OldGreyEagle

It may be picking nits, but since when does that stop me? Do Your Best is the Cub Scout Motto (Not that there's anything wrong with that)but it's not the Boy Scout Motto, Slogan or anything else as far as I can tell. In Boy Scouts the idea is that you meet the requirements, you don't do your best to tie a bowline or a timber hitch, you tie a bowline and a timber hitch (and the rest of the knots) and then use those skills during the rest of your scouting career. You don't do your best to orient a map and take compass readings, you actually do it and continue to use those skills. Perhaps the requirements are "dumbed down" for whatever reason but a scout still needs to know knots, First Aid and Orienteering skills and if they don't, its not the Programs fault, its the adults at the unit level. Now, from what we hear, its the unit level scouters who are falling down on the job, Creating an epidemic of Eagle Mill Troops, Merit Badge Mill Day, etc. What can be done to straighten things out?

I disagree with Fred that good healthy troops play laser tag

Then again, at Camp Minsi in Pocono Summitt, PA the First Year program (Trail to Adventure) tells the scouts that they will be taught quite a bit of the skills needed for T-1rst class but that the Troops will decide how to test and who signs their books, the Camp Staff does not. IOLS is taught by the Training COmmissioner and the full sylabus was presented with only the adults in attendance

Hey, I just found this on YouTube and wanted to share it. If I was technologically savy, I would have posted a link. But that ship has sailed. Go to You tube and search for Summit Bechtel Reserve: Getting Fit for the Jamboree with Tico Perez I think Tico Perez has lost like half his body weight since I first saw pictures of him. I was hard on him in 2009 and I have to say I am as impressed now as I was peeved then Or go to the Scouter Dot Com Facebook page, my good friend Pierre has a link there. Good thing one of use is somewhat computer savvy(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

Indeed, Scout Spirit is all about living the Oath and Law in your eveyday life and a picture on facebook or other social media does indeed qualify as "everyday life". A standard question when doing Eagle Boards of Review is "Do you have a Facebook Page" and followed by "If I looked at it, would I know you are a scout?" Have gotten many strange looks, the best was the first time I asked the question, except that is was "MySpace" not Facebook. Poor child almost passed out, he couldnt beleive the old farts knew about MySpace If you are aware of improper, illegal activity do you not have an obligation to bring it to the scout and parents long before a Board of Review or Scoutmaster Conference? "Yeah, its too bad Johhny was drunk when he killed that old couple, I was gonna vote no next time he came up for the Board of Review based on the picures and comments on Facebook, guess that's a moot point now..."

I may have been too obscure in previous posts on this matter, so this time I shall be blunt, (Ihope) Its not the BSA's program fault that an Eagle can't light a fire, cook a meal or know lashings. It is the result of unit adults not doing their job If scouts get Scoutcraft merit badges without knowing the skills, then its not the program or the requirements fault. Its the human being(s) who either sign off on the merit badges and administer the program who are to blame and the adult leaders of the unit who accept shoddy program The requirements on paper never award a boy anything. Its the adults in the program who accept half-hearted attempts as completion of a requirement. It was suggested that the requirements should be burned as very few are folowing them. So, how so we assure new requirments will be followed? How are Eagle Mills allowed to exist? Are they the brain child of the youth or the results of adults willing to game the system? How do substandard Eagle Projects get approved? By the conniving scout or apatheic adult? How do Merit Badge Mill camps thrive? Because the kids show up there or because the adults allow the situation to continue? There was a time when there was a great hue and cry that the adults were not the reason the program has issues. And I understand that the youth must do their part, but so do we as leaders must do our part. If youth do not perform adequately in Position of Responsibility, they don't get credit for the time. If that means they get fired, then they get "fired". Anf yes, you do get to remove scouts from POR's if they are not doing the job. A drastic step and not one that should be commonly done, but leaving a an under performing scout in a POR does no one any good A skill is not signed off until they know it, and then they use that skill through out the rest of their time in the program. Being an adult means making hard decisions, even if it means a scout doesnt get a rank he wants when he wants. If quality amoung scouts, Eagles, merit badges is down, lets not blame the requirements, lets not blame the program, its time we looked at who is supposed to do quality control We Have Met the Enemy and He Is Us

The BSA recognizes that different age boys will have differing interests. Thats why they suggest having three levels of skill instruction during a Troop meeting. The Levels are New Scout Patrol Regular Patrol Venrure Patrol This is an add-on to BadenP's suggestion about running multiple "mini-troops", have three similar programs but at varying levels of challenges to meet the scouts abilities. On Campouts the New Scout patrol is closest to the adults and the Venture Patrol the farthest out. Make it clear as scouts show skill and ability and the ability to use them, they start to move out and be on their own PS, don't think you have to do this on your own, or even with the other adults. Let the scouts do it, they will have a blast and since its their program, they will embrace it. WHo know, there may come a time when the New Scouts are closest to the adults (by 300 feet) everything is relative

I would not be concerned about your standards for Eagle, but I would be interested in your Districts standards for Eagle. Its not the Troop that decides if an Eagle project is worthy, its the Distrct through the Advancement Committe who decides that

Not saying there isn't merit in what you say Mr Boyce, but the scouts I go to camp with are there to enjoy the program and have fun and perhaps earn merit badges while making life long memories. Its not to function as fodder so a young lad can develop personal responsibilty through learning by experience with youth who paid to be there. Camp emplyment can teach a lot, I just don't want it to be at the camper's expense

Interesting perspective Kudu, I was thinking more in the lines of having adult leaders who actually did not sign off a skill until the scout exhibited it and then made sure the Troop's program gave the scout ample opportunity to use that skill so that by the time they earned Eagle, making a fire or lashing a camp gadget was second nature. "fixing" Wood Badge and NYLT will not improve an Eagle's skill at making a fire or lashing. Having adults who adhere to the published scouting requirements will.

Lets see, we either don't have enough adults to present an exciting program or we have too many adults to present an exciting program. How do we determine what that magic number of adults are? Oh I got it. Its different for every unit based on composition. That and having the adults understand the program. Just because you have 23 youth and 12 adults in camp (our total for the week) does not mean the adults spent the week chasing youth. Many adults took advantage of the training programs that were offered. Others assisted in various program areas and all followed the program (the BSA one) It can happen

"How many new Eagle scouts cannot build a fire or lash a useful camp item? Just sayin" How can Irving change this trend? Could BSA change this trend if they wanted?

does anyone remember the story that ends with the phrase, "prepare three letter"?

With attention spans the size of a flea, is it no wonder the BSA publications are getting shorter? One could be happy that at least the Patrol Leader Handbook has not been converted to a Graphic Novel format. BSA is matching its publications with the wants of the consumer. Not saying that its right, but what youth looks at a 600+ page Victorian novel and wants to dig right in, to say Middlemarch by George Elliot (PS he is a she) We have heard all sorts of reasons why Scout Leaders don't have time for training and we want an Opus of over 1,100 pages for the scoutmaster to peruse?

The longer I live, the more I realize how much I miss National Lampoon. I loved PolitenessMan

Another thing "newbies" should know that although most of us profess to be scouters, not being scoutlike can occur

Just back from Camp Minsi, was it good? Well, we had 2 in Council Troops and 12 out of Council troops attend, the leaders I talked to said the facilities were good, the staff excellent and the food passable (you don't go to summercamp for the cuisine) I want to thank the Staff, especially Camp Director Lisa, Program Director Mike, Commissioner Ryan and Dining Hall Steward Bubba for the best week of Camp in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD!

I've been away at Summer Camp so I mised a lot of this. I admit I havent read every post, so if this is reiteration, I apologize, but I have found that some troops labeled Eagle Mills are because they produce a lot of Eagle because they have a widely varied program that challenges the boys with adults who are eage to help, but not do for the boys. Often a sucessful troop can be seen as an Eagle Mills because of results, the process must be known as well

OK, let me see if I have this right We need adult leaders who are outdoors savy enough to implement and support a high adventure program that brings excitement to the youth I can do that These adult leaders need to be trained in the BSA for the position they hold as well as Wilderness First Aid, and CPR I can do that These individuals need the resources to have equipment that allow them to support the program the PLC comes up with Not as well as I would like and These adults have to have the skills to work with good boys, the ones who do what they are told as well as the ones who don't think any rule applies to them. Starting to question my abilities here and we wonder why good leaders are hard to find

I wonder if we can blame the lack of Outdoor Skills on the boondoggle of the 70's or not. I am not saying that the changes in the 70's were not awful, but consider; in your state, are hunting license applications up or down? How much experience do the new parents have with Camping? When I was a youth the dads all had camping experience. It was called WWII. Then vacations were done mostly by Camping. Now? Its Hotels/Motels. We have commercials on where little kids expound on the evils of dirt, and germs. Dirt and germs are actually good for us. Keeps our immune system strong. Of course there are the exceptions! Our society is moving away from the outdoors, free play of kids is almost non-existent and the pool of adults who know how to camp at any level is shrinking. So, what do we do? BSA has to scrap its present training curriculum. It needs a couple different levels, from the novice never camped to the expert outdoorsman. BSA partners with other groups, we need to partner with some outdoor training groups who can provide actual camping experts I agree seek adventure, the way we are doing it now encourages mediocre adventure as opposed to high adventure

first off, welcome to the forums eaglemetals and on a willdy obtuse tangent, are you an ee cummings fan?

my favorie is repacked cous cous with a flavor pack and either a tin foil envelope of salmon, chicken or tuna. Boil a cup of water, add it to the mix, cover and wait one minute. Has protein, carbs and its hot and a belly full

what I a going to say are to be taken as guidelines, I sit on the advancement committee and approve Eagle projects and am asked all the times about ideas and if they are Eagle worthy, my pat response is, it depends how its written up. Some things I would look for How will he show leadership? How many hours does he project it will take to complete the project, a good goal os 100 hours. of course that is the biggest GUIDELINE as an Eagle project has no minimum but its a target to judge if the project is worthy. What is his schedule for getting this done? One day? Week end? Sounds good, but it depends on "how its written up"

play "Deadliest Catch", take a sheet of 4 x 8 plywood with a baseball centered under it. Have the cubs walks up and down the deck, as they do, the "deck" will pitch and roll as the weight changes. Have water thrown from buckets or shot (!) from hoses directed at the Cubs, last one to fall wins For Extra thrills, increase the size of the ball, and have cold/Ice water thrown, it is the North Pacific of course

I think a sedan chair for some of the more portly adult leaders might be fun, perhaps with a cage underneath it that houses doves/pidgeons that are released when they get to the Dining Hall would be fun