OldGreyEagle

pester, cajole, remind and perhaps wheedle all you want, but in the end, the certificate will say, Edward T Eagle, not Edward T Eagle et al. The boy has to do it himself and want it for himself

Lets not forget there is a BSA Indy racing car running around tracks this year. Yes, would have been better if it was on the NASCAR, but it is something. And no, it didnt cost the BSA anything I have to do this least someone not of our own comes in, sees the error and then castigates everyone for a simple error. There is no such thing as the GSA, not that I know of leastwise. There is the GSUSA, which is the acronym of the Girl Scouts of the USA

ah, but then again, what is reality? Just because we think, does that mean we are? Can anyone ever hold any belief that is not just "their opinion"? Early on we "knew" the Earth was the center of the Universe. That truth was incorrect. The Earth was known to be flat, we now know that the Earth is a sphere, (well not a real sphere, more of an Oblate but I digress) How are we assured that anything we "know" is actually reality? We don't, we just look for others who beleive in the same reality we do and try to muzzle those whose view of reality disturbs our reality. So, the only thing I know is I yam what I yam and thats all that I yam

I understand trying to keep Boy Scouts for boys (kinda obvious, huh?) But if you keep it unisexual and offer a program for 2 sexes, then you need to duplicate leadership, have adult leaders for the boys only group and then adult leaders for the girls group. Is this the time to need double the adults to run the same program? I can tell you from my Venturing experience, it may seem like a good idea to have the same committee and adults run two programs, but it typically works out poorly. If we are going to offer the same program to both boys and girls, then it just becomes a Co-Ed program at all levels and "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night!"

we know all brothers (and occasional sister) are equal, some are just more equal than others, naturally...

::wipes brow:: And here I thought we had another eponymous thread started...

A "360 Review" is a Possible Wood Badge Ticket in the 21rst Wood Badge Ticket Now, I wonder if as a result of a 360 review, a scouter decides that he/she lacks scoutcraft/woodcraft skills and embarks on a self study course that ends up with he/she having scout craft skills that are second to none, if any destractor to Wood Badge would be impressed? And to begin with "I am Just sayin' "

Welcome to the Forums pbiner Not all members are sound like Narraticong was, some are worse, some better sorta just like life (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

It used to be a popular refrain that if a scout doesnt know something, then its the fault of the adult leadership. Got to the point where it may have been overdone. However, if a scout who is Life can't tie required knots or do required lashings, the first thing to be inspected is the Troop program. Are opportunities available to use these skills, are the older scouts indeed teaching the skills.

Initially Sherm, I was for letting young ladies in the OA, but I am not so sure anymore. Take your requirments, Earn a Gold and satisfy the Camping requirments, those are great requirments actually. To earn Gold a Venturer has to earn a Bronze and do quite a few other requirements. I don't think its a stretch to say it would take most youth 12-18 months to earn Gold. If a young lady joins on her 14th birthday and take a year to get her Gold, she gets it on her 15th birthday and now its time for the OA Ordeal. So, the 15 year old young lady will go off with the mostly 12-13 year old boys who were elected. 15 year old young ladies and 13 year old boys, yeah, only a 2 year difference, but I think that is quite a difference in maturity. If girls are allowed in the OA, I predict in less than 5 years we will have a female National Chief, not that there is anything wrong with that

Never Give Up Never Surrender

So, the best Star Trek Kirk/Spock exchange ever: Spock, these cadets of yourshow good are they? How will they respond under real pressure? As with all living things, each according to his gifts. See, if we all understood that, how much better a place would be have?

Well, Lucas did put the science in science FICTION!

Beavah, if you are correct in your data, then there is a conundrum. If people are volunteering more today than ever before, how can people be so much busier that they cannot be Boy Scout leaders? If someone says they can't help at a Troop event because they are committed to the Salvation Army Soup Kitchen, I can see that, but thats not a reason given If more people are volunteering more hours than ever before, and the BSA is in need of Volunteers the issue may not be the spirit of Volunteerism ( I could be wrong, it happens) so then the issue has to be with the BSA itself, hmmm, I wonder what THAT could be

I do not know of many employers who allow their employees to work the hours the employees want I did not know Engineer61 is privy to my fathers work schdeule in 50's 60's and 70's aong with the rest of the world. To say the employees of today are so much busier than any preceeding generation is enabling them to be the self obsessed ego centric weinnies that the are

Heck Pack, in the greatest movie ever made, "Follow me boys" the bus is a couple hours from Chicago when it stops in Hickory (I always thought thats where Hoosiers was set, but I digress from my digression). The band leader says he want to get to Chicago before dark because of a busted tail light (which gives you a ticket even in daylight BTW) Later Whitey has to repel down quite a gorge to rescue the scout who didnt pay attention to WHiteys warnings. Where is that around Chicago?

Gern, you wrote something that perked my ears, and if you understand that, you are smarter than I, anyway you said: "...from already overworked parents" And just Gern, I sorta hear this thing many times, people are so busy today, peoples schedules are so full, etc Horse Hockey, This would seem to make my father and the other men who came home from WWII as men of leisure who had not much to do but volunteer and do good deeds, the good deed doers of the past and oddly enough, I dont remember that at all. My father worked a lot of hours, the most I got to see him was on Vacation and Scout Campouts. My mother was raising 4 kids without cable and microwave. All the fathers in the neighborhood worked long hours, when I started to caddy at the local Country CLub I was amazed to find men who had days off in the middle of the week and they played golf, no one on the block did, they worked and took care of their homes, that as all time consuming. I do not buy people are busier today than my parents and grandparents, I do buy people today are a whole heck of a lot more selfish with their time and energy and are self obsessed with a me first and screw you mentality. Again, not picking on you Gern, but your comment brought this out in my mind

Heck, I always wondered how they got to Honey Hill Beach in Wauconda (yes the Wauconda mentioned by Ray Stantz in Ghostbusters) from Chicago while doing a one day exploitation in preparation for their Concert. BTW SSScout wins the quote contest with "I have always loved you" Then again its the movies, In Planes, Trains, and Automobiles Steve Martin and John Candy drive from St Louis to Chicago and seem to stray often from Interstate 55 (thats the Double Nickel for you cool guys in the know and the Stevenson for the Chi peeps)if there were ever on it, well yes they were on it, they stay in a hotel just outside of the Chicago Land area) it takes them 2 days and its a 5-6 trip max, but I digress

These are my reasons, and I don't think they are political, but if you think they are, I apologize to Beavah As mentioned, there is Nature Deficit Disorder, Nature is outside, outside is dirty, dirt is bad , therefore Nature is bad. Well, actually, Nature is good, its just humans in nature is bad, which is odd since I thought we were natural I think Baby Boomers, as much as sometimes maligned, are the last "volunteering" group in America. We were raised on having Dad who were Rotary, Kiwanis, Lions, Knights of Columbus, etc. Our mothers were in the PTA, Ladies Auxillary of the Church, Garden Club, etc. And of course scouting. The current generation of new parents do not have a "Volunteer" ethic. Yes, some do, and they are great, but the prevailing concept is, for my kids activities, I want to drop them off and then pick them up, I actually dont want to be involved with them. The Cub Scout program changed because parents do not have the time to work with their children on something the child in interested in. Read that last sentence a few times, now that is depressing. A national program changed from being parent centered to Organizatin centered (Den Leaders doing advancements) because parents are too busy to spend time with their kids

{When asked what music is played at Bob's Country Bunker] Oh we got both kinds. We got Country and Western.

And I am sure CalicoPenn certainly means that in a non=sexual Boy Scouty two-deep leadership kind of way

I made the switch to "Crew" long time ago, I am not above saying Venure Crew myself, much to the delight of many. The other vocabulary adjustment I made was saying "Youth", not Boys. That helped a lot as well. One of the young ladies who was a charter member of the Crew shocked me last night at the Venturing Forum (you know, where Venturing adults get together for Supplemental Training, I think in Boy Scouts they call them "Roundtables" The young lady has been the DE in the District for 2 years, she has been a professional scouter for 4 years and I met her 10 years ago YIKES!!!

Moosetracker, Moosetracker, Moosetracker, and you were so close first you say "If you register as a Venturing Crew, and you have advisors, and you have a charter stating you are a Venturing Crew.. Then on the district roster you are a Venturing Crew.. If you do not register as a seprate unit but have are an older boy patrol and called a Venture patrol. You are a patrol. The whole definition of a Crew is basically they have no definition. Except they are for young people under 21 years of age, who present a good image to the community. If the Crew is meeting and working with the troop, that does not null & void their ability to be called a Crew." I may quibble a bit, its not that there is no definition, a Crew can be oriented to Outdoors, Sports, Arts and Hobbies, Religious Life or Sea Scouts, or they may be ecletic and dabble in a whole bunch of stuff that they the youth want to do so they plan it and do it. Then again, if you can do everything and anything, I guess I can see why you would say there is no definition. Then you say: "Also our Venture Crews have many options open..." and everything you list is true of a Venturing Crew, I still have no idea what a Venture Crew is In my experience, a Troop started Crew will fail. Why did BSA come up with Venturing in the first place? Because they wanted an older youth program that was Co-ed and youth lead and didnt necessarily have to go camping. Scouting was losing youth to programs that were Co-ed and geared for high schoolers, the Boy Scout Program levels at about 14 years old or so. So, if the Troop wants to do "more things" then they should do them. The only advantage to being a Venturing Crew is that the Crew can be Co-Ed, shoot pistols and any size caliper firearm and hunt. Well, and be Co-ed of course. The last thing a busy boy scout needs is another competing program. In my area, the best Crews are those with youth who are not Boy Scouts, they do not have to serve two masters, as I remember that can be tough Edited Part This is from Venturing Leader Specific Training: Venturing is a youth development program of the Boy Scouts of America for young men and women who are at least 14 years old (and have completed the eighth grade) through 20 years of age. Local community organizations establish a Venturing Crew or Sea Scout Ship by matching their people and program resources to the interests of young people in the community. The result is a program of exciting and meaningful activities that helps youth pursue their special interests, to grow, to develop leadership skills, and to become good citizens(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Sorry, totally confused Is it a Venturing Crew that the Scoutmaster did not want to start or a Venture Patrol. I keep seeing the phrse "Venture Crew" and as there is no such thing, I don't know what is going on I have to say that I realize that a Venture Crew exists in the Vocabulary the same was Class A does

Ok this is the paragraph The clarification is intended to provide leaders and parents the discretion to approve local activities for patrols/squads while eliminating hiking or camping outings without proper adult leadership and planning tools such as Tour Permits" See, when I saw that leaders and parents had the discretion to approve local activities for patrols/squads, I took that as anything that the local leaders and arents were up for was fine. the the line ..."eliminating hiking or camping outings without proper adult leadership and planning tools such as Tour Permits" ok, so you can't go Paintballing using troop equipment and not filling out a tour permit because it wasn't BSA related. You can't go without the correct number of adults to so any activity and call it a patrol activity