just the minimum. In my professional certification I must have 24 hours of Continuing Education every 24 months to renew my registration. Am I bad for only doing the minimum? WOuld you be more impressed if I said I would do 30 hours? We have requirments for Eagle, we have requirements for the Eagle applicant to provide 5 references whom are to be contacted for a reference. As stated in multiple places in this thread the Council may elect that these references may be in the form of a letter and the boy may be asked to deliver the form letters. If we want to "upgrade" the Eagle requirments, then please, add to the Eagle and Minimum thread. What I thought we were teaching youth was to make ethical decsions over their lifteime based on the values expressed in the Oath and Law wich means we the adults have to follow the Oath and Law itself. Seems many councils have forgotten that or never got the memo

Some pretty scathing comments have been know to fly here as well...

Heck, instead of Whitey's dad being a drunk plumber, his dad could be cooking crystal meth in a shack out back and Lem doesnt realize it until Whitey is the first kid in years to ace the Chemistry merit badge

Gunny, remember the Board OF Review also reviews the scouts view of the troop, the composition of the BOR is such that the scoutmaster and Asst Scoutmasters are not present so the scout may feel more free to discuss what he likes or dislikes about the troop. In a troop operating accrosing to Hoyle, the BOR should be focusing on the scouts and how to improve his experience, with his inout natrually, and not so much outlining how to get the scout up to an acceptable skill level

I guess it all depends on what you interpret "image" to be. If you think "image" means God looks like Kim Bassinger in her totally hot years, you have to accept that God also looks like Kathleen Turner in her later not so hot years. Perhaps image isn't about physical appearance, or anything physical at all. Perhaps Image means a spiritual entity capable of reason and expression and able to manipulate physical matter. Or at least that we imagine is physical matter, how do we know?. I do know that when you attempt to anthropomorphise, you most always come up empty

Just for fun, Brent, are these letters from the references on the Eagle Application form or from people other than listed on the Eagle Application form?

This may or may not to gently remind the forum its abbreviated POR because its a Position of Responsibility, not Position of Leadership. If it was a POL, that would be different. If you have a scout in a POR for 6 months and that scout hasn't done anything, the scout has technically fulfilled requirements of the POR. The larger quesiton is how could the scout be in a POR for 6 months and not do anything? Has not the SPL (unless it is the SPL) communciated the expectations of the position and has kept the Scoutmaster abreast of the issue? Has not the scoutmaster had conferences with the individual scout explaining what needs to be done and the consequence of not doing it? I can see an individual scout not performing his POR and slipping through the cracks once. But if it happens once, and then if the unit does not take steps to assure it doesnt happen again, I would like to know why? Could be lots of reasons, I would like to hear some. The scoutmasters hands were not tied for 6 months, why are his hands an issue now?

I think we need to make a distinction. As brent points out, the Eagle Application requests the scout to list references on their application form, these people may be asked to provide reference letters and then what Brent has is followed. Some Councils go beyond this process and ask for three letters of reference beyond those asked for on the Eagle Application and you can guess how this viewed, adding to the requirments and all. So, if you are talking about letters of reference from those listed on the Eagle Application, it can be done. If you are talking about letters of reference from people other than what is listed on the Eagle application? Can't be done, well shouldnt, not supposed to be

I thought a loathsome scale was what fell off Puff the Magic Dragon when Jackie Paper died?