OldGreyEagle

It was my understanding that the Venture Program is supposed to be a youth led organization and the crew members are to find their own resources. TO provide them with a list is contrary to the intent of the program As I understand it

The only problem with camping in camo would be if a scout does injure himself, his cammo may delay his being found

One thing that should be considered in this thread that hasnt been mentioned is the culture of Utah. This scout most likley is LDS. The LDS church uses the Boy Scout program as its youth group. If the troop that this scout is in is organized anything like most scout troops in Utah, he earned his badges. As far as qualified merit badge counselors are concerned, again the culture of the LDS church would mean the most qualified men of the community were availible to him. Perhaps as was suggested he is a prodigy, perhaps he should be doing college work and is the one in a million true 12 year old Eagle Scout. Since he was a Cub Scout and most likely earned the Arrow of Light, he could have joined the Scouts when he was 10. This would have given him enough time to reach Eagle at 12 and put in the required time. I still would like to know if he had fun and has enriched his troop through his efforts, the program is supposed to be about more than collecting badges, earned or otherwise. He comment at the end of the article troubles he, he says he is "through", does this mean he views earning all the merit badges as a task he set upon, a goal he wanted to achieve or did he do it for the love of scouting? I hope its the latter!(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I am really having a hard time composing this response, because I do want to communicate my idea without offending anyone and I am not sure that is possible. le Voyageur uses as his final argument that he spent a lot of time in combat veterans forums and they all think a strict code of displaying the flag should be followed. This is the hard part, should a combat veteran's opinion have more weight that the opinion of a non-veteran? If I was never given an opportunity to fight for my country must I defer to some one who did? I have to say I fully thank and appreciate the members of the armed forces who forged our way of life and are today risking life and limb to defend it.However, I am not in favor of taking the American Flag off the uniform just because a group of veterans say so. As a scout in the late 60's around Chicago wearing our uniforms was tantamount to being bait for a beating. And having an American Flag on your car was like posting a sign that said "Break Windows Please". Now I see American flags every where I go. While traveling in the deep south I see the Stars and Bars displayed next to the Stars and Stripes. A year ago all I would see would be the Stars and Bars. If the American Flag is to be the symbol of freedom amd democracy and the emblem of the greatest country on earth, then its use cant have many restrictions. That being said, I cringe when I see little flags on toothpicks in cupcakes because I know they are headed to the trash. I have seen proud bright flags posted on cars after Sept 11 fade and ripped and thrown away and that bothers me to no end. My point is however, the more flags I see, the better I feel. Having the flag around reminds us we are Americans first and white, black, hispanic, or (insert ethinic heritage/minority affiliation here) second. I would like to see all American Flags treated with dignity and respect, But I will accept a few tattered flags and lapses in Flag protocol if it means their message of unity and strength is understood. Take the flag off the uniform???? Are you kidding??? we should make it larger. Our scouts know they are not to let the flag touch the ground, they can be taught to respect the flag on the uniform as well. Again, I do not denigrate any veteran's contributions, but I dont beleive they should have more say in flag protocal than any other citizen

It is my understanding that the Eagle Project is intended to make the Scouts community better and scout related projects do not qualify. The idea of the Service Project is to have the scout conceive, develop and do a project that betters his community. Working in a situation that has predeternmined parameters, such as job descriptions doesnt qualify unless the scout writes the job description. I see the intent of the service project is to have the scout take an idea and make it happen and experience all the work that it involves.

does it say anywhere that he had fun doing it or that the other scouts in his troop are richer for his leadership?

I guess that depends on how you define perversion and what is truth... Oops, I think this falls into the category of been there, done that and didnt get anywhere

Sounds like we agree the money is usually well spent, we just would like to see where it all goes. Actually its nice to think the money is generally well used. I can tell you on a business trip to Dallas a few years back, I just HAD to visit naitonal headquarters. Its right outside the DFW airport. It was a little hard to find, stuck in the middle of an office park and was a very non-descript building. It has a statue of a boy scout outside but other than that it was just a normal building. I went in and was stopped at the reception desk. Very little ornamentation. I understand the scouting museum is moving there, which I think is proper. I left with the impression national headquarters is servicable, but in no way can be construed as ostentatious.

What I would like is an average run down of costs to get started. My son and I both have packs, tents and sleeping bags as well as stoves, but were all acquired a bit at a time. For a new scout starting out, how much should we tell the parents to be prepared to spend?

While contemplating this thread, I was thinking about this, Our Council has 5 disctricts, each has an Executive, as well as the Council Executive. Add another 3 fulltime jobs for secretaries and then the two full time Rangers for each of our camps, with benefits and competitive salaries, thats a lot. Multiply that over all the Councils throughout the country and it adds up fast. Throw in updating Camps to include larger facilties and maybe even flush toilets and warm water showers, the costs must be staggering. That being said, I would like to see my council's balance sheet with my FOS pitch.

Well, while sitting in the Salt Lake City Airport, I did see a comercial about scouting on the airport TV system and while in South Carolina I did see a few bill boards extolling Boy Scouts. Our Council has two camps, that are fairly well equipped, not spectacular but pretty good. I dont know if this answers you quesitons. Does anybody know if councils are required to publish their books?

Good question , its a troop competition. When I have supervised, its been my recipe but the boys all prepare vebetables and the meat and we cover the cooking requirements about safety, ecomonics et al while the chili simmers

Not yet, Late summer is all I know, will let you know

Hey Ed, I am in Bethlehem PA and some of our guys did the Yockagani (sp?) last year and want to do it again this summer. Want to meet up somewhere?

In the Venture program a member is a youth until they are 21. So, we have assistant scoutmasters who are adults in the troop, but on Venture Outings they become youths.... Now this forum had a thread about how to break the connection between the 18 year old and the scouts, imagine scouts who are also crew members, in the troop its Mr Smith, but in the Ventures he is just good ol' Bob. At least we are consistent in our inconsistentcy(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Our Venture crew, which is co ed would love to sponsor a stop of your mascot. COntact me at Llordbadenpowell@aol.com

I looked on the Gung-Ho Patrol as a soluton to a problem. Some scouts, whether older or younger just dont care about doing their best during competitions. These scouts really irritate the scouts who want to do their best. I see nothing wrong with separating the competitive from the non-competitive. All Scouts attending the camporee/klondike were required to compete, but this way the non-competitive kids were with kids as relaxed as they were and the scouts who wanted to excell werent held back. The best solution is to motivate the non-competitive ones do do their best I agree, but when you have over 70 in a troop, its not going to work 100%

and of course, if its' a boy, he will be named Baden Powell, and if a girl, Juliet Gordon, right? CONGRATS in either case

I can identify with my son's frustration of being "gung-ho" about a Klondike derby only to be derailed by a few apathetic or inexperienced scouts in his patrol. But there is a solution. When I was a scout, we had the same problem. The Older, more gung-ho guys didnt like getting held back by non-competitive scouts, so our Scoutmaster had an answer. The troop developed a "gung-ho" patrol. This patrol was for competition and membership required a primary scouting skill. Knots, Cooking, Fire Building, Map/Compass/Orientering, Plant identification, ETC. Before any competition, interested scouts would try out for the gung-ho patrol in one of the skill areas. The best were placed on the patrol. Normally the older scouts were on the patrol, but every once in a awhile a younger scout who really wanted it, could break into the patrol by being better than the older guys. Since we all wanted to win, the younger scout was welcomed. It was the 70's and the only members of the troop who could wear the red beret were the gung ho's, this became a coveted privilege. If you want to have a competition patrol, have one, but be sure all troop members who want to join have a chance, pick the best applicants and have fun. Then there was the one time where the guys who didnt make the gung-ho patrol placed second, ahead of the gung-ho's.... Lots of red berets ate crow that night I can tell you (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I have heard Lee Greenwood's "Proud to be an American" many times. At this years national Jamboree it was the finale being played full volume during a spectacular ground shaking fireworks display. As I looked across the field I saw thousands of scouts and scouters singing and enjoying the show. I sang along, it was easy, fun and light. After Sept 11th, I again heard the song, this time singing along was a lot harder (tough to sing with tears in your eyes) and the words had greater poignancy than ever before.

Sitting here watching the ESPN sunday night football game in New Orleans and the camera showed some guys wearing fleur de lis foam cut outs patterned after the American Flag. Does anyone knw where I could get a few?

If you have even the remotest interest in being a professional scouter, and you are willing to put up with multiple relocations by all means investigate it hard and long. We needs dedicated scouters who know the program inside and out and are in it for the boys. In the words of the Cajun charactor in the movie Waterboy "YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Dad, I am not sure I will explain this well, so forgive my inadequacies. I had no intention of bringing homosexuality into the discussion. Only that what some people consider being PC may be termed "common sense" by others. In my understanding the term "Politically Correct" was SUPPOSED to mean being sensitive to anothers belief. Somewhere along the line, the term became identified with the absurd and inane desire to eliminate all "differences" For example, According to Eisely, in the San Francisco area PETA has succeeded in having what I would term a pet owner referrred to as a pet "guardian" ( I hope I got that right Eisley) To my father treating an animal (notably a deer in season) ethically is a clean shot through the heart. Two widely divergent ideas but based on a view of what is true to each. I hope I explained that better than before

In the Rock Opera Jesus Christ Superstar, there is a scene where Jesus stands in front of Pontius Pilate. Pontius and Jesus discuss the situation. I dont have the libretto handy or I could give you the exact exchange. It ends with Pontius asking Jesus if he is who the Pharises say he is, Jesus responds by saying it is the truth. Then comes a line I often think of, Pontious says, "what is truth?, is truth unbending laws?, we both have truths, are mine the same as yours? This forum is where we get to discuss our truths and sometimes find out that "my" truths are not the same as everyone elses, but if they were, then we would be in the "Utopia????" Sctmom talked about and I doubt thats what we want, And Sctmom, get with the program!!!! its not baseBALL it must be bases and bats, at least until PETA gets ahold of it. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)