OldGreyEagle

Rooster You made me laugh out loud and for that I thank you....

The Cremation of Sam McGee will be perfect for Klondike. Thank you Eisley et al. Great Suggesitons and I will look into all of them

Rooster, I am not saying lets not debate those issues, or any issue. I am saying we debate in a scout like manner. Derisions on style of argument and sarcastic comments do not further the process of idea exchange. Perhaps some of our posters are blessed with a much higher intellect than most of us, but using that intellect to bully another is not infomation/idea exchnge, it is a waste of God given talent

Having a uniform is not a "joining" requirement because BSA does not want to preclude less prosperous families from joining BSA. The cost of the uniform often comes up along with comments like I cant afford that. Usually right after that I see multi-buck designer sneakers on the kids feet or they wear designer jeans/khakis, and the local NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL jersey of choice. But to include all boys, I can see why BSA doesnt make you have a uniform to join. However once in the troop, the boy should strive to obtain a uniform.

Recently at a winter camp out, I recited the "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot. The kids loved it. It was a sharp departure from the normal campfire fare. I think another poem that would do well would be Stephen Vincent Benet's "Ballad of William Sycamore". Does anyone have any other favorite poems or songs that do well as verse that would work for a campfire?

Interesting situation... You know my position on ADD kids, they need extra help at times and patience. Given that, you certainly cant be expected to have your troop revolve around one child. The time is now for the family to decide what they want for their scout. If the Dad doesnt think his kid will get enough attention, then he might want to attend a few events. The growth and development of the troop, especially to the benefit of the other scouts should not be compromised. You may want to do a sit down with the family and point out your concerns as the troop grows, less attention may be paid to their son. See what develops. I am all for giving the kid every benefit you can, but at some time, his behavior must change.

Lately it seems like a few posters on this forum have forgotten a scout is friendly, courteous and kind amoung many other attributes and I have to include myself. Perhaps it is because recent topics have touched on topics we are most passionate about. I dont know for sure, but could we try to stick to the topic at hand and not make comments concerning personality, intellect and other perceived charactor flaws of fellow posters? If you beleive someone, (like me) is wrong, say so and state your case. What is of little use is to add that I am a fat-headed idiot and will be/am the cause for the downfall of Western Civilization. To all I have knowing or unknowingly insulted in the past, I apologize. On my honor as a scout I will not denigrate a persons beliefs anymore. I may say I beleive them wrong and offer my reasoning, but I wont attack them because they believe something I dont.

Ok, let me try this again. Sometimes people (scouts included) will point to some person or organization embroiled in scandal and say they have lost all respect for that person or organization and all that they stood for. I say that as long as humans run things, organizations will have human flaws. The failings of humans should not distract from the fundamental message. Instead of Christianity I could have used the US Government. Since it is run by humans, it has its share of flaws and scandals. However, just because scandals occur in the Government, it does not mean the concepts of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are flawed. Just because election fraud and "irregularities" exist does not mean democracy is flawed, it just means humans run it. That is all I meant

A big scouting thank you to Rooster and Merlyn for getting this thread back on track

Rooster, I may not have made my intention clear. As a human organization, Christianity has not always been the Model I think Jesus wanted. That is all I meant. I dont disparge any thing about the faith at all.

If the scouts are over 14 and the adults under 30, unless unique circumstances occur, you wont have many parents along. Not allowing parents on a trip is hardly BSA policy. Besides, I am ever so much more than 30 and wouldnt let my son go along on such a neat trip if I couldnt come. Now, as a compromise, keep the same trip plan, allow adults over 30 to come, but set prerequisites for the adults as well as the scouts. Perhaps all adults would have to "earn" the swimming, lifesaving, camping and canoeing merit badge or some such thing. Rather than use age to prevent adults from comming along, let them know what is expected and see who measures up. At this point I believe I can swim, hike, canoe and camp with the best adults in my troop (which may not be saying much for my troop). I dont like seeing limits placed because of age, limit by experience and training and I think you will be better off. But thats just my opinion Speaking out of both sides of my mouth I would support the age limit of 14 for the scouts, I didnt say I was consistent, I just wanna go too and would prove myself an asset if need be(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I think Anglicans and Episcopalians are the same thing. They are parts of what started as the Church of England. The Church of England of course got started when Henry VIII (Catholic) couldnt get a divorce so he declared himself head of the "Catholic" church in England, gave himself a divorce and started as good a reason for separation of Church and state as you will ever find. Thus started the Anglican chruch (Anglican from Anglo as in Anglo-Saxon) The reason Lutherans have similiar cermonies as Catholics is because Martin Luther started off as a Catholic monk. he didnt like the direction the church was going. During the medieval times the church, and there was only one christian church in Europe, that with the Pope as the leader was full of corruption. Bishops were selling priesthoods, Cardinals were selling Bishop positions and the image of the portly (read fat) church offical was born. They were eating plenty while the peasants starved. There is a story one Pope had it arranged so after he died his son would succeed him. Martin Luther pointed out this corruption and said it wasnt right. His superiors tried to squelch him, but is didnt work. Luther left the corruption and started his "own" church. This more or less sparked the reformation where numerous "Protestant" sects were formed. Did you ever wonder why Christian Faiths that are not Catholic are called Prostestant? Because their founders were protesting the church in Rome. Some of the new faiths kept with the Catholic ways because it was familair to them, others broke away completely and adopted new styles of worship. Faced with the reformation the Leaders of the Catholic church "cleaned up their act" and returned to what it was supposed to be, and is today. In another thread I said any any organizaiton with humans in it will demonstrate human characteristics. The Catholic Church is the organization I reference when I say this. Faced with the mass defections it suffered and so corrupt from within, it would have been logical for the Catholic church to fall apart or to be weakened beyond recognition. BUT, the fact it stayed together and today is one of the worlds largest religions proves to me it has divine backing.

I always say I am Roman Catholic because in the area where I live a person may be Roman Catholic, Polish Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, Latin Rite Catholic or Marionite Rite Catholic. Peter IS the first Pope. When Jesus told Peter, whose previous name was Simon, that his name would be Peter and "on that Rock I will build my church" Jesus made him the first leader of the church on earth. Jesus made all the aposles priests at the last supper when he told them to celebrate the Passover meal "in remembrance of me". Finally, on during the Ascension, he told the Aposrles to go forth and teach all nations, whatever they bound on earth would be bound in heaven and whatever was loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven. These are the foundation of the Catholic Church. I hadnt heard that ROman Catholic was derogatory, but that may be the case. I remember in the 60's my father the convert being called a papist.

Can somebody tell me why in Northern Ireland the Protestants hate the Catholics and the Catholics hate the Protestants? Do you remember the accounts of during WW I, during the Christmas "Ceasefire" the English troops sang "Oh Christmas Tree" while the strains of "O Tannabaum" wafted over the front lines? I am a Roman Catholic, as I have stated before, and I beleive in Jesus Christ as my Savior. But based on past "recent" history, I would have a hard time defending Christianity as the model blueprint for all religions to follow. If a Jimmy Baker isnt bilking well meaning people out of millions, then its a Swaggart dealing with prostitutes or priests having sex with boys (or girls). Any Organization with humans in it will display human characteristics. They may be noble, sincere, and helpful and they may also be base and cruel and sometimes at the same time. How an organization deals with inevitable scandal tells us about the charactor of the organization. Christianity, IMHO (woo hoo) has a pretty good track record, but I wouldnt call it flawless. If Wicca seems to be the way to go to some one and they embrace it whole heartedly, I would be amazed and wonder why I couldnt convince them Christianity is the right path. But I also would respect their right to make that choice.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Well, define cheap..... Anyway, you can try indoor climbing, this has the benefit of already trained people so you dont have to teach the boys, let the profssionals. The cost generally isnt too high and the kids will "buzz" over it for weeks. You can take a "night hike" prefferably over a known trail. Our Venture Crew has hiked to an Overlook on the AT, watched the sun set while cooking and eating dinner and waited for the moon to rise before comming back. if the Boys arent up for that, just walking in the "dark" in the middle of the night is exciting. If the moon is out and the trail clear, have them put out their flashlights and see how much they can see. It can be a real eye opener to realize how much light there is at night. If its winter where you are, your troop might have a winter cabins event. Have the Venture patrol sleep in tents rather than the cabin. They can see the "little" guys sleep in the cabin while the "real" campers sleep outside. Hint: Be sure the tents are up before dark and keep their sleeping bags in the cabin until they are ready to turn in. Plan an elaborate camp dinner that the boys cook and serve to the troop at your next campout. With salad, soup, entree, dessert. Have them make bread (bisquick) and a dutch oven treat later that night. They may have to "practice" this a few times before doing it for the troop and now you have a few Venture only outings. Then when they cook for the troop, the younger scouts will be impressed. Do any of the Dads work in a place that would be cool to tour, but you wouldnt take 11-12 year olds in? Try that as well

Could put them in a Coed Venture crew...

Never thought of the catholic in the creeds as with a lower case c. Interesting thought

Ok, here is another one, frequently on this forum during discussions of religion, Wicca is referenced by people. I think I know, but what is Wicca exactly? What do they beleive in? I know prison inmates frequently "convert" to Wicca to pick up special treatment, or so I have heard. I am not talking about them. Many inmates convert to Chriatianity as well. But what does a good, honest Wiccan beleive anyway?

Just a thought, one that struck me, I thought the Apostle's and Nicene creed were authored by the Roman Catholic church to spell out their beliefs. Why would another faith use the basis of another's religion. Are all the christians who go by these creeds Roman Catholic? If your gonna beleive the creed, why not join that faith?

Well, see, all we have to do is ask a quesiton and we get an answer. I hadnt heard of that explanation before, but thats the beeauty of this forum, scouters exchanging information while always remaining helpful, friendly, courteous and kind

it went well, sorry you missed it, Will try again tonight 9 pm EST, it works, Mikelong and its trail day was there

Wow, Leave it to this group, here we are talking about An Atheist and the Boy Scouts and a theology discussion breaks out... So I am sure I understand the term, in the roman catholic faith confession means owning up to our sins to the priest. I am not sure where in the Apostle's or Nicene creed it referneces sorrow for personal behavior rather than statements of beliefs. Does confession mean soemthing else in different faiths?

I'll hang in there for awhile, 1.5 to 2 hours

What christian faith doesnt beleive in the Trinity?

Its WORKS, see you all thursday night at 9 eastern