OldGreyEagle

the worst part of Internet Forums is going back to explain yourself when you thought you hit it out of the park The training program Kudu provides the link to is the way Scoutmasters should train his PLC I looked at the first meeting and commented when I saw explanations, demonstrations, guidance and enabling. The Program is excellent, make no mistake about that. And its excellent and it has plenty of explanations, demonstrations, guidance and enabling (Enable, a word that got a bad rep nearly as fast as gay) I'm not sure how you teach a physical skill, psychomotor skill if you will if you don't explain, demonstrate guide and enable. To me the whole point of the entire program is to demonstrate to the Patrol Leaders being trained how to run meetings, teach skills, plan and do a hike and then a camp out. The heart of the matter is presenting the Patol Method by having the scouts live it. Is that not a Demonstration? Requiring EDGE will not kill the BSA, having units or councils who keep chartering organizations in the dark about their rights and responsbilites will kill the BSA. Council volunteers who allow the professionals to usurp the volunteer roles and oversight will kill the BSA. Adults who want to impose their will on the youth of the unit with regard to the will of the youth will kill the BSA, it wont be because of a training acronym, which Ed has commented on is the way its always been done and I guess I proved it

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow." Kay Typically the worst reactions occur when the Change monster comes about. Most people don't mind change when it doesnt effect them, but effect them and they panic. Because if you change how they have lived, or done their job that must mean they have been doing it wrong all this time and if they have been doing things wrong, well then, they just aren't as good as they think they are and if they arent as good as they think they are then somebody has to be wrong and its the people responsible for the change

lets not confuse the Law of the Land with BSA rules. You can call the police to warn of a drunk driver, sleeping arrangements are different and I wouldnt be checking marriage licesnses

You presented a scenario and I presented my opinion. I didn't realise the Scout Law was geographically dependent(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

Yes Kudu, I have read the material, and I guess that is what perplexes me the most, the whole program is based on Explaning, Demonstrating Guiding and Enabling the Patrol Leaders to lead their patrol. This is my take on it, look at my comments as Obi-Wan-Kenobee's different point of view: First Training Meeting THEME: Patrol Spirit and Patrol Organization Program: (a) Simple Opening Ceremony: Recitation of the Second Point of the Scout Law in full. Reading by Senior Patrol Leader of "A Patrol Leader's Creed" (Since this is the first meeting, there are some that may say that this is a DEMONSTRATION of the elements of Opening Ceremony) (b) Purpose of Training and Establishing Patrol: Tell briefly what you expect to accomplish, based the Introduction to Green Bar Patrol Training. Declare the Patrol officially formed with you as its Patrol Leader, the Senior Patrol Leader as Assistant Patrol Leader, Assistant Scoutmasters and Junior Assistants as special instructors, judges in contest, leaders of games and handicraft activities, and the boy leaders as the members of the Patrol. (Telling the boys what you expect to accomplish sound an awful lot like an EXPLANATION of the program to me) © Make Notebooks: Fold letter-head sized sheets in half, or use a cheap composition book for each member in member in which he can take notes. Insist that a sufficient amount of notes be taken by all boy leaders. (Insisting the Boy take a sufficient amount of notes? I thought the concept of Scouting as school is to be eschewed, where is the Adventure in having your scoutmaster insist you take notes? ) (d) Discussion of Patrol Name: The why and how of selecting a name that will have a definite significance to the Patrol. Talk over various names. Make a preliminary selection of a few, then put them to popular vote. Decide upon the Patrol Cry and Call to fit the name. (Sounds like an EXPLANATION of why and how a patrol name has significance. Having the youth vote on the Patrol Name looks like an DEMONSTRATION of how a patrol makes decisions, the adult leader GUIDED and then ENABLED the Patrol name selection) (e) Call and Yell Contest: Have each pair of buddies get up a rousing Patrol call and develop a short yell, incorporating the Patrol name. Vote for best yell. (See above, GUIDING and ENABLING the patrol to adopt a yell) (f) Patrol Flag Contest: Using the same buddies, have teams prepare a rough sketch of a flag for the Patrol. The idea counts more than artistic execution. Hold short Art Gallery session, and vote for best design to be made into permanent flag. (See Above) (g) Instruction Games: such as Signal Winks, Buddy Knotting, Buddy Slings, Scout Law Acting. Use buddy teams throughout. Winners give Patrol Call. (See Above) (h) Election of Members: to fill the jobs of Patrol Treasurer, Scribe, Quartermaster, Hikemaster, Grubmaster, Cheermaster. In case of a large group, turn a single job over to a buddy team to handle. Rotate these jobs monthly to give each boy a chance. (Hey, every boy gets a chance? I thought you picked the natural leader and you were done with it, this rotating jobs sounds gosh darn awfully modern) (i) Work Session: With the "job-holders" chosen, get them busy right away. Have a short session to get them started on their responsibilities-the Treasurer developing a budget, the Scribe filling in pages of the Patrol Record Book; the Hikemaster working out a route to a camp site; the Grubmaster making up a Patrol menu; the Cheermaster producing a list of songs popular with the Patrol members. (I have to Channel my main man, Maynard G Krebs, WORK? Where is the Adventure in Budgeting, filling out tables? Figuring out a route to camp? Making up a Menu? Compiling Songs?) (j) Handicraft Project: Have each boy draw from a hat the name of a Tenderfoot knot and provide him with the necessary pieces of rope to produce the knot for a knot-board. Main project is to whip rope ends, and the finished knots to be turned over to volunteering buddy team for mounting. (At last, a scoutcraft skill. Woo hoo) (k) Recreational Games: Two or three, such as Bean Race, Hot Air, Laughing Handkerchief, or Artist's Menagerie. If time is short, run game only until the Scouts have caught on to the rules, then shift to another. The object should always be to give the boy leaders a variety of program material for their Patrol meetings, rather than to play each game to its completion. (You let the boys play to catch onto the rules and not to completion? Sounds like a dirty trick a teacher in a school would pull, unless of course the whole intention is to DEMONSTRATE how to present the game (l) Simple Closing Ceremony: Singing of Taps (See Also: Taps in Indian Sign Language). (Sounds like a DEMONSTRATION of how to do a closing ceremony) After Meeting: Before dismissing the Training Patrol, give a short summary of the ground covered. Tell the leaders to make use of the material in their next Patrol meetings, and ask each Patrol Leader to make a short talk on how the material worked out at next training meeting. Follow this procedure after all future training meetings. (Sounds like the scoutmaster EXPLAINS the material covered,(the stuff DEMONSTRATED) then the Patrol Leaders are GUIDED to use the material at their next patrol meetings, which is when they would be ENABLED to use it) (This is Lesson one, there are 7 total activities, each one is an explanation of what/how to do something mixed with demonstrations and the boys being guided through skills and activities and encouraged to use these skills. The whole training program is set up for the Scoutmaster to DEMONSTRATE to the patrol leaders how to run their patrol, he GUIDES them through learning the skills required while giving he EXPLAINS the reasons for doing so with the result being the patrol ENABLED to do a Campout on their own (OK, current BSA regulations say they need adults, but we both agree the adults would be at least 300 feet away)) From a certain point of view, this trainig program (an excellent it is) is based on EDGE and do you know what? Because its a excellent training program and EDGE can be used in excellent training program But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong

Sorry if I come off being a wet blanket, but here goes. If I was sorta really positively certain a parent was impaired (drugs, alcohol, whatever) I would not follow them to their home. I really don't want to witness them running up the curb and killing the old lady out walking the dog or hitting a kid playing some street football and then I get to think about what I SHOULD have done so a life was not lost. If you know the person should not be driving, then do something. Perhaps driving them both home would be helpful

How should the Patrol Leader [physically in the lead] impart the scoutcraft skills that he has that his patrol does not[be ahead]? As a friend,[friend] how does he accomplish the skills transfer from himself to his patrol?

If its a safety conern then notify the proper authorities, if you are thinking that the situation is not "like that" then don't do anything. I would not appreciate anyone, no matter how well intentioned, telling me how to raise my children I do not trust people who know better than I how to conduct my own life

The one who wants to teach his patrol the skills necessary to do a patrol overnight with adults 300 feet away?

And here I thought EDs Guide to Elucidation was the answer I guess any method that tells the youth what the purpose of the skill is and then showing them how to do the skill and watching them do it for awhile before you send them off to do the skill would be good, no matter what you call it

Sometimes I wonder if the opposition to EDGE is merely the all American reaction of "Don't Tell me what to do, nobody tells me what to do" we see it in uniforming and now here

The definitive Bear Patrol Yell Oh, Bother...

Is there anyone who knows if/where Boy Scout Youth Protection can be done on line by a Hearing Impaired person?

Well, there is precedent the James E West knot is a knot that is "bought" although the money raised for the West Knot is for the Council, this knot is for raising money for National Although, I had thought in a pyramid scheme everybody is suppsoed to get money, like Amway or I sell you a money order for 10 dollars for 20 dollars and then you send it to the name on the list and then get two other money orders for 10 dollars and put your name on the list and then you sell each of the money orders for 20 dollars ...

I think the latest results from the Census was that children live an ave of 22 years with their parents, as your scout moves into the boy scout program, you are beginning to mark down to under 50% the amount of time you will have your son. Why take a break? You dont have to be a scoutmaster, assistant scoutmaster may be the break you are looking for, not in charge but not absent either. Its hard for us to tell you how Boy Scouts is run when every Troop has its own personality. In some troops perhaps a timid boy would not do well, in another he could flourish. Visit troops, ask people, you are a cubmaster, ask recent crossover families about the experiences their sons have had. Its not the end, its a contimuation of the journey

These are pictures from John's Eagle Project, he collected sweatshirts and seatpants to be send to Russian Orphanages http://www.troop362.com/pictures/?dir=.%2F2010_pictures%2F100819_jl_eagle_proj%2F This is last year at Summer Camp, John gets around pretty good http://www.troop362.com/pictures/2010_pictures/100718_summer_camp/44-IMG_2541.jpg

I gotta say, that if the BSA is abandoning its outdoor program, I have a hard time explaining the acquisition of the new Jamboree site. It's not in any way shape or form in a developed area at all. If BSA was making itself over from High Adventure to more Mediocre Adventure, then the selection of the area around Glen Jean West Virginia makes no sense at all. In 2010 BSA rolled out the National Outdoor Badges: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx Looks like someone spent a lot of time developing an awards program centered on the Outdoors and Adventure, strange behavior indeed for an organization that is sometimes represented as running screaming from the Outdoors. Am I satisfied with the BSA's approach to High Adventure and the Outdoors, no sir I am not. It distresses me to no end that no adults patrol outings were killed and I told our Council Exec how much I did not like it. He promised to get back to me on why they were eliminated and its been awhile and I have to remind him of his promise. I did buttonhole him during the Council's University of Scuting so I didnt expect much but its time to remind him but boy did I digress. Perhaps BSA is just trying the best it can to be relevant to toays youth and saw the STEM-NOVA award as part of that. What was it that Dr Richard Reed said in the movie Fantastic Four: RIse of the SIlver Surfer General Hager: [to Reed] Let me make this clear for you and your pack of freaks. I'm the quarterback, you're on my team. But I guess you didn't play football in high school, did you, Richards? [Hager starts to walk away] Reed Richards: You're right. I didn't. I stayed in and studied like a good little nerd. And fifteen years later, I'm one of the greatest minds of the 21st century. I'm engaged to the hottest girl on the planet. (Jessica Alba!) And the big jock who played football in high school, he standing right in front of me asking me for my help, and I say he's not going to get a damn thing, unless he does exactly what I say and starts treating me and my friends with some respect. General Hager: [understandingly] Give him what he wants. [Hagar walks away] Susan Storm: [to Reed] I'm so hot for you right now. Johnny Storm: [hugging Reed and switching powers] Me, too! To paraphase the Sermon on the Mount: Blessed be the nerds, for they make our life easier (see computers, Ipods, Smart Phones, Microwaves) (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

So , these two Scotsmen walk out of a pub...

Heck, I would have thought you would have went with ED's Guidance and Education (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I have talked about this young man before, he wrote the book "the Boy from Babyhouse 10", there will be a story on him during the Suday (April 10, 2011) production of Dateline. Obviously no one has seen the segment yet so I have no idea what is in it, but the boy is a scout in the Troop I serve, and I don't think I have been prouder to say that phrase "Troop I serve" than now. Preview/Trailer may be seen at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/vp/42478228#42478228

Ed, can you describe the methods of training BSA had in years past. Bevah gave a nice description of how to train, it might be good to print and laminate his post as a referece. Can you descibe the instructional methods BSA has used in the past

I beleive you answered your question already and quite well, ask the boy(s) whose Eagle Court it is, if he/they are fine then do it. If you get any sense of reticence at all, dont do it, its the youth's choice

http://scout-wire.org/2011/03/21/north-star-award-designed-to-honor-non-scouters%e2%80%99-contributions/ wonder what they knot will look like?

TMI Alert TMI Alert TMI Alert TMI Alert TMI Alert

I got a survey as well and I am glad. The BSA is trying to take a step away from the perception that Irving is the ivy covererd utopia of scouting sending out dictates without rhyme or reason I am happy, Of course this could be a ploy to lull us into thinking our opinion counts, but I shall choose to be positive minded and happy I signed up to fill out future surveys as well, I see this as good