OldGreyEagle

Curently there is a great program for a 19 year old Assistant Scoutmaster who is also a Venutring Crew member, Full adult registration is paid as well as full youth registration separate for each program

Maybe a good idea, maybe not A few years back, a Minnesota Vikings Football player Korey Stringer died of heat stroke during summer camp I think it was. Does anybody know how it was resolved? Was any guilt assessed agianst anyone? I know his death changed a few practices, but was any blame to any individual ever assessed? Every year I seem to hear about some football player, high school or collge who dies in August Drills due to weather/heat related complicaitons. If you have closed to such a tragedy, how was it resolved? Any lawsuits? What was said and done and who/what prevailed. Doing anything physical requires physical exertion, what precautions are prudent? It would be nice if every person on s trip was an EMT, even beter a paramedic, wait, maybe Physician Assistant... At this rate perhaps every outing should have a fellowship trained Emergency Services Physician along, wait, make that two, in case the first Doc is the injured party. What do you consider prudent precautions?

Oh excuse me your honor, youths

A situation occurred back when I was Distrct Advancement Chair. A scout in the troop I serve was arrested for possession of stolen property and conspiracy charges. It seems he had 4 stolen lap tops in his bedroom when the police came calling. He was just about 18 and there was no time to "let it ride" we either did the Board of Review for Eagle before the time ran out or he didnt make Eagle. I asked about an extension and was told no by COuncil, it didnt fit the reasons for extension. Iknew the kid, I could not conceive of him being in on anything criminal, but yet one wonders. He said he didnt know the computers were stolen, he was putting on software for the guy who actually did steal the items I went ahead with the Board and the youth was awarded Eagle, and 9 months later all charge were dropped against him, there was no proof he knew ths was stolen merchandise. I made the right call, I think. Had he confessed or been convicted at trial, I would be the heel. I THink about that alot

Oh boy, I can't beleive this, I think this is three times in a row I agree with Beavah and this time I am in opposition with FScouter... I re-evaluated the situation and unfortunately Beavah is correct http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/25-878.pdf Check page 3, G"uide youth leadership.Youth officers are elected and trained to lead, plan, and make decisions regarding the implementation of crew programs and activities.They should serve long enough to have successful experiences. The crew president should appoint a committee to draft the crew bylaws." Clearly ByLaws are part of the Venturing Crew. One could make the argument however that the By Laws are to come from the youth as the Crew President (Youth) is to appoint the By Laws COmmittee but it doesnt say that the Crew President could not appoint adults either. But the issue is still that if the Youth Lead Venturing Crew has by laws, could not the Youth Lead Boy Scout Troop also have by Laws and the answer is, heck, I don't know I have always been against by laws as most of the time they are used more as a club to whack people over the head with than anything else, but thats just my experience. Other may find them helpful. To mimic Venturing Crew By Laws they need to come form the boys and are implemented by the boys or should as there is no prohibition on adults doing it and if there is no prohibition, it is allowed, I guess

Why was Reggie Bush asked to return his Heisman Trophy?

We as leaders need to look at what we do and why we have the "rules" we come up with OK, so the Troop I serve goes white water rafting from time to time. At some point in the distant pass, some one decided that you had to pass the first class swim test to go White Water Rafting which at face value sounds reasonable and perhaps back then it made sense. I don't know if we changed outfitters, but now when we go on a "White Water" trip, we are just as likely to have 7-8 year olds along with families filling out the trip. We make sure the 17 year olds cam swim but the outfitter says everyone put on a PFD and lets get in the water. Do we look stupid or what?

long time CPAP user here, I bring my battery to the dining hall, charge it during the day and use it to sleep at night. It works alright. At cabin campouts I plug in. First time I was used it at a cabin a scout saw it and asked if it made a lot of noise, t which an older experienced scout said it can't be louder than Mr GreyEagles snoring, that is epic I didnt know Scouting had so many volunteers that medical issues were sufficient reasons to dismiss one who want to help

Well, this is the internet and one would not want to fall victim to the Pierre Salinger Syndrome Next, I have to say something that may sound like an attack to the new posters and I do not mean it was an attack, but I also think it may help their understanding of the dynamics of the group. We have had Trolls in the site before, people who come in and ask questions and lead us in circles before they either reveal they are college students doing a paper on group dynamics or experimenting with the racist bigots that frequent scouting, or something equally unpalatable. As a result, some of us are leary of new comers who ask questtions and do not seem familiar with the program that their stated experience would indicate. Being Scouters and scouts people are pretty much accepted at face value, but if the new one stumbles a bit on explanations and show confusion on scouting hierarchy, then intruder alerts go off and people "spider sense" starts to tingle. Some are better then others, some have no clue but experience has taught us that not all who come here looking for information are always who they state they are. So, if you feel you have been mistreated and are an honest Scouter I apologize if anything I have done offends or insults you, My only defense is past history and while many struggle to escape their past, few succeed

Aw Moosetracker, no comment on the Bert and I reference? I thought for sure you would say something

I don't think we want the 1911 version of scouting. I know I don't. One of my Christmas presents this year is Applewood Bucks reprint of the 1911 Boy Scouts of America Official Handbook for Boys. I paged through the thing and have begun to read it in earnest. I found this interesting, the first two chapters were Scoutcraft and Woodcraft and the title of Chapter 3 is Campcraft. Chapter 3 starts on page 145 and on page 153 there is a paragraph on Leadership, it reads: The most important thing about a camping party is that it should always have the best of leadership. No group of boys should go camping by themselves. The first thing a patrol of scouts should do when it has determined to camp' is to insist upon the scout master accompanying the members of the patrol. The reason for this that there is less likely to be accidents of the kind.that will break up your camp and drive you home to the town or city. When the scout master is one of the party, all of the boys can go in swimming when the proper time comes for such exercise, and the scout master can stay upon the bank or sit in the boat for the purpose of preventing arcidents by drowning. There are also a hundred and one things which will occur in a camp when the need of a man's help will show' itself. A scout ought to insist on his scout master going to camp. The scout master and patrol leader should be present, in order to settle the many questions which must of necety arise so that there may be no need of differences or quarrels over disputed points, which would be sure to spoil the outing In 1911 the BSA did not want patrols camping alone? Without an adult? The dumbing down of the BSA sure started much sooner that 1972. When did patrol outings start anyway? It wasnt part of the original program. I hope that innovation hangs around

yeah Yeah, Yeah Achtung? Waffen Uniform Police? This passes for humor? In my opinion it does not

AA Associate Advisor (Explorer Post) . ADC Assistant District Commissioner . AFAIK As Far As I Know Internet folklore AOL Arrow of Light . AOM Award of Merit . APL Assistant Patrol Leader . ASPL Assistant Senior Patrol Leader . ASM Assistant Scoutmaster folklore BCSR Boulder Creek Scout Reservation psc BL Boys Life Magazine folklore BLT Basic Leadership Training see also CBLT, CSLBT BOR Board of Review . BSA Boy Scouts of America . BSA Baby Sitters of America Common missunderstanding BSA Boy Scout Acronyms Other missunderstanding BSALT Boy Scout Adult Leader Training old BTW By The Way Internet folklore CA Assistant Cubmaster recharter form CBLT Cub Basic Leadership Training see also BLT, CSLBT CSALT Cub Scout Adult Leader Training old CC Committee Chairman recharter form CE Sometimes mistakenly used for SE mistake CL Cub Leader folklore CM Cubmaster . CO Chartered Organization (local org. who holds a unit charter) . COH Court of Honor . COPE Challenging Outdoor Personal Experience . COR Chartered Organization Representative . CR Chartered Organization Representative recharter form CS Cub Scout . CSLBT Cub Scout Leader Basic Training . CSP Council Shoulder Patch . CSR Cutter Scout Reservation psc DA Assistant Den Leader recharter form DAC District Activities Chairman ? DAM District Award of Merit ? DC District Chairman . DC District Commissioner . DD District Director . DC Den Leader Coach recharter form DE District Executive common DL Den Leader . DRP Declaration of Religious Principle . DS Discovery district psc EA Explorer Post Advisor recharter form FAQ Frequently Asked Questions Internet folklore FOS Friends Of Scouting . FYI For Your Information Internet folklore GSA incorrect form of GSUSA incorrect GSUSA Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. . IMHO In My Humble Opinion Internet folklore IH Institutional Head recharter form JLT Junior Leader Training . JLTC Junior Leader Training Conference . JOTA Jamboree on the Air . JOTI Jamboree on the Internet . KISMIF Keep It Simple Make It Fun folklore MB Merit Badge slang MC Master of Ceremonies inofficial MC Committee member recharter form NESA National Eagle Scout Association . NLS National Leadership Seminar. OA NOAC National Order of the Arrow Conference OA PSC Pacific Skyline Council . OA Order of the Arrow . PL Patrol Leader . PLC Patrol Leader Conference PN Peninsula District psc POR Policy, Organisation and Rules U.K., Australia PTC Philmont Training Center . QM Quartermaster . RT Roundtable . RTFM Read The Fine Manual Internet folklore SA Assistant Scoutmaster recharter form SE Scout Executive . SIT Staff in Training . SM Scoutmaster . SME Sustaining Membership Enrollment (like FOS) . SMF Scoutmastership Fundamentals Other acronym for BLT SPL Senior Patrol Leader . SQ Sequoia district psc SOR ScoutORama psc ST Stanford district psc TDC Trainer Development Conference TLA Three Letter Acronym common; non scouting TLC Troop Leader Conference (like PLC) folklore TTT Train the Trainer (replaced by TDC) old UC Unit Commissioner . UW United Way . WA Assistant Webelos Den Leader recharter form WB Wood Badge . WDL Webelos Den Leader not official WAGGGS World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts . WL Webelos Den Leader recharter form WLOT Webelos Leader Outdoor Training . WOSM World Organization of the Scout Movement . YIS Yours In Scouting internet folklore Not at all meant to be complete or accurate even, just a few thoughts over what the letters might mean

Not meant to be complete by any means: AA Associate Advisor (Explorer Post) ADC Assistant District Commissioner AFAIK As Far As I Know AOL Arrow of Light AOM Award of Merit APL Assistant Patrol Leader ASPL Assistant Senior Patrol Leader ASM Assistant Scoutmaster BCSR Boulder Creek Scout Reservation BL Boys Life Magazine BLT Basic Leadership Training BOR Board of Review BSA Boy Scouts of America BSA Baby Sitters of America BSA Boy Scout Acronyms BSALT Boy Scout Adult Leader Training BTW By The Way CA Assistant Cubmaster CBLT Cub Basic Leadership Training CSALT Cub Scout Adult Leader Training CC Committee Chairman CE Sometimes mistakenly used for SE CL Cub Leader CM Cubmaster CO Chartered Organization (local org. who holds a unit charter) COH Court of Honor COPE Challenging Outdoor Personal Experience COR Chartered Organization Representative CR Chartered Organization Representative CS Cub Scout CSLBT Cub Scout Leader Basic Training CSP Council Shoulder Patch CSR Cutter Scout Reservation DA Assistant Den Leader DAC District Activities Chairman DAM District Award of Merit DC District Chairman DC District Commissioner DD District Director DC Den Leader Coach DE District Executive DL Den Leader DRP Declaration of Religious Principle DS Discovery district EA Explorer Post Advisor FAQ Frequently Asked Questions FOS Friends Of Scouting FYI For Your Information GSA incorrect form of GSUSA GSUSA Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. IMHO In My Humble Opinion IH Institutional Head JLT Junior Leader Training JLTC Junior Leader Training Conference JOTA Jamboree on the Air JOTI Jamboree on the Internet KISMIF Keep It Simple Make It Fun MB Merit Badge MC Master of Ceremonies MC Committee member NESA National Eagle Scout Association NLS National Leadership Seminar. NOAC National Order of the Arrow Conference PSC Pacific Skyline Council OA Order of the Arrow PL Patrol Leader PLC Patrol Leader Conference PN Peninsula District POR Policy, Organisation and Rules PTC Philmont Training Center QM Quartermaster RT Roundtable RTFM Read The Fine Manual SA Assistant Scoutmaster SE Scout Executive SIT Staff in Training SM Scoutmaster SME Sustaining Membership Enrollment (like FOS) SMF Scoutmastership Fundamentals SPL Senior Patrol Leader SQ Sequoia district SOR ScoutORama ST Stanford district TDC Trainer Development Conference TLA Three Letter Acronym TLC Troop Leader Conference (like PLC) TTT Train the Trainer (replaced by TDC) UC Unit Commissioner UW United Way WA Assistant Webelos Den Leader WB Wood Badge WDL Webelos Den Leader WAGGGS World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts WL Webelos Den Leader WLOT Webelos Leader Outdoor Training WOSM World Organization of the Scout Movement YIS Yours In Scouting

AA Associate Advisor (Explorer Post) ADC Assistant District Commissioner AFAIK As Far As I Know AOL Arrow of Light AOM Award of Merit APL Assistant Patrol Leader ASPL Assistant Senior Patrol Leader ASM Assistant Scoutmaster BCSR Boulder Creek Scout Reservation BL Boys Life Magazine BLT Basic Leadership Training BOR Board of Review BSA Boy Scouts of America BSA Baby Sitters of America BSA Boy Scout Acronyms BSALT Boy Scout Adult Leader Training BTW By The Way CA Assistant Cubmaster CBLT Cub Basic Leadership Training CSALT Cub Scout Adult Leader Training CC Committee Chairman CE Sometimes mistakenly used for SE CL Cub Leader CM Cubmaster CO Chartered Organization (local org. who holds a unit charter) COH Court of Honor COPE Challenging Outdoor Personal Experience COR Chartered Organization Representative CR Chartered Organization Representative CS Cub Scout CSLBT Cub Scout Leader Basic Training CSP Council Shoulder Patch CSR Cutter Scout Reservation DA Assistant Den Leader DAC District Activities Chairman DAM District Award of Merit DC District Chairman DC District Commissioner DD District Director DC Den Leader Coach DE District Executive DL Den Leader DRP Declaration of Religious Principle DS Discovery district EA Explorer Post Advisor FAQ Frequently Asked Questions FOS Friends Of Scouting FYI For Your Information GSA incorrect form of GSUSA GSUSA Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. IMHO In My Humble Opinion IH Institutional Head JLT Junior Leader Training JLTC Junior Leader Training Conference JOTA Jamboree on the Air JOTI Jamboree on the Internet KISMIF Keep It Simple Make It Fun MB Merit Badge MC Master of Ceremonies MC Committee member NESA National Eagle Scout Association NLS National Leadership Seminar. NOAC National Order of the Arrow Conference PSC Pacific Skyline Council OA Order of the Arrow PL Patrol Leader PLC Patrol Leader Conference PN Peninsula District POR Policy, Organisation and Rules PTC Philmont Training Center QM Quartermaster RT Roundtable RTFM Read The Fine Manual SA Assistant Scoutmaster SE Scout Executive SIT Staff in Training SM Scoutmaster SME Sustaining Membership Enrollment (like FOS) SMF Scoutmastership Fundamentals SPL Senior Patrol Leader SQ Sequoia district SOR ScoutORama ST Stanford district TDC Trainer Development Conference TLA Three Letter Acronym TLC Troop Leader Conference (like PLC) TTT Train the Trainer (replaced by TDC) UC Unit Commissioner UW United Way WA Assistant Webelos Den Leader WB Wood Badge WDL Webelos Den Leader WAGGGS World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts WL Webelos Den Leader WLOT Webelos Leader Outdoor Training WOSM World Organization of the Scout Movement YIS Yours In Scouting (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

One of the most ground breaking attitudes suggested by "Self-Reliance" when it was published was that a man could determine his station in life by his actions. A poorer man did not have to accept being poor, he could move up "IF" he applied himself, worked hard, etc. The concept of self reliance is you are what you make yourself to be, not handed the necessities of life by someone/something else. A Man takes care of himself

I think I follow LNT Principles, but after reading all this, perhaps I don't. When I started with the troop, I met a pretty outdoorsy guy. He knew just about everything there was to know about "the woods". I noticed he always wore fluoroecent yellow, or lime or orange coats, hats, sweatshirts, etc. I aked him why. He is deputy chief of a Search and Rescue squad in Northeast PA. He has search dogs and spent some time at Ground Zero after 9/11 but I digress. He said the number 1 rule amoung Search and Rescuers is don't get lost and as they do most of their searching at night, he wanted to be visible. I embraced the idea. I want to be seen, both by people looking for me and by people/scouts who may be a tad perplexed and seeing my orange coat may be enough to keep them from going astray ok, I will wear it. My first repsonsibility is to the youth I serve and I will be visible to them. Now, we have at least one thread goin on about the propriety of the site, the politness or how scout like it is. I see this Topic as a test case. Some are against LNT, some are for LNT but at various levels or committment. Thats all ok, its a free country. Its the level of response that is interesting. SOme argue whether or not LNT is needed, that nature recovers quite well on its own and LNT is not needed. Then there are those who are beasically saying if you don't do extreme LNT, you are a totoal do do head and are pretty well stupid and have no excuse to live. And those who say if you do extreme LNT you are the do do head. Cam we discuss something and not have the basic argument be I am right because I know I am and you are wrong because you don't agree with me and besides you are to stupid, ugly, blind, etc to understand how stupid, ugly blind, etc you are? I would hope all BSA units who go into nature does not leave indications that a BSA unit was here last week, month, year. IS that asking to much?

I think someone asked about how to stop a runaway horse http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/yarn24.pdf (always wondered what if there was no handy building or wall, or tree but then again, I may be too critical) And how to stop a mad dog, http://www.bsatroop14.com/history/WhyABoyCarriesAStaff.pdf (of course any discussion of mad dogs demands the story from "Bert and I" about the two farmers talking: Farmer 1: I had to shoot my dog yesterday Farmer 2: Were he mad? Farmer 1: He weren't to pleased about it

I may be going over the top on this so if I am, let me know lets just say: I am a 13 year old boy and I am in class with another 13 year old boy whom I do not like. He smells funny, his mother dresses him funny, he has an obnoxous laugh and he combs his hair funny. He just is about the most repulsive critter on earth. One day in the school yard he says something to me that I object to, it may be something like "The Bears Suck" or perhaps even "The sky sure is blue today" and I take the occassion to whale on him until he has blood coming from his mouth, nose and the cut under his left eye. I get suspended from school and am told I have to apologize to the loathsome critter. I refuse, he had the beating coming to him and I will not say I am sorry because I did not do anything wrong. I have an adult who tells me that I don't have to apologize if I do not think I did anything wrong and that makes me feel great. I will not apologize, I don't feel the need because he deserved it. Sounds like a great society we are carving out for ourselves

After the last presidential election process I heard a good deal clamoring about ways to fix a broken system. First Iowa, then New Hampshire and others and before more than 10% of the nation's have had a chance to vote the field gets pretty well winnowed down pretty good, what a horrible system. Then again we all talk about how bad it is, and then stop and start talking how bad it is the next time A few years back my sister in law lived in dire fear and dread that Hillary Clinton would be president. She was sick that "That Dreadful woman" would become president. She couln't imagine anything worse. Oddly enough she is a strident Sarah Palin fan although I have no idea why The Front runners rarely win the nomination

Saints preserve us, I just found a topic I agree 100% with with Beavah!

Sorry if you see it as pandering I see taking care of our remaining wilderness areas as a good thing clem, if you "don't do as good a job policing" is that LNT's fault or your units? Kudu, I would have thought you would embrace LNT. One principle is to break groups up into smaller units (like patrols) and have those units camp far away from each other to minimize impact (like, I dont know, 300 feet?) and minimize travel between the groups (like, hey teacher leave those kids alone... all in all... oops distracted) I don't know anyone who says you can't camp in the woods, just don't make it reminescent of Sherman's march to the sea (for you Pack)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

in one regard I think the Scoutreach program was a great innovation and a poor one at the same time The Goal of getting scouting to places that did not or could not offer it is a noble goal. As a poster here frequently says, the devil is in the details. Scoutreach got scouting to many boys who needed it while also ruinning several traditional packs in the area.

See now I thought it was a GREAT idea to have the Venturing age drop to 13 and be out of 8th grade because there were some youth who were 13 when they got out of 8th grade and they couldnt join a Crew until they turned 14 and that could be in a few weeks, a few months or forever (3 months or more in a youth's time frame). The age change was made so a Crew could take the recent 8th graders on their summer superactivity and not leave anyone out because of a birthday in late August or something like that For the Outdoor Acheivement Awards, In a youth led organization, how can it be that the "administrative / tracking burden is too high for most units."? Like advancement, tracking the requirements is the youth's responsibility. The unit gives the information and then the Patrol/youths keep track. Should not effect the Troop . I like that the requirments are hard, not easy I like the way BSA has Handled Leave No Trace, lets look at the places Leave No Trace is Found: The Cub Program has Leave No Trace requirements for Tiger, Bear, and Webelos ranks In Boy Scouts The Second Requirement for Second Class is: 2.Discuss the principles of Leave No Trace. The Third Requirement for First Class is: 3.Since joining, have participated in 10 separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Demonstrate the principles of Leave No Trace on these outings. The Second Requirement for the Camping Merit Badge (Eagle Required) is: 2.Learn the Leave No Trace principles and the Outdoor Code and explain what they mean. Write a personal plan for implementing these principles on your next outing The Second Requirement of the Hiking Merit Badge is 2.Explain and, where possible, show the points of good hiking practices. including the principles of Leave No Trace, hiking safety in the daytime and at night, courtesy to others, choice of footwear, and proper care of feet and footwear. In Venturing the Ranger Award has as a Core requirement a section titled "Leave No Trace" In Adult training, the Inroduction to Outdoor Leader Skills course has a section on Leave No Trace and also a section on Campsite Selection that includes the Leave No Trace principle In Wood Badge, the Patrol Outing is to be done following Leave No Trace Principles, the model Campsite shown is to follow Leave No Trace Principles and the Course directors are to affirm they will follow Leave No Trace Principles Now, could the BSA do more with Leave No Trace? Certainly as could anyone who has ever camped but I wouldnt call their approach a failure of Institutional committment either(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

How do I say this delicately? Well, I guess I don't know so I will just say it straight up Scouting is for the Youth, But unless the Adults are not having a good time, the future is limited Now, having a good time is open to interpretation. I have had fun being a waiter at a Council event, helping run Camporees, etc because I was with people I respect and enjoy being around. When adult find little pleasure in scoting, there will be issues