OldGreyEagle

I guess it depends on how you define "pushy"... When I was a scout, I would ask my mother what she would like for Christmas, and she would say, you know, the mothers pin for First Class would match my new suit,or when I asked what she wanted for her birthday it was, that Star pin the mothers get would look great with my new hat. For mother's day one year it was the life pin and then the Eagle pin of course. Not sure if I would have done it with out the help? Motivation? Push? Course that was back when it took a man to be a scout, having to walk uphill to the rifle range 5 miles both directions in a blinding blizzard. You had to learn either morse code of semaphore and couldnt earn a merit badge until you were First Class

One should be aware that Fat Old Guy and Gold Winger are the same guy, and he was banned from the site, TrailPounder no longer posts and I think he turned out to be a pretty nice guy once he mellowed a bit. Bob White doesnt post here anymore as well. I appreciate that you have done research, but the posters you mention do not currently post here if you want real fun, search out WHEELER, now there was piece of work (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

The only person who "hires and fires" volunteers working with a BSA unit is the Charter Organization Representative. That's it. If the Committee Chair has been given authority by the COR to run the unit and backs the CC, then the CC can do anything he/she wants. But thats not the way the program is supposed to run. Was there any indication what the CC was upset about? The unit is not boy lead enough? The unit is too adult lead? Any ideas?

The only person who "hires and fires" volunteers working with a BSA unit is the Charter Organization Representative. That's it. If the Committee Chair has been given authority by the COR to run the unit and backs the CC, then the CC can do anything he/she wants. But thats not the way the program is supposed to run. Was there any indication what the CC was upset about? The unit is not boy lead enough? The unit is too adult lead? Any ideas?

I love it when a plan comes together John 'Hannibal' Smith

DO the foot baths have any Islamic insignia on them? ANything that designates them as being religious items or things to be used in religious customs?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Kudu,its truly rare when I would try to amend one of your statements, but when you said: "In a boy-run Troop you haul along 60 individually owned tents because each boy wants to use his own :-/" Should it not have read: In a boy-run Troop the scouts arange to haul along 60 individually owned tents because each boy wants to use his own :-/ ?

Easy answer Jet, you take off the bubble wrap the helicopter mom's sent their boy into the woods wrapped around them and wrap it around the tree, and the hammock goes on that See, knowing and utilizing your resources

ScoutLass, I do not think anyone has claimed the BSA is a Christian Organization. The BSA along with PRAY have religious medal programs for the following among more Baha'i Buddhist Hindu Islamic Jewish If anyone has told you the BSA is a Christian Organization, they simply don't know what they are talking about, Thank you for assisting Scouting

Never did understand why those who wish the uniform to be worn properly are know as "uniform police" as we all know there is nothing wrong with tweaking the uniform. Then again, if a program tweaks the Advancement Program, then cries of "Eagle Mill" are hurled...

I love my Old Grand Dad now Oh, thats not what you were thinking about? Never mind...

I was bullied quite a bit as a youngster, actually most of the neighborhood was by this one guy. One day I stood up to the guy, popped him in the nose and he beat the bloody hell out of me, saying all the while, if you just took one punch kid, you could be home by now, now you are gonna die, and I thought I was I can imagine standing up to a bully and he flees is a great victory, getting the hell beat out of you because you punched back though is not a whole heck of a lot of fun

I guess if it takes 2 adults to be sure no one "pranks" a scout into drinking pee, then Boy Scouts are pretty much out of the Charactor Building business I need examples of pranks that are harmless acts played for the fun of everyone involved. I realize I don't have much of a sense of humor over this. Search OldGreyEagle and snipe hunts if you don't know what did me in. I want to understand.

Exibar, what type of Leadership style do the SPl and ASPL exhibit? DO they order the kids around and treat them as inferiors or do the leaders show respect to the scouts? I think we established that respect is earned, have the youth leadership earned the respect of the younger scouts or is the "ignoring" the result of a quiet rebellion against a leadership style? I mentioned this because you say the newest scouts are not the problem, its the ones who are most familiar with the leadership scouts, perhaps they don't like the leadership style being used. Then again you could have a bunch of unmanageable brats, you will have to observe quietly to assess

Well then, Welcome back Kudu

is this where I say get back to work Kudu, or are you done with the project that caused your sabatical?

is this where I say get back to work Kudu, or are you done with the project that caused your sabatical?

take a look at this document, its the Guide to Safe Scouting http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf check out page 3 where it says: "Unit Responsibilities Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit." Of course the discussion is whether or not this is "Reptitive or serious" and on that point, opinions may vary. Note that it says the "unit Committee should review, not the Chairman of the Committee. OK OK OK, its one thing to post references and hit Control C and Control V to give you information. But what is going on here? There seems to be a whole lot ofanger in this story that seems more than a youth not wanting to wash pots and pans but I digress. The role of the Unit Committee is to support the Troop's Scoutmaster and assistants. The Unit COmmittee Chair and the Scoutmaster are equals in the Troop Set up, both are under the Instititional Head (IH) who may delegate the responsibliity of adult leadership to the Charter Organization Representative (COR) Only the IH or the COR can "suspend" a Scoutmaster. They do the hiring and firing of the positions. Now, if you have a mostly vacant IH/COR combination then there may be a situation where the COR has told the Committee Chair he should run the Troop as he sees fit and if the CC is backed by the IH/COR there isn't much you can do. Hopefully this is a situation where cooler heads may prevail, an apology is given and we all move on. Having a scene like the Council Meeting from "Billy Jack" with insults raining in and papers/regulations flying around will most likley accomplish not a whole lot but negatives. As a complete aside, I find nothing wrong with having a troop policy of cleaning up completely after every meal and whether or not a pot is going to get cleanded when you get home doesn't excuse cleaning it after the meal, but thats just my opinion, I could be wrong I hate when that happens(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I certainly hope you are right Beavah, I found this on the Pennsylvania Department of Education Website The Pennsylvania Department of Education (PDE) does not discriminate in its educational programs, activities, or employment practices, based on race, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, disability, age, religion, ancestry, union membership, or any other legally protected category. Announcement of this policy is in accordance with State law including the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act and with Federal law, including Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967, and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. If you have any questions about this publication, please contact: Department of Education Bureau of Teaching and Learning Support Division of School District Planning and Continuous Improvement 333 Market Street, 8th Floor Harrisburg, PA 17126-0333 If the state of Pennsylvania is wrong, please contact the number listed above, I'd hate to have the whole state wrong Just for grins I found this on the Minnespta Department of Education website. This is a form that School Districts sign to attest they are in compliance to Federal Laws The undersigned hereby affirm that the above named school district is in compliance with the following state and federal laws prohibiting discrimination: 1. Minnesota Statute, section 363.03, Minnesota Human Rights Act, which prohibits discrimination in education programs and activities on grounds of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, status with regard to public assistance, sexual orientation, disability or age. 2. Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 USC 2000d., et. seq.; 34 CFR Part 100), which provides that no person in the United States shall, on the grounds of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be otherwise subjected to discrimination under any program or activity for which the district receives federal financial assistance. http://education.state.mn.us/mdeprod/groups/InformationTech/documents/EDForm/006688.pdf I don't see how a Public School in Pennsylvania nor Minnesota could charter a BSA unit as it would not be in keeping with these statements. However, if I am wrong, please explain it to me,I dont always understand these things

I don't think I would mind having a Peach Patrol, of course the Patrol Chaeer would have to be "We are the Pits!"

the COmmittee Chair of the troop is a Pediatrician who thinks that scouting is a fine outlet for the excess energy expened by ADD/ADHD youth. She frequently "writes" a prescription that the males join the troop to burn off excess energy and learn responsibility. When we go to Summer Camp she takes two foot-lockers, one for her stuff and another for the Troops Medicine. Frequently she comes on outings, its good to have a physician around At any one time about 50% of the troop is on Ritalin or Adderal and we figure the other 50% should be as well. We had thought about adding Ritalin to the Bug Juice and Valium to the coffee for adults. We usually have 2-5 Aspergers scouts as well as ADD so most of the adults know how to handle MOST cases. The extreme is easy, the parents have to attend and we are fine.

Acco, if I wear my Scouter's tie (the skinny green one) can I button the collar then?

we are talking about ingesting urine here. It doesnt matter what its called, Hazing, a Prank, whatever, its disgusting behavior that cannot be ignored. So, what is the response, serve the perps fecal laced brownies? Is that ok? If I bring a stick to a fist fight and you bring a knife to a stick fight and I bring a gun to a stick fight and you bring a bigger gun, where does it stop? Either there is respect (a hot topic right now it seems) for each other and property or there is none

So after they get "uniform" tents, do they then specify the optimal Feng Shui lay out for every campout? If the boys want them, then I am for it, if the adults think that by having "Troop" tents, that will cure a "personal responsibilty" issue, then they are wrong. How much money will this take? Do you have scouts who don't have the resources to get a tent? I have not heard much about youth talking about who has the nicer tent, I know one scout had his father canvas wall tent that took 2 men and a tenderfoot to carry and the kids loved it because it was so "old school". Now, I have my own prejudices, but when I see a Troop set up with all the same tents, all lined up in a perfect pattern, my first reaction is to shudder and steer clear of this OCD organization. Then again, I could be wrong

Scoutfish, this is from the School District where I live: "It is the policy of the Bethlehem Area School District not to discriminate on the basis of race,color, national creed, age, sex, ancestry, union membership, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, disability, or because the employe is a victim of a violent crime (including crimes involving domestic violence) in its educational and vocational programs, activities, or employment as required by Title VI, Title IX, Section 504." Now, since this is the policy of the school district following the laws cited, how could the School District run an organization which clearly does not allow Atheists or Homosexual? They cannot discriminate based on "National Creed" (religion, or lack there of) or Sexual Orientation. Read non-discrimination policy statements, they are all basically the same, what the BSA asks of Chartering Organizations cannot be done by public school districts