OldGreyEagle

SR540Beaver, I think you have mentioned that District quirk before, that you could not do an Eagle Project for your chartering organization. Sounds so bizarre you wouldnt do something for the people who allow you to exist, but C'est le vie My son's Eagle Project was also a Flag Retirement, it was sponsored by the local VFW Post, first the troop sent a day replacing the American Flag at the graves of Veterans in the 5 cemetaries the post took care of and then he ran a 2 week drive of collecting American Flags no longer fit for display. He talked to the kids in the school band who were also scouts and they came up with music to play. Then he lead the Flag Retirement ceremony where 520 or so flags were retired with dignity and respect and he lead the clean up so when it was over, there was no trace something had hever neen held there. I thought it was pretty good, then again it was my son so I could have a bias, but many times its what occurs around the project that makes it an Eagle Project rather then just a service project Still working on why you couldnt do somehting for your CO, let me guess the Distrct Advancement Chair has been in the position since he got off the boat with Noah?

Tuoc, its not a question of pushing beliefs on others as far as I see it. I will try to restate what I said before Merlyn corrected me. You can be an atheist, that is your right. The BSA is a private organization that has the right to decide membership requirements, that is court tested and approved. The BSA has set its membership requirements to exclude gays and Atheists. That is its' member's right. Whether or not you see this as "correct" is of little consequence Will the BSA changes its membership requirements? Maybe, I don't know, but I do know that being Gay and Atheist and asking why you can't be a BSA member is like going into a Vegan Snack shop and telling the owner he could do so much better if he just had a small deli counter selling pastrami and prosciutto wraps. The Organization says no Gays or Atheists,we can do that. No amount of logic about how good a role model you are changes that.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

So on your honor as an Eagle Scout you are not cricket624? There are plenty of scientists who are not Atheists, if you do not wish to beleive in God, that is up to you And please do not make me wish I had closed this thread early one

Is it possible for two people to have their first posts in the same thread on a topic as indcendiary as this? Tuoc Syag cricket624 are you the same person?

One would think that the requirements to be taught needs to be approved by the merit badge counselor of record as well as the unit leader, or am I reading this wrong?

I thought we overthrew that goverment because that government would not live up to the treaty that it signed that called for UN Weapon Inspectors to , to, to, well inspect for weapons and after a myriad of "last chances" resolutions it was time to act. They really did allow UN Weapon INspectors in the country?

Oh, well then, carry on

Not what is going on, I tried the admonition and got into the Scouter-Forum OA section but the same word, as I copied it, was denied at the Jumpstart page I am not sure if this is comforting, but fear not, its not you guys who have the issue

Maybe Maurice Jones Drew could be on the hike, but his decision making ability regarding assesing injuries long distance certainly could use some sharpening

200? Damn, ours is 100... nothing like consistency Note, I am not saying 200 or 100 is the "correct' amount, just noting the difference

There is a huge difference from prescribing Adderall and Ritalin for every nervous twitch to classifying someone "Permanently disabled" due to fear of water and having a health practioner making that evaluation and documenting it. Much as in the Liability/Reality thread has anyone seen a youth permanently labeled hydrophobic with appropriate documentation?

Arrgghhhh, I am doing it again, quoting from the official BSA Literature http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-927.pdf Limitations Routine labor (a job or service normally rendered) should not be considered. Projects involving council property or other BSA activities are not acceptable. Projects may not be performed for businesses or an individual. Projects may not be of a commercial nature. Projects may not be a fund-raiser. Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials needed to carry out the project. Donors to projects must be made aware of what entity is benefiting from the project, and that it clearly is not the Boy Scouts of America. Any funds raised for a project and not used for the purchase of project materials must be returned to the donors. No minimum number of hours is required. The project is an individual matter; therefore, two Eagle Scout candidates may not receive credit for working on the same project. So, as long as a project is not done on BSA property or for a BSA activity, is not routine labor, not done for a business, individual or of a commercial nature or a fund raiser, its good. The US Army is not a Commercial Enterprise nor a business nor was this done for an individual. It was not done on BSA property nor at a BSA activity and it wasn't a fundraiser It's an Eagle Project PS National does not Approve Eagle Projects, they would only get involved if an appeal was done and that does not seem to be the case

in my experience those who cause the most trouble are those who don't think the same way I do, pretty much

Not to be an arrogant pedantic book thumper but these are the rules on Alternative Rank Requirements: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/earlyalt.aspx A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank because he is physically or mentally disabled may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met: 1.The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature. 2.A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability. 3.The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternate requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements. 4.The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements. 5.The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements. 6.When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician. 7.The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. 8.The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader. Seems like a lot of work if you are "just scared to get wet" , then again we have had many such stories presented here and for every story of pure hydrophobia there are many more stories about an adult who worked with a terrified of water youth and succeeded. Not being a Health Practitioner and never seeing the youth I can not pass judgement on his phobia, I can say the condition has to be permanent because thats what the rules say.

Aw Heck Moose, we must have been practically neighbors, I lived in Wood Dale and went to St Charles Borromeo in Lockport, went through Bollingbrook ever week. (It was a boarding school) Proud member of Sauk District, DuPage Area COuncil which I think is three fires council, anything close to you Norm?

the worst part is, I understand what Beavah is saying here

Maybe I didnt say this clearly, the patrol method has been around for quite awhile, in scouting for 100 years, but Leonides used it when facing the forces of Xerxes And it was in use when Odysseus tried to lead his men back from the plains of Illium, yes, sadly only Odysseus made it back, but the good news is no one sued Odysseus for negligence although one would have thought his dalliance with Circe could have been grounds. Boys figuring things for themselves is a good idea

BklynEagle Lawrence Welk? Nope, but Grandpa was Polish

The patrol method works because we know it works because it's inherent in boys/men. B-P used the patrol method because he saw that it worked on the streets of London, Gangs worked then, and Gangs work today, The patrol method is the gang method, just that Patrol is a heck of a lot more palatable than saying the Gang Method, the basis is the same. Think of some of the Greatest Movies of all Time (besides Follow Me Boys) they are gang/parol stories Dirty Dozen Kelly's Heroes The Magnificent Seven/Shichinin no Samurai Remember the Titans October Sky Youth coming together to overcome obstacles, its a timeless theme, who wouldnt want to be a part of something bigger than yourself? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Talk about disappointing, I thought this thread was spun from my comment in the "Leaders not following the Scout Law & Oath" "...and where he lived You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." I will try harder... oops, there is no try, only do or do not PS Sherm, I never thought of Yoda's syntax as all that unusual, it reminded my of my grandfather's speech patterns, you know "Throw me down the stairs my hat" or "Where the street car bends the corner around" I figured Yoda was just an immigrant and English was a second language, or 254th as the case might be

So, when the kid comes home from Football practice limping should the parent be surprised? If he breaks his arm during am awkward fall, can they claim they didnt know football could cause injuries? Are not parents responsible? Why do we have them sign permission slips to go on Class Field Trips, play football or anything? Parents and the Trip leaders, in any activity, have to be equally responsible

Hawk I want to say this as gently as I can, without attacking your post. All we have is an allegation of wrongdoing. I do not beleive posters are out of line asking for more details. To "know" somebody stole something I would need the Court Name and File number. It has been known on the Forum that people give us a situation and then later on more is added, and then more and more until we see the initial explanation was wildly exaggerated or toned down considerably. I don't think the mentin of libel had to do with posting on the forum, more of a comment on what could happen in normal real life if I, for example, went around telling people how that miserable Beavah was a cad, a thief and all around no goodnik and where he lived You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy See that would be libel then again, I am not a lawyer nor did I spend the night in a holiday inn PS: Apologies to Beavah, that was hyperbole to make a point

Borrowed form the New Tour Permit is the following: Unauthorized and Restricted Activities: The BSAs general liability policy provides coverage for bodily injury or property damage that is made and arises out of an official Scouting activity as defined by the Guide to Safe Scouting. Volunteers, units, chartered organizations, and local councils that engage in unauthorized activities are jeopardizing their insurance coverage. PLEASE DO NOT PUT YOURSELF AT RISK. So, is this a threat that liability insurance could be waived if someone determines there was something unoffical going on? At what point do we figure it ain't worth it and move in to other activities and BSA dies because it's too dangerous in a financial liability way. And even if I am sure the Troop I serve does things according to Hoyle, long time posters may remember the Troop that did "sod surfing" as an unofficial activity. If something went awry in one of their surfing trips, would the BSA stand behind them or distance themselves? I think the answer is, It depends, on the people, the courts, the judge, so many diferent people and all it takes is one to cause real problems. So, where does it end? We may stop going into the woods, not because the kids don't want to go, but because the adults can't take the risk and neither can the BSA. Is there a way to restore sanity or do we just wrap kids in 6 inches of bubble wrap and then something bad happens we get sued because 12 inches would have prevented injury?

As has been said, All scouting is local, in the COuncil I serve, a 19 year old who is a an assistant scoutmaster and a crew member registers once as an adult and then as a youth and pays full price both times as our registrar says thats the only way it can be done. He could be wrong

Lets see, Senior Patrol Leader (SPL) and Patrol Leader (PL)are elected positions by the youth. If a scout keeps getting elected, its really not his fault. Assistant Senior Patrol Leaders and Quartermaster's are selected by the SPL. The scouts who "need" the Positions need to be demonstrating their committment to the troop so that when the next SPL is elected their names come to him when he thinks of responsible scouts. If none of the above works, the scouts still "needing" positions should present themselves to the SPL and request to be an Instructor. Of couse, they need to have a scouting skill they want to instruct, such as knots, fire building, cooking, etc, that they can demonstrate to the SPL and Scoutmaster and then of course Instruct the troop when asked. The Advancement Chair can let the scouts know their options, but its not the Advancements Chair to secure positions, thats the youths job PS Having a scout setting a goal of Eagle by 14 is not by itself a bad thing. We want the youth to have goals and work towards them. This does also mean that the goal is attained by doing all the requirments in the proscibed manner of course(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)