OldGreyEagle

Actually in our troop the feeling is if we keep the kids out of the house saturday night to sunday about noon, the mothers end up getting a lot more sleep than with kids. Its a public service to have a mothers day campout...

just in case some think I dont have a sense of humor, the phrase " Children of Homosexuals" cracks me up. I beleive that should replace Military Intelligence as the definitive oxymoron. BTW Eisely, my scout store has those "America is returning to the values scouting never left" bumperstickers in stock. Did you ever get one? And more importantly, were you the one who wanted one?

Thank You Eiseley. Actually you jogged a bolt loose, in 2003 one of the other Venturer LEaders wants to take the crew to climb Mt Hood in Washington. Thats one of the erasons why 2002 has to be on the chaeper side, any body climb Mt Hood? How is it? The leader says its no problem, but he is a real rock climber and certified outdoorsman

It is exactly this type of self-righteous, I am right and you are wrong attitude that drove the original settlers of this country away from intolerant tyrants. Seek HIS face? Have you seen HIM? is HE singlar? Is HE an Entity in our definition of the word? How many times do you think you insult and demean non-christains with these words you speak? In yor mind you "know" you are right, why cannot the non-christian also beleive they are right? Does it matter if both live up to the tenents of their beleif system? We have a Hindu Scout in our troop who is a vegetarian because his religion forbids eating meat, is he wrong? Should I tell his parents their religious beleifs are wrong? I have always had a hard time differentiating the terms "Friendly, Courteous, Kind" (there is quite a bit of overlap in these words) in the scout law, would it be treason to suggest one of those tems be dropped in favor of adding a new scout law, that a scout is "tolerant" Scouts pledge themselves to be reverent, I do not see any indication to which faith or beleif system is valued any higher than any other. I am always bemused by anyone who thinks they have THE answer for EVERYONE else

SO if Christians give glory to the one and true God, what do Baha'i, Hindu, and Buddist people do?

I think as long as a boy lets you know what he is doing, there is no problem with him pursuing other interests at various times during the year. Of course, if the boy is a patrol leader or assitant senior patrol leader, or in another role of leadership he needs to be in attendance, but once those duties are discharged, I see no reason why other interests are not possible. In our area fall equals band and our troop loses half its membership on friday nights and saturday afternoons. Personally I hate the way band intrudes on the kids lives, but it does. We would lose many good kids if we said band or scouts. Boys Life magazine is constantly doing stories on scouts who are national champions in skate boarding, surfing, etc. I am sure those scouts dont make every meeting, but are still considered an asset to the troop. I dont know if this commercial is still running, but I seem to remember a TV spot for Boy Scouts where a list of celebrities are shown along with Eagle Scout or former Boy Scout. I seem to remember that Henry Aaron is shown as a "former scout". I sure hope no well meaning scoutmaster ran Hammerin' Hank out of scouts before he could earn Eagle because he missed some activities due to baseball.

I have no knowledge of any non-christian religion that tolerates or does not not tolerate homosexuality. I was responding to the comment that people who read the bible will be safe on "judgment day". I guess I got off track from the Gay theme of this posting, but I get irritated when I get christianity shoved at me like there are no alternatives. Many fine moral, religious people live out exempolary lives and have never read the bible. What happened in West Hollywood, if reports be true, was a disgusting and perverted spectacle, but I still insist it would be wrong to say all gays are like the perpetrators of these actions

So, Mr cjmiam, while you and your Christian friends read your bible and wait for judgement day, just what do I and my fellow Baha'i scout do who earned the "Unity of Mankind" emblem?, or the Buddhist scout who earned the "Sangha" emblem, or the Hindu Scout who earned the "Dharma" emblem, or the Islamic Scout who earned the "In the Name of God" emblem, or the Jewish scout who earned the "Ner Tamid" emblem, or the Meher Baba Scout who earned the "Compassionate Father" emblem, or the Zoroastrian scout earning that religion's emblem, that of the "Good Life". See, the point is, just as you think you and your friends are right to read the bible, all these buddies of mine have little idea of what the bible is, but are as religious. Perhaps you have never known any Gay friends, or had friends who were Gay but knew better than to tell you. I have been around the Gay Community for many years and have known some real "screamers" (the in your face, act as outrageous as possible type) and truly neurotic "closet cases" (gays who wont tell a soul and try to pass as normal) And from this breadth of lifestyle, you are going to take one incident, from one town and as I said before "paint everyone with the same brushb? I love Boy Scouts, I love everything they teach and the way they stand up for what they beleive. Boy Scouts do beleive in diversity as the veritable wealth of religous emblems attest. But just as ill behaving Islamics should not reflect upon the entire culture, it is a mistake to beleive all Gays are just as a few are.

Actually, when I wrote my response I was not referencing the Boy Scout movement at all, the Lunatic fringe I was talking about were the out of control Gays who ran the parade. And as far as your comments about what happens to the renounced Preachers you are right, at least they did get renounced. I just wouldnt want the entire population of gay americans painted with a single brush from West Hollywood. And as far as the Lunatic Fringe in Boy Scouts, I am not sure I could identify any, so maybe I overstated that

I do not belive the antics of the fringe element of the Gay Pride movement represent the attitudes and behaviors of all gays any more than the antics and behavior of ultra-consevative, right-wing bible thumping TV Evangelists who get caught in their own sex and monetary scandals represent religion in our country Every movement has its lunatic fringe, somethimes the fringe gains control, but it always remains the fringe, and a lunatic one at that

I am with you, keep Boy Scous and their ranks in the Troop and leave Venturing for ALL crew members, then there is no problem. Speaking of GSA, yes, thats why we started a Crew, the Girls who were in Girl Scouts sponsored by the same church that sponosrs our Troop saw what our activities and wanted in, the Crew was a logical next step and has been very rewarding. Instead of BSA trying to start another new program they wont be able to handle, how about BSA AND GSA form an alliance, (NOT MERGER)and utlilize common resources. BSA might be able to help bolster the GSA program without creating its own new division and GSA might have some ideas that BSA could use... or is this too far fetched?

Well, at least I know I am not crazy. Well, at least this dosent prove it... I checked online and yes indeed A male venturer can earm boy scout ranks and merit badges but a girl cannot. And while yes the girls can earn Girl Scout awards, my issue is the same acheivement done in the same place deserves the same recognition. I am not aware of Venturing Crew taking on a Girl Scout award's requirements as an activity but I guess it could happen. What really got this rolling was a discussion I had with Crew members. One of out male members just turned 18, so he went to register to vote and register for selective service. He wanted to know why the girls didnt have to as well. It lead to a discussion of the rights and responsibilities of a citizen. The one singular emphasis was both boys and girls wanted to be equal. In the end, the girls accepted that they should be registering for Selective Sevice (not necessarily combat, we will leave that for another day)since that would approach equality. And how do I explain in this group the Boys can and the girls cant?

This is one time when I want to be wrong, that I heard wrong or the Presenter was confused, but yes, as I understood it, the boys can make Eagle and the girls get to be cheerleaders on the sidelines, and if this is like old "explorers", they were wrong too.

I just got Venturing training, and was told that MALE venturing crew members can earn merit badges and Eagle but the girls can't. Now, I am not even gonna suggest the ladies should earn Eagle or merit badges, but does anyone think this should be allowed? A male and female crew member both do the same things and one can get recognition in form of a merit badge and the other cant? I thought the purpose of Venturing was to present a Co-Ed program with common goals. Why mess it up with male only awards? Let the crew strive towards Ranger, Silver and Gold. Let Boy Scouts in Boy Scout troops earn merit badges. All of our male crew membes are Boy Scouts and I hope they all make eagle, but as boy scouts, not venturers... and should this be in the political forum? Did I get this right? I am anxious to see what the opinions are

Well, actually the early plans call for a waterfall and a pond with hot air balloons containing the BSA, GSA, and Venturing Logo's and clouds forming the scout law and girl scout promise in an ethereal fashion. Do you think BSA and GSA would get upset? I sure hope not but you just never know. Thank you Eisley, the use of copyrighted charactors is a good point and we will be sure to steer clear of them. I can challenge our artistic team to be original and not "copy" anybody or anything already out there

Oh, and I hope it was implied, but after I read my results I am not sure, so THANK YOU Mr Long for the time and energy you put in your response. Its Scouters sharing knowledge that makes it BSA the premier youth program going

Thank you Mr Long, The intent was always to have the crew conceive and develop the design, its getting it on the wall I wanted information on and I am not sure I will need more info than I just have recieved form you. I will however check out the web pages you referenced. Yeah, it was a great project and the kids had a lot of fun and were proud of the results. Sometimes being a scouter is the best feeling in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD...

Whether its the practicality of wool pants or whats going on in Scouting, I know I can always depend on the regulars in here. The Venturing Crew I am in just did a service project, we built some playground equipment at a shelter for abused children/wives. The area has a large distinctly dirty cement wall, and we are throwing around idea's on how best to paint it. A suggestion was made for a mural. But is there any place that has plans for a large outdoor mural? A kit to buy with the plans, etc? ALl I can find are places that will paint murals but not any exterior do it yourself kits. Can anybody help?

Actually Eisley, you are right, Scouts old enough for an Eagle project know all about Bars and alchohol and drugs as well and most of the younger scouts too. And while I understand and observe the BSA prohibition on alchohol, I remember when I was a scout, the leaders having a can of beer after dinner. Sometimes I wonder if it wouldnt be a good idea to present a positive role model, to show you can drink A beer and stop, you can drink to enjoy and not get stupid.

As a dedicated On-Line ScoutSurfer, one of my most favorite WebSites has been MacScouter, next to this one of course! But I haven't been able to find it for over a week. Does anybody know where it is or what happened?

Thank you Mike, Actually I am from the Chicago area, That may have come out during my ramblings on other topics, like Merlyn-LeRoys efforts. I do live around Allentown Pa right now. Thank you for the Smokies stuff, It will help

One good game is the toxic swamp. Tell them they have to cross a swamp of toxic ooze using three buckets and two planks. They all get on one plank supported by two upside down buckets and have to pass the free bucket and plank while they balance. Interesting to watch and see how they figure out a system. Gie them a course that makes them pass the plank at least 3 times Another is to have at least two teams compete in a strecher race. They have to make the stretcher and transport a team member from poitn a to b. make it interesting by stopping the race at intervals and have them switch the "patient" so everybody rides Be sure to pick the teams yourself. Kids will gravitate to their own friends, make them work with kids other than the ones they usually group to. Keep score on a per scout basis and make the reward like not cooking or cleaning up during the camp out. Change teams frequently, but make the kids want to win for the the personnel rewards.

Actually I am in the Allentown, PA area. Although I do appreciate the information. The Smokies sound like a good direction to go

Thank you Mr Eisley, I appreciate it

The Venture Crew I am involved with is in the midst of planning a trip for 2002. I would like to know if anyone has a website or other source for getting ideas, ideally it would be in the eastern third of the US, but doesnt have to be. When we started our Venture Crew I was unaware that High Adventure meant high cost and Extreme Activities carry an Extreme price tag, can anybody help?