OldGreyEagle

You know there are zealots and then there are truly passionate scouters whose only goal is deliverying the program as best they can. Zealots can be identified rather easily, they are the ones who don't think the same way you do

I beleive its just before the paragraph explaining a National Income Tax and after the paragraph on the separation of Church and State...

I asked when did the BSA become Basic Simple Activities and no one answered. I will We became Basic Simple Activities because that's what the majority of adults want to do. Yes, there are the strapping virile men of the Forum who could teach Bear Grylls a thing or two, but thats far and few. Kudu in his recruitment presentation promises danger, how many adults follow through on that promise? How many times do we tell the parents, don't worry, nobody will get hurt. WHat do the youth think about that. Maybe the response should be, don't worry, we have two Paramedica along on the trip so when people get hurt they will survive Of course presenting a more "dangerous" program means more training and costs but thats ok, right?

You do know that there is no such thing as Webelos III right? It was said in jest, I think, Venturing is a lot more than just trips, there is a difference between Venturing Crews and Venture Patrols This last statement may sound harsh, well , yes it is harsh but its simple. Either the parent's of today's youth are willing to support their children or they are not. Either recruit enough help or drop the program, I do not see National's role as making our lives easier, its supposed to present programs that are youth centered. If we get to a point that we don't have the people to do the job, I am not sure it's BSA National's job, its society's for producing a generation of parents who don't give a rats butt about their progeny. ANd that may be the crux of the matter, forget political positions, are there enough people willing to support a volunteer program for their children or not

the BSA already has a split program in Boy Scout Troops there is the New Scout Patrol There is the Veteran/Regular Patrol There is the Venture Patrol Each has in it a specific age range and activitie

The thought of the difficulty of recreating the 1937 Jamboree struck me, why is it all the things Beavah listed are unauthorized? Not so long ago the NFL was rumored to stand for the No Fun League When and Why did BSA become short for Basic Simple Activities?

Geez doc you thought I was serious about that?

Kudu, you know over the past month or so I have many posts from other posters giving you and your ideas much support. As I recall I think I made one of them. Does denigrating the Cub Program serve your message any purpose?

Well, a catapult/trebouche contest is such a natual that I hesitate to mention it, but I did Have a Javelin Catch, that sounds like something Gladiators would do, its a twist on the Egg toss, have the boy gently toss back and forth and the winner are the two whose javelin travels the greatest distance without hitting the ground (O yeah, use pool "noodles" for javelins. PS for extra fun have the patrols bring their own customized javelins, built from 6 foot pool noodles of course (Wormser from Revenge of the Nerds anyone?)First Prize for distance and another for "decoration" Have the patrols build and bring a Chariot and race them, either together a la Ben Hur or against the clock (and you didnt think I could make a movie reference older than the Revenge of the Nerds) Have an axe toss, make up a Hun's shield for the target and use real throwing 'hawks to see who can make it stick the most times For first aid, give them a gladiator who was just run over by a chariot (scenario wise only of course) have them assess, splint, bandage, whatever and transport the patient to the "hospital" Teach the staff latin phrases and use them as it fits Carpe Diem "Seize the Day" Tempus Fugit "Time Flies" etc The Campfire has to be started with Greek fire

Awhile back I attended the Winter Kick-Off of sports at my son's High School. The basketball team, both boys and girls, the swim team, the wrestling team, the volleyball team, the rifle team (my son was on it)and I think thats it. Then they introduced the Cheerleaders. The senior Co-Captains were introduced last the loudest applause was for the Senior Cheerleader who came out holding a 3-4 month infant in her arms both dressed in a Cheerleader outfit. The Students cheered wildly, I noticed the parents not so much. I learned the baby was the cheerleaders and she was back in school with the baby watched over by a combination Grandparents Home Ec, etc. In one regard I thought it was pretty nice the student was able to finish High School and still be a Cheerleader, but then I thought about all the Freshmen, Sophamore and Junior girls who weer there. How many would see the reaction of the crowd and think "Boy, if I had a baby I would be as popular as she is!" Or "My parents tell me sex before marriage is wrong, but look at the fun she is having, my parents are just getting in the way of me having a good time" I don't want to have people turn their backs on a youth who needs help. Well, 2 youths who need help but I also struggle about making this the center of attention and celebration to the point others want to join in on the fun as well

awhile ago the troop took a trip up to lake placid in the winter. We watched the guys (not our troop guys, other guys) going off the Ski jump. The next guy up would stand and the gate and sometimes they would race right down and other times they would almost sit on the edge, like a bird on a perch and then almost imperceptively lean forward and slide down. Afterard we caught up to a few and I asked why the differing styles especially since its wasnt like a personal style, a guy who would start right down one time would sit still for awhile the next time. The guy said it "depends" on the wind, the air, the conditions, the inner calm or lack thereof the skier. The intonation of the coach, who was next in line, etc, Then in all seriousness he said it depends on the gestalt. I think that sums it up, when do you test? It depends on the gestalt and that will be different based on so many different things

Scout salute to the Eagle an assist to the Parents and all who made it possible

I have often heard the medical model, see one, do one, teach one, as the road to sucess. I alwaya wondered how that worked with Heart Transplants Nothing will reinforce a skill or knowledge as teaching it, but you DO (emphasis) have to have the skill or knowledge in the first place

"A Brief Morality Play" (the scene opens at the Crew's Open House, the Advisor of the Crew is explaining to the Parents what Venturing is about) Advisor: While the youth are in the other room getting to know the Crew, I wanted to let you parents know that Venturing is part of the BSA and that the Mission of the BSA isto prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetime by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law." From our leadership training I can tell you the primary purpose is forming responsible and caring adults. The Crew has a set of By-Laws governing behavior and the youth themselves adjudicate disgressions. The Ages of Venturers is from 14-21, the younger youth have the older ones as role models. Oh, ignore that crying baby, the 16 year old non-married mother is one of our Vice-Presidents and she brings him to all the activities, the kids love having him around... Fade to Black If the above will float in your community, then keep her around for as much as she can do. However, I have always thought I was in a pretty open community and the giant sucking sound I would hear would be parents grabbing youth and departing max snell and post haste

Just a thought, Autism and Rheumatoid Arthritis are bona fide medical conditions and the BSA does have a policy when condsidering such youth for advancement

the camp we normally go to has IOLS, the Camp COmmissioner "runs" it. He asks for help at the Sunday Campfire, getting people together who know their stuff and then during the week they do the sections,trying to accomodate the presenters schedule, by Saturday they are done

It may just be me, but I have never placed the Holocaust and being called stupid as equal

Perd, consider http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=269569 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=269602 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=269376 Take a look at the date and comment on the second to last post, the whole eponymous thing was posted almost 9 months ago, that was the point of bringing the posts forward. I was asked where was it written and so I provided the reference. I was asked not to follow a zero tolerance policy and at the time that request was made, another eponymous post was open and remains open http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=297467 There is another "rule" that I follow, its an adaptation of Godwin's Law. As soon as a poster accuses another of being Hitler, Gestapo, SS, or Nazi's or related I close the thread and declare the side that posted such a comparison the loser. If the best you can do is call the other side a Nazi, then you don't much in the tank argumentwise

So I am to assumme that I never said "is that at the point of being signed off the boy has demonstrated the skill once, in that easy controlled environment." I never said you sign the boy off if he does the skill "once" not did I ever say anything about an "easy controlled environment" Moving on and not addressing a topic is the same as admitting it, so thats the story here folks rephrase another poster's comments to fit what you want it to and then continue on with the thread as if what you rephrased is true and people will believe

Beavah such a long post and you never did address where I said "...signed off the boy has demonstrated the skill once, in that easy controlled environment." So in abscence of denial or explanation the only alternative is acceptance I had thought the purpose of this thread was the purpose of a Board of Review, Moosetracker made a comment on another thread about the Board of Review was a time to review/evaluate or audit the program which was challenged by the original poster. How we got on this topic demonstrates the Forrest Gump's Feather Theory better than most I do not beleive I ever explained when a scout should get signed off by a troop. Or how either, by youth, adult, its up to to the unit. WHat constitues profeciency? I leave that up to the troop, they know the boy, its up to them. My comment has been, consistently, that once (and that is once as in once apon a time. not the numeral 1) has been learned the troops program gives the scout opportunity to use that skill. When the requirment involving that skill gets "signed off" is up to the unit Consistently saying something that is not true does not fabricate truth

"What I hear OGE sayin' (an I might be hearin' him wrong) is that at the point of being signed off the boy has demonstrated the skill once, in that easy controlled environment." Beavah, apparently you have as much trouble understanding me as I do you Where in any post did I say that you sign off a boy who has demonstrated the skill once in that easy controlled enviroment? Maybe it would help me understand your thought process if you lead me through what I posted that lead you to the above quote Demonstrate the skill once? Where? When? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

No, I don't have it backward

see, the argument of testing at boards of review always confuses me. I hear that the reason for the retesting is to be sure the scout knows his skill, which is even more confusing. Once a scout learns a skill, the troops program should afford him so many opportunities to use that skill that there is no reason to doubt the skill is learned. If the troops program does not allow opportunities to use scout skills, why teach them. I think we have accepted that scout skills are not a once and done kind of thing, its a skill the scout needs to have for the future. Unless he plies that skill, it could be lost so its the troop's program that gives him the time and place to use that skill.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm#VI 1260 Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."62 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity

The intent of this post is to show examples of why an adult could think that a purpose of the Board of Review is to evaluate the Troops program http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-625.pdf on page one we read "The board of review is how the troop committee (or the Eagle Scout board of review) tracks the progress of a Scout to determine his understanding of the ideals of Scouting and how he applies them in daily life in the troop. If the board of review is for rank advancement, the board will satisfy itself that the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for that rank and will review with the Scout the requirements for the next rank. The board of review is also a way of reviewing the troops progress. This review is not and should not be an examination or retest of skills learned. Rather, it is an attempt to determine the Scouts attitude and his acceptance of Scoutings ideals, both in the troop and outside of it. The board should get a sense of the importance that the Scout attributes to Scouting in his home life, at school, and in the troop. It also shows how the Scout perceives the troop and its adult leaders" I think the key phrases here are: "The board of review is also a way of reviewing the troops progress" "It also shows how the Scout perceives the troop and its adult leaders" these two phrases are not about the boy but the troop then on page 5 we find the following "Other aspects of the board of review should never take a back seat. This is the time to ask the Scout how he feels about the troop program, whether he feels he is learning anything, whether he is having fun." here the key phrase is " how he feels about the troop program," then here http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx Question: What is a board of review, and what is its primary purpose? Answer: The troop committee conducts a board of review to periodically review each Scout's progress, from Tenderfoot through Life ranks, to encourage him, to learn whether he is enjoying his Scouting experience, and to evaluate the unit's effectiveness in conducting the Scouting program to benefit him. The review presents a good opportunity to monitor the Scout's advancement and keep him on track. It also gives unit leaders a chance to measure the effectiveness of their leadership. The troop committee appoints three to six individuals to conduct the board of review. The Key phrase here is It also gives unit leaders a chance to measure the effectiveness of their leadership. In the 2008 printing of theAdvancement Committee Policies and Procedures BSA publication, this is the first paragraph after the title "Boards of Review" "A periodic review of the progress of a Scout is vital in the evaluation of the effectiveness of the Scouting program in the unit. The unit committee can judge how well the Scout being reviewed is benefiting from the program. The unit leader can measure the effectiveness of his or her leadership. The Scout can sense that he is, or is not, advancing properly and can be encouraged to make the most of his Scouting experience. Given the above, I can see where some adults would think the Board of Review can also be a time to evaluate the troop program (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)