OldGreyEagle

hey, I resemble that comment!

Well, for number one, first I would find the SPL and ask who the patrol leader of the patrol with the offending gear. Then, I would have the SPL and the patrol leader look at the gear to see if they think all is as it should be, when they decide it isnt correct (without many hints from you I hope) they consult the duty roster to determine who was on clean-up. Now for the tricky part, obviously the stuff has to be cleaned, but I would also look at who was assigned clean-up detail. If its a new scout or a team of new scouts, I would ask the patrol leader if after seeing the results, if he thinks putting just younger kids on clean-up is a good idea, and what would be better. Stay with it until he comes up with the idea that at least one "experienced" on hand would be a good idea at all times. Then, I would let the SPL and patrol leader come to the conlcusion that perhaps all the scouts should pitch in until the gear was clean. Number 2 runs pretty much the same way as number 1, inform the SPL, have him find the PL, and have the boys talk about respect for troop or personal, or some one elses gear. And have it done right. Although perhaps as another thread we could go into the relative merits of neatly folding a tent versus stuffing it in the bag, both have proponents. Number 3 The patrol doesnt eat until all its members say grace together. Peer pressure usually does far more than any amount of wheedling an adult can do. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Gee Dad, I am honored you expected more from me, but I find it odd you hold other people to a much higher standard of decorum when debating than you hold yourself. Now, Bob said "So let me get this straight, you feel a scout with an extra hole in his ear lobe has severe character flaws, but an adult who wanders off into the woods with someone elses child is "to be given permission to make mistakes"." What is/was your answer to this? And lets not add the heart attack, cholera outbreak or any other catastrophic event, answer the question as posed. Oh, and BTW, I have come to understand your abusive style and use of hyperbole are just your natural style and I wouldnt want to inhibit your First Amendment rights else you may have to call on the ACLU to defend you (LIKE THAT WOULD HAPPEN!!!) PS. boy wearing bra and panties and purple hair and fingernails (just wanted to say it first THIS time)

IMHO, (used it 4 times now) this is how I see the latest "match" between Dad and Bob Bob shoots, Dad deflects, but doesnt answer the question... Adults get permission to make mistakes but the hole in the ear thing is a character flaw? Lucy (thats you Dad) you have some splainin to do !

Our troop started off rather small, our CC rememebrs the days when the troop had 5-8 scouts in it. Today we are bumping up against 90. The key was once an event was planned, it was done, even if it was one scout with 2 adults, or even a scout and his father if the father was a registered scouter. They took lots of photos to show the other boys what they did on the trip. It was the consistentcy of the schedule that brought boys on the trips, they knew it would happen. And they scheduled a campout a month and some other activity, a hike or something. Once word spread they were an active troop which didnt cancel for anything, (well a lightning storm once but that was safety related, scouts started showing up and they got new cross-overs from Cub packs and transfers from troops that werent very active. The Active troop generated intereest in active scouts who had active parents who joined as leaders and today we have 41 adults on charter, 23 of which are trained. Have the boys draw up a schedule of activites, keeping in mind band, sports, etc dates, but dont not schedule something unless you know no body will be availible. Even if you have one scout, its something. Take lots of phots to share the trip withthose who coulnt make it. Let them see what they missed, perhaps they will want to be on the next one and miss anything. Once you build the momentum, you will then have the happy task of slowing it down.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Congrats, and I hope you dont mind if I use that as an Eagle project idea as well.

Oh Mom See, I was gonna do this whole thing on the scout law, but then I got busy and by the time I got back, it was already there. But thats ok, I can be flexible . I draw a distinction between values and mores. Values, such as the scout law, are timeless. A man being trustworthy and loyal were as important in the Roman army as they are today. Being Courteous and Kind were as important on the American Frontier as they are today. These characteristics, these values are timeless. Mores on the other hand are defined as: mores Pronunciation: 'mor-"Az, 'mOr- also -(")Ez Function: noun plural Etymology: Latin, plural of mor-, mos custom Date: circa 1899 1 : the fixed morally binding customs of a particular group 2 : moral attitudes 3 : HABITS, MANNERS The fixed morally bindning customs of a particular group is the crux of the matter. How big a group are we talking about? If you want to be taken serious in American politics today, you would generally be advised to dress in a dark blue or grey suit with a white shirt and "power" tie or scarf. Thats the custom, its what we expect of that group. Of course, if the crown prince of Saudi Arabia speaks at an Ameican event, he wears the garb of his native land and conforms to his society's mores. If you want to be taken serious in corporate business one would generaly advise a newcomer to not have an earring, but if the business happens to involve martitime trading, it may not be a bad idea to have a gold hoop earring and a story of when you "earned" it. Much has been made of earrings, body piercings, tattoes and the like, yet some cultures all over the world regard these as marks of beauty and of maturity. These people also regard being trustworthy and loyal, courteous and kind, Cheerful and brave as attributes they honor. So, if we look to the Scout Law as an example of values, I am so there. For they represent ideals that were honored in Ancient Greece and Rome and are honored today and will be honored in the future.

OK OK OK I submit, I ask questions a lot better than I answer them. Well Mom, you certainly have a wealth of information to use. Actually explaining Wood Badge would be a nice break as well,most scouts dont know much about it history and traditions and what it means.

Now that the work day is over on the East Coast and I have more time for research, here are my answers, for the origin of Wood Badge Beads I sued this: http://www.usscouts.org/macscouter/woodbadge/wb-beads-legend.html for the rest of the Wood Badge stuff I only have what I was told by a Wood Badge candidate, if I am wrong, I apologize, but hey mom, you sure got a boatload of quesitons, dont you?

Ok, so I scored an 80 on my own test, just kinda shows you how hard those questions are. I thought Boyce was from Peoria and settled in Chicago and then ended up in Ottawa. However since I ant prove it right now, I bow to your SUPERIOR (LOL) knowledge (Hee hee hee) And Ok, number ten was wrong, I did that on purpose to see if anyone would catch it (did anybody buy that?, meet my wife, Morgan Fairchild)

Oh? You wanted answers too? You asked for just questions... ::slaps self:: wow, I am getting to literal... my answers 1. Who was Boyce? Boyce was the American business man the Unknown (more on him later) scout helped find an address in London. He brought back the idea of scouting to the US 2. Where was Boyce from? Peoria Ill 3. Where did Baden-Powell receive the most acclaim for his military actions? Mafeking, in Africa during the Boer War 4. Who turned out to be the unknown Boy scout that helped Boyce? With a nod to NJ, who knows? Thats why he is the unknown boy scout (ok a trick question) 5. What significance do the beads on a Wood badge toggle have? Baden-Powell took a necklace off a dead chief after a battle. Later when he "specially" trained scout leaders he gave them a pair of beads from this necklace 6. What is the name of the plaid worn on a Wood Badgers neckerchief and why is it called that? The name of the plaid is the "Black Watch", its the plaid of the Royal Army and was naturally worn by B-P 7. What happened at Gilwell Park and Brownsea Island? Gilwell Park is where the first advanced training of scouters took place and they received a pair of wooden beads (see above) Bronsea Island was the first Boy Scout camp and where B-P put togther the Scouting Program 8. Who refused Baden-Powells marriage proposal saying she was too much of an independent American woman? Juliet Gordon Lowe of Savannah, she also happens to be the founder of the Girls Scouts Of America (give bonus point for knowing that extra tidbit) 9. What organization did Baden-Powells sister start The Girl Guides, seems B-P had a problem with Co-Ed units 10. The Boy scout symbol has a star on the side by side points, what do they represent The Oath and law BTW, if there are errors in here, let me know, after all this is what I feel is right

1. Who was Boyce? 2. Where was Boyce from? 3. Where did Baden-Powell receive the most acclaim for his military actions? 4. Who turned out to be the unknown Boy scout that helped Boyce? 5. What significance do the beads on a Wood badge toggle have? 6. What is the name of the plaid worn on a Wood Badgers neckerchief and why is it called that? 7. What happened at Gilwell Park and Brownsea Island? 8. Who refused Baden-Powells marriage proposal saying she was too much of an independent American woman? 9. What organization did Baden-Powells sister start 10. The Boy scout symbol has a star on the side by side points, what do they represent

Perhaps Dad, normally I eschew obfuscation, but I meant it the best possible way and with all sincerity.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Dad, Dad, Dad, Dad, For a rhetorictician as skilled as you, you do seem to have have difficulty comprehending simple requests. The subject is what do YOU (the reader of the post)consider Traditional Values.

Sorry, I didnt run my wifes attributes through any logical process. Perhaps I could have found a more beautiful woman, or one who had far more money, or one who could provide me with power. I married my wife because how she made me feel and I have no defense for that. When we moved in our neighborhood we looked at several houses all the same relative location (close to schools, shoping, parks) and we picked the one we liked best, turns out we both liked the same one because it reminded us of the houeses we grew up in, not logical, not raitonal, we just "feel' like this is home. If acting on feeling is a bad thing, then ok, I am bad. At the last presidential election, I couldnt make up my mind about the candidates (NB candidates, not party) I picked the one the one I felt best about, no logic, no rationale, just feelings, sorry its just something I do (BTW, I think I felt right about my selctions

The term traditional/family values gets tossed around quite a bit these days in this forum and in society as a whole, my question is, what do you consider Traditional Values?

Dad, I often have feelings I cant defend, I am attracted to my wife and I love her. Many other beautiful women exist in the world. and why I love this one, I cant defend, I only know I do, without any rational explanation, its all about how she makes me "feel". On a much much much much less important note, I just bought a car, I had a few different models in mind and I selected the one I "felt" best about. All the models had similar repair records, had the same attributes and price. If you asked me why I picked A over C, I couldnt tell you, I just picked the one I felt "best" about. And if you want to get into the color my wife and I picked out, well, thats a long story based on nothing but emotion and feelings and I guess we didnt use much logic there either. One of the best qualities about humans IMHO (thats three times now) is they are able to feel things and are not slaves to rational and logical thought, and I would rather be a human than a Vulcan.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I for one beleive Bob White's view of scouting is much closer to the intent than Dad's. It's only a feeling and a belief, I cant defend it with rhetoric and involved arguments. To All Forum Members, do you like Dad's views of Scouting better than Bob's or Bob's better than Dad's?

The troop can schedule activities, even campouts with the pack in question. Show the Cubs what scouts can do. Are any of your scouts Den Chiefs? That way the Cubs see how much a Boy scout knows and they see a role model. Have the Troop share its schedule with the Cubs and have the Boy Scouts talk about the latest event, Klondike, a fall camporee, camping under the stars, a great campfire program. DO you have any scouts that also plays sports and have him tell the cubs that scouting and the sport co-exisit, That both can be done In short, have your Boy Scouts share with the Cub Scouts how much fun it is to continue scouting

We have done the counseling thing at least formal times at boards of review (star and life) and one impromtu one and the scoutmaster has had several "moments" with him. He always seems to understand what we are talking about and says he understands, but as soon as he is with the scouts and a situation arises, he grabs the top spot. How do we use the patrol method to solve this?

Since this is a parish rule and the reason for the rule was in the past and now is not working, could you go to the parish council and ask the subject be revisited? Has another pastor come on board since the rules inception? If not, do you know the current pastor well enough now to present the information posted here to him? If not, is there someone else in the troop who could? Seems your hamstrung by a rule made for a completely different time/era and situation than you presently find yourself in, time to change the rule. or is that possible? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

How about this: We have an Ex-Senior Patrol Leader that is currently a patrol leader. He term of office expired over a year ago. His style of leadership was always "big boss" and while we were able to modify it, he never bought into shared leadership at all. (his father is a fire dept lieutenant, that may explain a bit) He still tries to run the troop as if he was the SPL. At a recent PLC training weekend (we used the JLT tape and syllabus) he always took control of almost any situation. The current SPL just shrunk back in the shadows. The Ex-SPL attended the week long JLTC the council puts on prior to being SPL as has the present SPL. How can we use the Patrol Method to get the ex-SPL to "simmer" down while not shutting him down and to encourage the present SPL to "step up?"

We have discussed in several threads the concept of a paper Eagle. The scout is only 12 or 13 and members of the forum question the maturity the scout possess or whether the merit badges were done up to standards, how they were able to handle a service project et al. The problem with paper Eagles never lies with the scout, it lies in the adults who allowed the papers to get printed. It's not just one person, we cant blame the scoutmaster, or the Counselor for Environmental Science, or any one person. A whole lot of people have to agree for any boy, even one who is 17 years and 364 days old to attain the rank of Eagle. I am on record saying a 12 year old Eagle designates a genius, then again, there is genius in the world so I have to accept it can happen. Rather than focus on how to slow down a scouts trail to Eagle, why not concentrate on assuring each adult along the way is fully aware of their responsibilities to the Scouting Program ? If all the requirements for Eagle are met, the Boy is an Eagle regardless of his age. If a boy receives an Eagle he didnt "earn" its not his fault, its a failure of the system. The palm system was devised to recognize a scouts contribution to his troop after he "makes" Eagle, it is not designed to give the boy another award for every 5 merit badges he earns past 21. The 5 merit badges are a requirement, but so is Scout Spirit, participation in the troop, showing leadership, have a scoutmaster conference and board of review.

We will have 24 new scouts this year, so we will have 3 new patrols. Each patrol will have 2 troop "guides" assigned to them. Each patrol after 4 meetings elects a patrol leader who will attend all PLC meetings, so they can see whats going on and how the troop functions. The term of office is 1 month so each scouts gets a chance. Once elected the scout cant be relected until everyone gets a turn. The troop guides stay with the patrol for 18 months or so, February of bridging to the second september, then they are folded into an existing patrol. A new PL every month.

Holy Cow Batman, somebody better check Satan's plumbing, I think I finally came across a posting of Roosters and Dad's that I agree with !!!!!!!!!