OldGreyEagle

Sounds like you are doing the right thing Mafaking, God Bless you for what you do

Calico, I may say this wrong, so I apologize up front. So, if stealing honors the dark side of a God or Goddess, then there isnt anything wrong with stealing. How can you live in a society such as the US where stealing is deemed wrong? This is a concept I am struggling to understand

As long as the liver was inspected for evidence of Tularemia there should be no problem. A rabbit with Tularemai will have a grey liver with white spots... or is that a white liver with grey spots... Oh well, I am sure that was covered in the class

First perhaps we need to define our terms. I beleive Sin is an offense to God. I do not understand how a belief system can have no sin. Any belief system has a code of conduct if you will. A way to live your life, when you depart from that code and commit an act that is in opposition to that code it may be called a transgression, an error in judgement, a mis-step but why is calling it a sin anathema to you? How do you define stealing? Cheating? Murder? Fraud? (as in lieing) What do you call these behaviors and how do you differentiate them from sin? I realize this post is replete with my own prejudices, I can't seem to shake them(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

First a Disclosure My Son is ADD and was on Ritalin his entire Scouting Career, up to and past earning Eagle, a Silver Palm and was elected Patrol Leader for the 2001 National Jamboree. At no time was an excuse that his medication wore off ever became acceptable for unscoutlike behavior Now, the behavior displayed here may be a bit beyond ADD and into the Aspergers arena, you say the father was proud because his son was camping on his own, yet the son's independence and father's good feelings cannot come at the compromise of the other scouts safety. We had an Aspergers Scout who was asked to leave the troop after two physical altercations that he started. He could not be controlled and it was very hard to say good bye to him but we in the committee could not look in the eyes of the other youth and their parents and guarantee this boys behavior would not jeopardize other troop members health and well being. When you say "strangle" that is disturbing, strangling can result in dire results quite quickly, is this a new behavior? The father indicates that his meds wore off, for what malady? How is he controlled at home? It may be a great thing the boy is on his own, but if the father has to be there to administer meds, then he might have to be there. The safety of the other scouts is as important, or perhaps more so (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few) Do you have special needs volunteers? Because my son wa ADD, I could see it in others and perhaps I was lenient on them when it came to stying on task, but the safety of others possessions and health cannot be compromised by a troop with good intentions

As it was explained to me, EDGE is a model that youth can follow to teach a skill such as how to tie a knot, build a fire, find direction at night, that sort of thing. These are pretty much in the Psychomotor Domain. Presenting EDGE to adults allows both youth and adults to have a common vocabulary. Now, when presenting in the Cognitive Domain where one teaches in the Knowledge, Comprehension, Analysis, Application, Synthesis and Evaluation areas, EDGE doesn't hold up as well as there isn't much demonstration in explaining what the scout law means, well thats actually going into the Affective Domain, but I digress. Some things, such as this years Klondike Derby rules are not going to easily fold into the EDGE psychomotor range and thats what the reast of the EDGE training was about

One of the Staff members we had is also a Chemistry Professor at Lehigh University. He made a comment that education has shifted from what he termed "The Sage on the Stage" to "The Guide on the Side".

You, know, this whole thing about comparing Boy Scout Uniforms to athletic teams uniforms is wrong. If we are going to compare ourselves to Athletic teams in uniforming then we may as well take on the full model, and not go half-way. At Camporees, Klondikes, etc where there is patrol competition, only the "starting scouts" will be allowed to participate. The scrubs or substitutes can stand around, on the sidelines as it were and wait to see if they are needed. We will have adults determine who is the best firestarter, the best lasher, the best everything. We will have the adults determine the troops strategy as the overall goal of any athletic team is to win. We will have the adults determine who the captain is of the unit. Yeah, just like sports, thats what I want scouts to be

Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell was born 153 years ago, February 22 1857 Oddly enough his wife Olave also was born on February 22, but in 1889 The Girl Scouts will be celebrating Thinking Day today, it may do us all good to think about why we do the things we do, and its doesnt have to be scouting Happy Birthday to You Happy Birthday to You Happy Birthday B-P and Olave Happy Birthday to You(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

OK, I have taken EDGE training No, it did not tell me anything about presenting that I didnt know already, but it was not supposed to. I am an undergraduate Education Major with 4 years of University teaching. EDGE was not designed to give me any help uin presenting, but I do not beleive it should have EDGE is for beginning trainers, for people who have never talked in front of a a group before. Sometimes long time scouters forget not everyone has had the experiences that they have had. BSA needs a way of establishing a base level of competence in its trainers and EDGE does that very well. Some may say its the same old stuff, just recycled around. I say, well heck yeah, but it is the BSA way and BSA is trying to establish a trainig vocabulary that is common for both youth (NYLT) and Wood Badge and EDGE helps establish that. I am glad I went, I underestand it and I saw first time presenters terrified to talk and the instructors did a good job with them. Not everyone is comfortable talking in Public and this is a way to ease people into it.

OK,so in the newest Advancement Book, "Advancement and Recognition Policies and Procedures" BSA Publication 33088, 2010 Printing, it says this on page 27 regarding Boards of Review and the uniform "The Scout should be neat in his appearance; however, a uniform is not required. Local boards of review may not make up their own rules about wearing a uniform." I suppose this means all of the uniform police are out of a job, much like the East German Border Crossing Guards were jobless after the Berlin Wall fell. I can only imagine that National got tired of appeals that were bsed soley on scouts either being denied Boards of Review (Eagle mostly) or being denied a rank because the scout was not in uniform. Well, as Ed has often said, a uniform is not required and here is documented proof

I remember I was new to a job and within the first months on the job came the company pic-nic. Well the main recreation was a volleyball tournament. The problem was the net wasn't set up very well and when people would fall in the net, over the poles would go and then there was great whining and gnashing of teeth until it got set-up, only to have the whole experience repeated within the next five minutes or so. After the 5th time or so, I went sauntered over to the poles, tied a taut line hitch on the lines that previously only had been wrapped around the anchoring stake and tightened it up. As I was tieing the knot, one big lug reeking of beer and brats says rather loudly, "I've never see one of those (expletive deleted) knots hold". Well, the knots held. People still fell into the net, but then the set up was much easier, just tighten up the knots and we were ready. When the day was through the big lug says as we were taking down the net, "Like I said, I've never seen one of those knots hold, until today", I answered "maybe because until today you never saw an Eagle Scout tie one". The place got quiet, the big lug laughed, "I guess so" and I was relegated knot tieing duties from then on. But, they always held.

I agree Scoutfish, its hard to deliver the promise, when you don't know what that promise is

"Watching some of the physically unfit, uncoordinated, and mentally challenged moms trying to learn to shoot BB guns in my certification class;" where was this? Were the mentally challenged moms insitutionalized?

When I was in College, a long long long time ago, I had a double Major, Management and Education. I spent Four years teaching in a University setting. YOu know what they say, those who can do, those who can't teach. Then again, those who can't teach teach teachers to teach. As a Medicare Complaince Consultant I go into hospitals and talk to masses of people all the time, so I don't feel ill at ease in front of people. I have had so many "classess" on presentation I am anxious to see how this will be

Yikes! halfway through? How long does this take? The council I serve has it scheduled for one day, how long does it last? its scheduled 8-4

Well personally "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers" but it depends on what arrangements were made as well. A scout is Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, et al but that does not make him a pushover either. If there was to be a payment of services rendered, then the expenses should be compensated. It it was agreed this would be "pro bono" then it does not get compensated. Just as we shoud not expect to get free services from Governmental Units, Governmental units shoudl not expect to get free services from us

And yet the posts continue

I am scheduled to take the EDGE training on Saturday Ed, so I will let you know. As you imply I don't think its anything really innovative and may be a rehash of what I have already seen, I won't know until I take it. There is a point though, CRW (CrossRamWedge)is telling us there are requirments to be on WB staff and these requirements are not going to be followed. Is this to be the state of Wood Badge? We have one thread where it appears a Wood Badge Course was told they had to do a 360 degree evaluation as a ticket item. We know that it isnt, but its still required for the course in question. Now, there is trainig that is supposed to be done and it will be ignored. EDGE may see silly, and maybe it is and maybe it isnt, but I didnt think you could play around with requirements like this. I had in mind the curriculum was the curriculum and wasnt to be altered, perhaps supplemented, but all materials presented and all requirmetns met. If "requirements" are only "ARRGHHH Pirate Guideline", then Wood Badge may not be worth the respect KUDU gives it

::Just wondering if people who expect the Advancement method of the Program to be followed as written should be known as the Advancement Police::

I've been to Crystal River, I have seen Manatees, and while Guy, I have never seen you, you are much preferable to any Manatee I have ever seen

Wasn't Jerry Hall accused of Witchcraft sometime in the 80's or 90's? Some people said she cast a curse on the Rolling Stones and turned them all into dull, ugly, wizened, used-up old men

Ed asks: "Question - How young is this boy?" Mds3d had already posted: "BTW I really do know a boy like this. After 3 years of working with the doctor, they requested alternative requirements. He was told that he could not be accomadated "simply because he was a little scared." The boy would later age out of scouting a Tenderfoot scout with more than 60 merit badges." Now if the scout aged out then he is at least 18 and the present age of the scout doesnt matter does it? If the psychiatrist would have stated the issue was a permanent disability, I think he should have been afforded alternative requirements. Realize that this is after 3 years, I am not saying this should be done every time someone has hesitation in getting in water, but to sumarily dismiss everyone as just being "afraid" is not right. I think 3 years of documented psychiatric treatment would qualify as sufficient to qualify as proof of a disability.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I have seen what Natty talks about, once the scout is in the OA, they are long gone from the Troop. Every year, the OA sponsors a station at the Fall Camporee and Klondike so many OA members sign up to be "Staff" so they don't have to pull a sled and then laugh at the "young guys" pulling the sleds and then go back to BS'ing with the other guys who have nothing to do except sit/stand along the fire and let the adults actually run the station. I thought the Arrowman's job was to render service to his troop and leaving them to part with fellow OA members is not my idea of service to a troop. In my area, the OA is a social Club where the adults who don't have a clue get together with the youth who dont want to do anything combine to not do a whole lot, except make each other Vigil and then celebrate what grand scouts and scouters they are So, its the troops fault if the OA member would rather goof with his buds? I thought we were dealing with the cream of the BSA, guess I was wrong Oh, do I sound bitter? yes I am, I thought the OA had Lofty goals and aspirations and just dont see it. I hope other areas are better