OldGreyEagle

been gone on vacation for a week, actually left last Friday after work, drove from Bethlehem PA to Clarksville Arkansas, getting in about 2pm. Visited with Dad and then off to Chicago on Wednesday. Walked a bit through the Route 66 museum in Pontiac Il and on to Elburn, il. Did a tour through the old neighborhood, went to the site of the Seminary I was in for awhile and saw Chicago Landmarks, SOldier Field, Field Museum, Wrigley Field, new Comiskey Park (Cellular Field) and saw my brothers. Even did a tour through the Notre Dame Campus in SOuth Bend on the way home. At dusk entering Pennsylvania I hit the deer, smashed the trucks grill pretty good but no injuries, except for the deer of course. Truck still works though And so back today to find out nothing much has changed. I dont find much wrong with teaching leadership, if the reason for teaching leadership is to get the boys out camping by patrols. But in honor of Aurora, Il nearby where my brother lives Party On

Been doing District Advancement for quite awhile now, used to be when there was an Eagle Project to get approved, one guy looked at it and approved it or went back to the scout for more details and they hashed it out. Then the District decided that it didnt want one guy holding the keys as it were and wanted the Advancement committee to approve the projects, not just one guy. So, the Eagle Guy would scan the Project workbook (see how long I have been doing this, they used to actually use the Eagle Leadership Book LOL) and email it to us on the committee and we would asl questions and the Eagle guy would talk to the scout and get back to us and so on and it was a nightmare, took way too long it was thought. So, we went to having the scouts present their project to the Advancement Committee, we have them once a month, Project approval first and then Eagle Boards of Review, no, the socut coming for Project review is not also getting a Board of Review. The face to face allows the committee to speak to the scout, ask questions, get immediate answers and generally the project is approved. If more information is needed, that information is specified and the scout is told who contact with the answers, he does not have to wait for the next month. If a scout wishes, he can just turn in the write-up, and we go through it, and have questions hunt down the scout and get answers. The face to face makes things easier but the scout can still just leace his write up as well

There was an adage passed around here quite a bit a while back Trust but verify Remember?

Seen on a T-Shirt at the Celtic Classic (Home of the North American Highland Games Sept 24-26) It's Called a Kilt If I was Wearin' Anythin' under it, then it would be a skirt!* *Besides me brogues

"Generalizations are never good and usually incorrect." Ed, is that a generalization? just sayin' I don't know if generalizations are correct or not, but the sub 40-45 year old set does not appear to be in touch with their Volunteer side in any aspect. Many volunteer organizations have an average that is creeping up because the "new blood" is not coming as it should

And I was just about to search for that Socrates quote myself, I remmeber a Great Great Great Grandmother, she was three times great I think who knew the world was comming to end with the flappers of the 20's...

Just thinking a bit Seems a few people think its ok to bend the Uniform Guide, others on other threads think its ok to bend rules and policies as long as it benefits the kids Ever think there is a relationship to the overall "second class" status some perceive scouting to be when compared to band, sports, etc because the adults running the program don't respect the program as much as sports coaches or music teachers respect theirs and allow albeit minor, variations?

"Some of the T-2-1 requirements are sorta outdated and don't apply in some troops..." One could take this as an indictment of an Liberal Arts Education

"there is nothing like a nice piece of hickory" Nor a nice canvas tarp http://www.equipped.com/tarp-shelters.htm looks like the makings of a great patrol competition, who can make the best tent with the same size piece of "tarp" (The kind the Government don't use but I digress)

What lesson did you learn from the Prodigal Son?

I can do The Cremation of Sam Magee Casey at the Bat Mudville Nine The Voyageur The Ballad of WIlliam Sycamore A Rainy Day in Camp curent favorite is "Leetul Bautiste" That is all fom memory, I had down Polonius Advice to Laertes and the Henry V "Band of Brothers" Speech down but it reallt doesnt rhyme and the others do When I do a Poem, I get comments from adults and youth as to how can I rememeber them, and I ask who their favorite sports team and their starting line up and show them remembering can be done. Favorite story from my youth was the Scoutmaster who found a rare bird so rare they called it a Rare-ee and the trouble he had getting rid of it as it doubled in size every week(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

the requirements from joining to First Class are nothing to sneeze at, even with what some regard as an Accelerated program, it still is expected to take one year to get to First Class. Then add in the requirments to get from First CLass to Eagle. There is 1 year and 4 months of POR (POSITION OF RESPONSIBILITY) to do. If the Troop (Not BSA mind you) does not require much of the scout for the POR, then that is not the BSA's issue If the question is should we demand more, no, we shouldnt, we should demand that the requirments that are in force are enforced Then there would be no issues

I certainly have to say I had never realized that words that seemed plain and direct to me can be seen to mean so many things I had never thought of before

Hey Kudu, you are right and I was wrong I didn't understand what you were saying, I was too locked in on EDGE as the Educational Model, not the Leading EDGE so I apologize for my misundertanding, I was wrong I was looking up information on Leading EDGE and apparently the words mean the same, Explain, Demonstrate Guide and Enable. I truly wish the second E was not Enable, an "Enabler" does seem to have picked up a less than savory image these days, but it is what it is. These are examples of EDGE Leadership and how to teach it EXPLAINING STYLE OF LEADERSHIP "Jim, you and Brad will need to go to the dining hall at exactly 4 P.M. to pick up our food for dinner. Are you good with that?" Ask: What style was used here? (Explain) How can you tell? (Very exact directions with lots of detail.) Would this be a good style to use with a Tenderfoot Scout? (Yes.) With a Star Scout? (No, though someone might suggest it's a good style if the Scout were new to the troop and its culture.) DEMONSTRATING STYLE OF LEADERSHIP "Let's hold up on our hike for a minute. I'd recommend we all take a moment to drink some water. No one wants to get dehydrated. (Take a drink yourself.) I noticed a while back that some of you were pulling the leaves off the branches as you pushed the branch out of your way on the path. We're a Leave No Trace kind of troop. That means no one should be able to tell we'd been by here. I've been taught to push the branches down, gently, so the branch doesn't break, but also so it doesn't bounce back into the face of the Scout behind me." Ask: What style was used here? (Demonstrate) How can you tell? (Described what he does and role models the behavior.) Would this be a good style to use with a Tenderfoot Scout? (Yes.) With a Star Scout? (Yes, especially if the Star Scout is new to hiking.) GUIDING STYLE OF LEADERSHIP "Jack, the patrol set up camp as a group on our last trip. I noticed you did a nice job. I think you can set up your tent by yourself this time. Pick out a good site and pitch your tent. If you need some help, I'll be over here with the new guys." Ask: What style was used here? (Guide) How can you tell? (Indicates confidence in Jack's growing skill, gives him a few reminders, and offers his assistance if called upon.) Would this be a good style to use with a Tenderfoot Scout? (Yes, assuming they are doing well in this skill area.) With a Star Scout? (Yes, if the Star Scout is still learning this skill, but not if he is highly skilled in this area.) ENABLING STYLE OF LEADERSHIP "Mike, you've really got your first-aid skills down. I'd like to have you go through the first-aid class with Ted and Juan and give them some pointers on tying band-ages and splints." Ask: What style was used here? (Enable) How can you tell? (Expressed confidence in Mike's skill, gave him an opportunity to share his skills and deepen them through teaching others.) Would this be a good style to use with a Tenderfoot Scout? (Yes, if Mike was really good. But chances are that Mike is still learning and not fully skilled.) With a Star Scout? (Yes.) WOW, EDGE as Leadership, I think it works well, well except for that Enable part, like I said

"...why do we explicitly allow and encourage non-scouting community members on Eagle Boards of Review?" the other aspects have been answered except for this one if we explicitly allow and encourage non-scouting community members on Eagle Boards of Review, does this not mean that for Non-Eagle Boards of Review Scouting members of the Community are to be used? How to you get to be a Scouting Member of the Community? By being registered I think that covers it

Remind me again the total percentage of Sea Scouts to BSA membership?

Beavah, I apologize up front for this: "...that they're nominally supposed to be Committee Members." Its not a nominal thing, the Board of Review Members are supposed to be registered Committee Members, thems the rules and to the original poster I have to say that the use of "parents" who are not registered Committee members is wrong, not right, against BSA policy however you want to say it Remember, the function the Board of Review is as much a review of the Troops program as it is the Scout. That's why the Scoutmaster and Asst Scoutmaster's are not allowed in, so the youth feels free to talk. It takes the Troop Committee to understand what is going on in the Troop Now, would I use an unregistred parent for a Board of Review if it would help out a youth? yeah. I would. But I would certainly not want it to be common practice either

I don't see Boy Scouts demanding attendance, but I do see us requiring participation and no, they are not the same thing. For a Scout to Advance he has to do X number of things, acquire X number of skills and perform adaquately in Positions of Responsibility. For the scout to accumulate skills and to demonstrate those skills he will have to participate in Patrol or Troop outings. To advance beyond First Class he has to adequately fulfill a Position of Responsibility. He may not have to attend a certain percentage of meetings or outings (as to have a required percentage is against National Policy) but he certainly has to be sure his responsibilty to the Troop is adequately discharged and this is the participation that determines if he is doing his job. I think if we had more participatoin and less attendance, things might be better off

I checked the National Youth Leadership Training Staff Guide, it says this about Leading EDGE: "The Leading EDGE acronym describes the behavior of a leader as the team moves through the model. The EDGE acronym is used to describe a process for skills transfer." "...a process for skills transfer." Sounds like an Educational Model to me I do not think you want to use the NYLT Curricula to make a point that BSA wants to kill the Patrol Method

""Fake Leadership always defines the Patrol Leader and his Patrol within the context of the whole Troop: Sitting in a PLC meeting or cooking and cleaning under adult EDGE supervision, rather than organizing their own Patrol Adventures." EDGE is an educational model, it is not a supervisory model, EDGE cannot be used to supervise anything A Patrol Leader can certainly use the EDGE model to teach his patrol skills they will need for their Patrol Outing however(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

What a World, we have a gung ho young scout taking heed of advice from a near death bed Eagle and the father has to tell the gung ho guy to watch to whom he shares his goals Is this a tad goofy or what?

Powder Horn is a Resource Course, it is not Skills instruction,its not Leadership Theory, its how to present the activities of the Ranger Award in your area Least that's how its done around here

WOW A Council Rule with actual BSA back-up Who Knew?

I do not understand why anyone would put roadblocks in the way of advancement. The Scout meets the requirements and moves on. How quickly he meets the requirements depends on his comments and how quickly the troop signs off on him meeting the requirements, that's it Lets see, in a country that is supposed to celebrate individual acheivement, we say hey kid, you are being too sucessful too fast? And we have people who think that's ok? Sorta like Quality Control, we certainly would not want Quality to get out Control, the results would be disasterous(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Changed how? I know in the Council I serve you must be an NRA instructor to do any of the shooting sports, Rifle Instructor for Rifle, Shotgun for Shotgun... could that be it?