OldGreyEagle

well, never forget, Obtuseness is a gift... Anyway, yes, we will soon have a batch of Scouts who wish to be instructors but a few have commented, how do I teach? Since we are having a discussion on how woefully poor EDGE is, I would like to know how you would teach youth to teach scouting skills. What has worked and what hasnt.

Yes, thats it, hints on how to teach youth to teach I apologize for my obtuseness Thank You shortridge

Ed, I think the idea is, if scouts are ready to start a merit badge, it is they, the scouts themselves, who should have checked out the Troop Library to see if it has the merit badge book and if it didnt, they would have already pooled resources to get the book or obtained one in any manner of scoutlike endeavour Now, to repeat the threads theme, How do you teach someone to teach a skill if you don't use EDGE

Well sure, the youth is the primary customer, I didnt think I had to explain that but ok, you are correct In the business world anyone for whom you do a service is a customer. That means that the Human Resources/Personnel Dept have employees and applicants as customers, etc. At times, The local DE is my customer as I provice program for her and other times I am her customer as she provides resources and tour permits to me. In any organization there are internal customers and external customers. Companies that do well usually have good track records at pleasing both but this is way too a business oriented discussion to be having in scouting

If the Customer is not the Youth, then many of us are sadly mistaken, The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. No reference to no one but young people What was that tag line that an old Wood Badge Beaver had, "If it ai'nt for the boys, it ai'nt worth a dam?" Substitute Youth for boys and I am in What is most valuable in Scouting? ranked from most impertant to least The Boy The Patrol The Troop The District The Council The Area The Region National Not that that list of sometimes forgotten

One of the things all the Education Majors used to say in College was "Those who can, do, those who can't teach" and then the follow up, "and those who can't teach, teach teachers to teach" So, IF we assume EDGE is bad for all the reasons that were stated in the parent thread and the parent thread is still there so please lets not discuss EDGE here. I would like examples on how you would tell a new crop of Boy Scout Instructors how to teach the skills they teach, perhaps one of these various topics, or any other scouty skill Tie a Square knot, Taut line hitch, Whip a rope Fold the American Flag Orient a Map Use a Compass etc How do you have your instructors instruct the above? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

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Beavah I am sure there are many things I do that you wouldn't, we will just have to put this on that list BTW, just a thought, do you think I mean one follows the EDGE model 1-2-3-4? As in you first Explain, then Demonstrate and then Guide and finally Enable? That I would never mix it up to DEGE? I am not sure that when EDGE is used, the formula is so rigid that it must be done explain, demonstrate, guide and enable in that order all the time Some situations lend themselves to doing two things at once, (yes it can be done) I see it as a mneumonic so those not comfortable with teaching have a quick reference tool.

I think I am the King of Anti-Hazing, or at the very least a member of the Royal Court and I never thought anything wrong, bad, or hazing in Exibar's accounting. If actions have consequences, then actions have consequences. I have to admit, were it I, I may be breaking camp and returning the whole lot of the trip home at 3 am rather than hang out with thieves and liars May be one of the reasons I have never been scoutmaster

I am not sure where this will go, but I must attempt: One of the Troop Instructors has been tasked with teaching how to build a fire. And apparently for no particular reason, other than for this example. The first thing the instructor will do is explain what tinder, kindling, and fuel is, and why they are needed. He then demonstrates how to makes a fire demonstrating the differences in a Teepee, log cabin, or lean to fire. He then asks the youth to gather the needed materials and make a fire of their own. Each boy that is. The instructor watches, with help of other instructors and they guide the youth through aranging and lighting the fires The group is then tasked with building the troop Campfire for the evening where the patrols will lead songs, skits, cheers, etc. OK, the guide explained, demonstrated, guided and enabled the youth in the manner of fire building. How is this detrimental to the scouting program?

I don't want to trivialize this, but its "Youth Protection Training", not that Youth Protection Training is not important, it is, but its offered on the net and you don't need to be registered to take it. If the parents have agreed to host the outing (such as it is), then have them take YOuth Protection.

As long as teachers give tests, there will be prayers in schools, public or otherwise(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I think Linus of Charlie Brown fame once said "Happiness is a warm blanket" The District I serve had a Spring Hike Or Ree for the entire District, it was well attended. For me, Hapiness was a good walk in a State Park surrounded by youth enjoying the day

So, welcome le Voyageur, it's been too long, n'cet pas? A friend of mine participated in a Cub Scout Hike on Saturday, these are some pictures http://www.troop362.com/pictures/?dir=.%2F2011_pictures%2F110402_hike-o-ree%2F that's mon bon ami Pierre Alloyoius DuMonde

So diveristy is bad? When did that happen? I could be misunderstanding and I do that Alot! What is wrong with " Scouts, Wiccans, the local church, the Red Cross Emergency shelter, the Buddhist ladies' quilting club, whatever" using a public building that all the people in those groups paid for using the prescribed method for reserving the room?

All confused here, if I remember right, a School, or any public building may allow speficic "discriminitory groups" Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Fellowsip of Christan Athletes, a Wiccan gathering, any group who wishes to use the building may use the building as long as they follow the prescribed manner to reserve and use the room. If the public building does not allow private groups to meet there, thats ok too as long as there is no exemptions

"Can't we all get along?" Here here, truer words were never spoken, and better yet, refraining from critiquing another Scouters posts as "bitter contempt and ridicule dripped on anything with which he doesn't personally agree" would go a long way to getting along n'cest pas?

So, if a group signs a contract that is doesnt understand, and commits itself to things did not realize it did, the best defense it can give others is to never sign a contract again. Would it not be prudent to know what you are signing and what it commits you to before you sign it? Indeed, the BSA would be better served to explain what a charter organization is responsible for and what their duties are.

The fact the Leadership Program has plans to alter its methods is not a bad thing is it? Many posters think EDGE is, well plain speaking STUPID and thats not an mneumonic. So, lets see how this program is, I look foward to seeing torn asunder in the future. Wonder if in a few years we will get a post decrying whatever method is beig used and saying we need to get back to the traditional way of teaching scouting skills, you know, EDGE to which many will opine how great the old days were when EDGE was reigning

Lets see if paraphrasing will work Who hath seen the LED at twilight? Who hath heard the LED in a bucket of water Shining ? Who is quick to read the noises of the night? Let him follow with the others, for the Young Men's feet are turning Too the camps of proved desire and known delight! it may be better to eliminate campfires compelety than to substitute a weak replacement When we couldn't burn leaves in Autumn, it was sad, but I got over it even though it left the world a bit less romantic and ethereal(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

And that is exactly what "they" would like you to think

I do not urinate in ponds, rivers, lakes or oceans and I expect all the fish, whales, ducks, gulls, moose, deer and geese to follow my lead

BTW, how did scouts teach skills for years?

If you were against the French, would that be anti-franco? And if you are Anti-franco, what has what position you take on the Spainish Civil war to do with the French anyway? Anyway, from the World of Scouting Web page http://scout.org/en/content/search?SearchText=fleur+de+lis Scout Emblem After his second stay in India, Baden Powell created a fleur-de-lys badge for his Scout Group. Just as in maritime maps this symbolises North, the Scouts of the world make it the symbol which identifies them. So, its a Fleur dis lis AND a compass, we are all winners, whats better than that? Scout Emblem BTW this just in from Chevy Chase: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead

We currently have an open and active thread by the username singlemom about her sons first campout which did not go as well as expected. We have plenty of people telling her that not all BSA is as her son experienced but her experience is hers and she will look at it from her perspective. The Wood Badge experience is the same. It's personal and it can only be viewed by each individual in their own unique perspective. If a person has a bad Wood Badge experience, it doesn't mean Wood Badge is bad or the entire process is flawed any more that having a bad first campout experience means the BSA is bad or the entire program is flawed. Mileage varies