OldGreyEagle

Tripod to hold cooking pot Tripod to hold "dribble can" for hand washing Two spars lashed crosswise to two trees, one in front of the trees, one behind it. Dig a trench along parralel to the spars and you have a medium duty latrine Use two square lashings to make what would look like a horse "hitch rail" but hang strings with large hooks on them for a cup rack

I was thinking about the ACLU on my way to the Scout Committe meeting last night and you have to admit, sometimes they have a sense of style and stand by the their mission. I am sure Merlyn will either affirm or correct what I have to say, but if it is true. its too good not to share, if its wrong, then oh well, its makes a great urban legend. Back in the mid to late 70's, the American Nazi party wanted to have a parade/march in Skokie, Illinois. Skokie is a rather upscale community Northwest of Chicago, it is also a vey heavily Jewish community. I remember as a child riding on the public transportation system called the Skokie Swift and looking the old men and women riding, many with crudely tattooed numbers on their arms or legs. So, the Nazi's wanted to march in Skokie, and they were refused a parade permit. Naturally the Nazi's sued based on the constitutional right of freedom of assembly. The ACLU got involved of course and the Nazi's eventually got their permit. ALmost as soon as the permit was granted, the leader of the Nazi party resigned, seems the lawyer the ACLU assigned to the case was Jewish, and the Nazi leader said he could not stand being helped by "one such as him". Later I lived in Bloomington Illinois which is immediately adjacent to Normal Illinois which is home to Illinois State University as well as the birthplace of George Lincoln Rockwell. The house where Mr Rockwell was born no longer exists, an empty lot is there. Every year on Rockwell's birthday, the Nazi's would show up in Brown shirt uniforms or SS black and hold a rally on the sidewalk. And yes, the ACLU would be there backing up their Civil Rights. I remember thinking about those old people in their shorts, and the tattoos and thinking how repugnant defending Nazi's in full uniform had to be to the ACLU personnel, but they were there because its the ACLU's mission to defend everybody's constitutional rights whether they agree with the groups philosophy or not. Do I always agree with the ACLU? NO! I wish they would be more vocal in the Second Amendment fight, but perhaps no one has asked them to be, but I sure am glad they exist, because if they will fight to ensure NAMBLA constitutional rights, I am secure in having mine.

I took this away from the cooking merit badge as I didnt want to disrupt it any more. Melrose? in Chicago? what block? Where do you live? about?

Hey NJCubScouter, just where in New Jersey are you? Are you from Jersey? I am NOT from jersey

I may be old and grey and dont always remember things as I should, but wasnt Oliver North the guy who LIED to congress about Iran-Contra ? And later he admitted he LIED to Congress based on his belief he was right? Didnt he shred documents that were subpoenoed and snuck others out the door in Fawn Hall's boots and other articles of clothing? If I am wrong, I have no doubt I will be suitably rebuked, and will deserve it for spreading more urban legends but I am not sure Oliver North is a guy I want to have anyone model, much less a scout

Its off the subject, but mom, a greasy spoon??? Such things harken me back to my days around chicago with a loaded hot dog and chips. Cant find them in the sterile suburban area I live, you made me homesick

Mom. as hard as this may be to beleive, my ears "perked up" when I read about your sons "bathroom problems". My son had a huge problem with incontinence. If you wish, Email me and perhaps I can help you with some resources or at least we can share a few stories. Now, my Email is a bit tricky, but I am sure you will know its me.... Llordbadenpowell@aol.com

Mom, try to have him make as many campouts as he can early on. In out troop the kids who seem to lose interest and drop out are the ones who dont attend events and then get discourged when they see others shooting past them in getting requirements done. I dont mean shun everything else, a well-balanced life was the ideal of the Greeks dignity of man concept but he is going to sunmmer camp right? I cant stress enough how much good that will do him

Geez Mom, dont say that so loud or "they" might find out they are learning and ruin all their fun!!!!

I could be a native American Or a Vigil member of the Order of the Arrow, or I could just be Old and Grey and an Eagle Actually I have nothing to add other that I thought the Hammurabi code was the basis of laws rahter then the 10 commandments. And I just like Rocky and Bullwinkle as you must as well, just searching for middle ground(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Sorry Chippewa, didnt mean to get off track, no more comments from me on THAT topic. I would encourage you do something scouty, whether its climbing, a special hike or camp out for the new guys. I think if you make it too far from scouts you may give the wrong impression about your program and what the kids can expect. Rememeber, first impressions are the most long lasting

Welcome back Merl, My favorite Rocky and Bullwinkle was when Bullwinkle would put on a hat and be the smartest man in the world. It was called the Kerwood Derby and it made him president of WHATTSAMATTA U. Then there was the Story of the lost bath tub toy made from precious gems, I believe that was the ruby yacht of omar kayam. Merl, your a scream!!! (and since when did you care about scouting issues?)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Try this Dad, its the best one I found http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/medieval/hammenu.htm

I will have to let our lawyer friends answer this, but didnt the Hammurabi Code form the basis for suing people for damages?

My question about financing was because I wouldnt think if it was state funded it would be constitutional. I wouldnt want a monument espousing the tenets of the Koran paid for with my tax dollars and I am not sure a Muslim would want to pay for the Ten Commandments with theirs. But if privately funded I see no problem. As an aside, living in Eastern Pennsylvania as I do, the troop has been to the Gettysburg battlefield quite a few times. Many of the monuments there dedicated to the men and various units who fought there make multiple references to God and the almighty. Since these are on National Park Land, does these mean they are in violation of separation of church and state? ( I sure hope not) The monuments were paid for by private organizaitons, so they should stand and so should a privately funded 10 commandments memorial.

I am not sure how important this is, but was the monument to be publicly or privately financed?

Thank you Brad, and I guess thats what our troop gets for having a well trained Scoutmaster... He knows the rules and follows them, I guess thats why he is the scoutmaster...

Welcome Scoutruud, Where are you from? I would guess Europe from your posting, but which country exactly? Or not from Europe possibly. Do you have a co-ed program or boys only? I would ask that you remember the views expressed on these forums may or may not represent the views of all scouters. Whether you are from Europe of America, you should know that of all the rights Americans hold most dear, one is the right to have an opinion and be able to express it. This forum is an expression of that right. If you check my postings you will see that while I do not always approve of the manner of some postings, each person has a right to express themselves however they wish. I may not agree with the context of what they post, but still they have the right to post their opinion. In America thats what freedom means. And if I come off too preachy I am sorry, I do welcome you and just want you to know that this forum is a mix of Americans and others, dedicated to Scouting who dont always agree with each other.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

The term boy led can mean different things to different people. To some, it means the boys are supposed to do all the planning, implementing, the whole enchilada. To others it means the boys are handed a program and are expected to make it happen. The problem in our troop is one of scope. You ask the scouts what they want to do and the inevitable answer is to climb Mt Everest or hike acrsos Australia. Its either that or a sea of blank stares and shrugging shoulders. The scouts need to expand their references and see whats possible and not get locked in duplicating last years calender, but if they have never done anything else, would they know its possible? John, you have one heck of a program by what I have read. I know you are out west, how do you combat the pressures of band, school theatre, sports and jobs? You have to have a well trained core to sustain this, how do you do it??? Enquiring minds want to know!!!! And Mom, if your scoutmaster has that much power or control over the troop, it may be time to look for another fiefdom, because this one doesnt seem to friendly(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

You know, I thought my request was rather clear, a single one word answer, I can see NJCubscouter's comment because I carelessly said troop, when indeed I meant unit. Slontwovvy felt compelled to add his is a conservative area, which is OK. But who could have predicted that TJ and DedDad couldnt respect a simple request from a fellow scouter. TJ, you cant answer a simple quesition without an editorial comment? Dad, your accusation couldnt have been fit in the 8 pages your discussion has covered? Many comments refer to the fact many more people read these comments than actually post, so now many more people know some scouters cant honor a simple request or answer a simple one word question. I for one am impressed at both the style and comittment it takes to compose your replies, but to tell you the truth if either of you told me it was raining, I think I would still look out the window(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Yeah Mom, thats the ticket, you have fun, he has fun, and the both of you learn, what could be better than that? (especially if he doesnt realize he is LEARNING)

Well Mom, I know what you mean. I have been on field trips with my son's school and I cringe. My son and I were making a list of all the scout violations we saw, and he had more than I did. Scouting is so much safer than other outings I have seen I cant beleive it. Maybe as a teacher you get used to being responsible for kids and get complacent, I can never forget I am responsible for the scouts safety and welfare

Mom Mom Mom Mom Mom, As you said you are not worried about how many badges he earns or how fast he advances, and as he is not yet 11 years old, this is what I would do, work with him on his advancement requirements to first class. Review the Oath and Law and what it means to him. Talk about safe hiking practice and how to safely build a fire. Learn to ID plants and animals and signs. Teach him how to use a compass and orient a contour map. Go over the knots until he can do them blind folded and/or behind his back. He has plenty of time to work on merit badges. Perhaps basketry or leather work for now, but he will get far more from the merit badge program when he is older, even 12. If the troop is doing a badge, by all means he should do it, but leave working on individual badges alone until he is older. I admit I come from a generation where you couldnt earn merit badges until you were first class where as now you can earn them before you are tenderfoot. I may still have some of the old prejudices about merit badges, but work on scout skills and wait for merit badges till he will appreciate them. But then, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong...

One of the things our Crew leadership struggles with is training, whether it being a "certified climbing instructor", or a "certified marksman" or whatever, it would be nice to find the resources to get ourselves "CERTIFIED" trained in the fields that interest the crew. and I almost forgot, a real wilderness first aid exhibit and place to get training woud be great(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Thanks Brad, Sounds awful, I havent seen any evidence in my son's school but I will know what to look for. I guess our area is pretty conservative as well