OldGreyEagle

Our Troop has done White Water Challengers quite often, each trip has a designated guide and 4-5 other guides who are all in kayaks. They do a safety briefing on the bus going to the drop off point and once on the water. They will hold the trip up once in awhile to gather the rafts up. We stop for lunch and its always a lot of fun. While its called white water, it is mild for an experienced person, but for scouts just learning, its great. They will furnish PFD's. As a note, depending on weather they may require a wet suit and have plenty on hand to rent. The camp facilities are very nice with heated showers. If you attend a scout week end a nice patch is included. Our Venture Crew is going up on June 8th and will raft on June 9, see you there? Anybody?

MommaScout, Indeed White Water Challengers in White Haven PA has a wonderful scout week end, for any type of scout. Over the past week end I attended our council's first Crew Rendezvous, 5 Crews attended with 3 of them being Co-ed and another being Co-ed capable (they have lady leaders) It went well and we had a great time, but then they were Ventures. Rather than try to change the Cub and Boy scout program, why not keep those already successful programs intact and work within the Venture program?

perhaps there should be a national brochure developed that would outline the Scouting program for new parents, it could explain the concept of the patrol method and list anticpated gear requirements, and a whole bunch other stuff I cant think of right now. The advantge would be all parents in the country would be getting the same message written the same way. Having a signed statement that this brochure was received may be a requirement for Scout. I know this brochure would not solve all the problems, I know a percentage of parents will sign they read it and never will. But, at least many more people will have seen the goals of Boy Scouts and will know what to expect. It dosesnt have to be long, just carry the basic information that many troops distribute, but in a consistent manner.

Rooster, it was over in the membership/Vietnam thread I believe

Ok, Bob, you got me, havent been to the new training, just was talking about what I had been told, will check it out IN PERSON as soon as possible. Now, what about the parental orientation brochure from National, we have scout handbook, a scoutmaster handbook, all manner of training materials, why not a parental informational sheet?

Perhaps the issue should be what is "cool" or as Rooster so adroitly pointed out, "sweet". If wearing your pants down so half your boxers are showing is cool, then scouts are not cool If singing songs with mutiple F-bombs in them is cool, then scouts are not cool If promoting lewd sexual conduct is cool, then scouts are not cool BUT If being part of a team that accomplishes seemingly impossible feats (back packing trips, rock climbing, etc) is cool, then scouts are cool If being part of a group where your input is valued and respected is cool, then scouts are cool If having adults recognize that as adolescents you have the ability to plan, organize and implement a plan, then scouts is WAY COOL but it does depend on what the youth see as cool and what we (adults) see as cool.

Bob, first you say "Excuse my OGE but, if you are suggesting that we communicate information to adults in order to educate them about scouting, and to effect a change in their actions or attitiude.....isn't that a definition of training." then 15 minutes later you say "There is a phrase in teaching that says "If the learner hasn't learned than the teacher hasn't taught" What I want to communicate is that same idea I agree "training" is required, but the current programs dont seem to be doing the job for whatever reason. I know the training has been changed, but it seems like it has been changed to a less detailed presentation. Now I know the above sounds like its from the Department of Redundancy Department, but I hope you understand what I mean Its the content of the training, not the concept of training I quesiton. On the parental side: Does National have a print out of what new scouting parents should know ? Of the goals and objectives of the program? If not, wouldnt that be a good idea? A parent orientation manual? That way everyone gets the same message worded the same way? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Without trying to be "smart", something I am normally not often accused of (as well as being grammatically correct, could all the things mentioned here have any thing to do with the thread under the Politics and Issues heading titled something about Scouting Membership being the lowest since the Vietnam war? We cant keep on saying training is the key. If the message isnt getting through to the adult leaders and more importantly to the parents about what scouts is supposed to be, is a wholesale change in the way BSA promotes itself in order? Training only works if its taken, how do we get the message across to those who never are trained? (esp parents)

Seldom being a man of few words, I would like to hear about longer Scoutmaster minutes that are your favorites. Mine is when the Scoutmaster stands in the center of the troop, takes a single arrow and says this represents one scout, he then snaps it in two (be sure its a wooden arrow)after talking about how stress and other challenges could cause a scout to "break". Then he holds up 8 arrows ( or whatever number your "average patrol" is) and when he tries again, he cant break the arrows. Then he says, " you find strength when you stick together" This can be done in a minute, my scoutmaster did it when I was 14-15 and I can still see it happening

I thought the dangle went back to the "old" days when an OA member got ONE lodge patch for life. The idea was you put the lodge patch on your "dress uniform" and then wore the dangle on all other uniforms to show your were an OA member

Why are they leaving? Sports? Band? Oher committments? Poor program? with 100 scouts did they get lost in the program? There has to be a reason, some may be legitimately not the troops fault, but I would check into it for sure. What has their retention rate been until now? Last year, 2 years ago? Got to be a reason. We have a large troop and I know the commitee chair feels sad for any ONE we lose,let alone for 10 in a year from one "class"(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I try to stay out of these discussions as I dont have the mental capacity to follow all the arguments and cross arguments, but something Bob White said hit a cord. First of all, I disagree with BSA'a policy on gay leaders, but saying that let me paint an analogy: Given a recent posting I made on sports, I hate to use a sports example, but I never claimed to be consistent: If I was the starting Quarterback for the greatest NFL franchise of all time (Da Bears) I would be in heaven first, but second of all, I think I would know better than to show up at practice wearing a Bret Favre jersey or have the Green Bay logo tattoed on my cheek or cheer a Green Bay touchdown when the Packers play the Bears. If I did these things, and I was cut, I might claim my first amendment rights were violated, but NFL football clubs are private organizaitons and I can see if you are part of one team, it's not a good idea to openly root for another team (especially when you play them) The BSA is a private organization and gets to make up its membership rules. And if you publicly disagree, I can see see them removing you. Bob, am I on the right track?

Ok, I totally embarrased myself a while back when sctmom asked about scouting trivia. Half of my answers to my OWN questions were wrong. So, I could have sworn Boyce was from Peoria, did I get that wrong? All I see now is that he was from Chicago. Did the encounter actually happen with Boyce and the Unknown Boy Scout? Last time we went over this topic, Bob White mentioned an article that said the story might have been "romantized". I had an old biology teacher who used to say "its not what you dont know that gets you in trouble, its what you think you know that just aint so (notice, Biology teacher not English) So, how did Scouting get across the pond?

I was a bit surprised to read that perhaps parents see sports as a more favored activity than Scouting. I dont question that some parents think this way, I just dont understand it. Perhaps a boy is on a traveling soccer or hockey team, maybe he will be one of the lucky few to get an athletic scholarship and perhaps one of the extremely very few who get to make a living as a pro athlete. However, for most of the teen age atheletes, when they are 30 and discussing past acomplishments, being a center on a traveling hockey team ( or sport of your choice) will pale next to being able to say, I am an Eagle Scout. Isnt being an Eagle Scout a big plus on a college application and on job applications? At least for entry level positions where the difference of who gets the job may other wise rest on the shiniest shoes or some other trifle? Now I am admittedly prejudiced, but when I say my son is an Eagle, I am dang proud. Athletic glory will come and go, but my boy will always be an Eagle.

the biggest problem I have seen with troop buses is the long term committment. You may have a CDL with a few other people, but in 4 years, what then? Will the mechanic still be there, will other CDL holders join up, what about a major mechanical break down, what happens in 10 years. I dont know how other troops do it

Success breeds success, our troop is at 90 scouts, parents see our calender, see how much adult involvment we have while still being youth led and they want to come and of course, we dont refuse anyone. They come for the program and stay for the program. (now if we could just get them thinking planning in 2-3 year cycles, but they are still not quite there yet) How do you reach more youth? On a local level be sure your troop attends first night or scout night and show pitures of what you have done and what you plan to do. Our District devoted one Roundtable as an Open house to Webelous parents,or any parent of scouting aged youth, each troop had a display, with power point presentations, posters, schedule, etc. It was advertised locally as a public service ad and we got a good response. (our Rountable is held in a church so there were no "First Amendment" issues) On a national level, has there ever been a documentary on Philmont, Sea Base or the Boundary Waters that could be shown on the travel channel, TLC or Discovery. If not, why not? Wouldnt scenes of scouts in the mountains of New Mexico, paddling the waters of the Northern Tier or snorkling in the Keys be a real draw? Or for that matter just a "regular" troop going on a camp out, cooking over an open fire, sleeping under the stars, and youth making decisions for themselves Boys Life has run Scouts in Action for years (ever since I was a bobcat, boyslife was the first magazine I ever read cover to cover, perhaps the only one as well) Why not a series of Scouts in Action made into public service like announcement to run on TV during sports events , either football, basketball etc. (Cartoon network even.) Scouts has so much positive to offer, lets put the good news out there even if we have to pay for it. Infomercials anybody? Heck they must work judging by the number of them I see, couldnt we get some company to fund a spot or two ? Our Venture Crew spent a night watching "Adventure" films, I cant name it right now, but a Canadian company runs a film competition each year and then takes the winners on the road. This year there were stories about guys base jumping in the artic circle, three guys who took a sailboat to Antartica, a story about how the residents arounf Mt Baker, Washington coped with 140 inches of snow in 1999. BSA should enter a film about the positive aspects of the program and what it does, Follow a Philmont Trek, or something of that nature. The point is, lets show just how cool scouting is... (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Actually Post the Declaration of Independence in a prominent spot in the court house/whatever? Now is that a concept we can all agree on or what?

heck, as a Venture Leader I see how many things require a "certified" leader or consultant and then the Council has no idea what qualifies as a "certified leader" and has no idea of how to train us anyway

These guys keep comming up with the same "new" ideas, lets play paintball (cant do that as a scout), lets go rent go carts, (cant), lets take a hot air balloon ride (cant) lets rent jet skis (cant), its like they know what they cant do and bring them up just so the adults have to say no. I would like fresh ideas, but how do you get them from youth who have a relatively sheltered experience?

Just had our troops 2002-2003 planning meeting. Mid-way through it I was thinking, how do we assure a "fun" program and not be heavy handed adults. We gave the boys the past two years calenders and instructions that any was possible. After a 20 minute discussion about climbing Mt Everest was squelched by the scout master, the planning was rather uninspired. (the SPL was the one discussing Everest as much as anyone) The PLC at a recent training week end said they wanted more "fun" trips, yet they went with the stuff we have done before, even though the adults were encouraging trying new things. So, how do you push the envelope of what is possible yet practical, while not directing the process?

Scouting is a boy ( unless it Ventures) preparing for life by learning skills and accomplishing goals in the context of a youth lead organization. There in emphasis on Outdoors skills, and while this is the main focus, other skills may be presented as the boys wish. I cant emphasize enough the charactor aspect as well, learning and living the values of the scout law and scout oath. This may be part of keeping the cool in scouting, but to be said of a youth, " he is such a boy scout" in an honor, not a dis.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

How far from New Braunfels? Gotta love the Schlitterbahn on a hot day, The hill country is the best part of Texas

OOps, I should have said where in south Texas SagerScout, I have been to McAllen, Edinburg and Rio Grande City as well as Eagle Pass, Corpus Christi and Angleton. Was I ever close?

My favorite scoutcamp in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD Camp Minsi, Pocono Sumitt, PA

Weather a problem? Gee at the National Jamboree it rained so hard my sons tent had a foot of water in it, actually he was lucky, most had 18 inches or more. And he wants to go back next time as an adult leader...And speak about hot??? Parents dont want little johnny to go to Summercamp? Wow, I know I am in a large troop, (90) but we will be going in the third week of July and we have 50-52 scouts committed for camp already and 18 adults as well. Its a tradition in our troop to go to camp and the kids who advance are the ones who went to camp. I think we may have a life scout who has earned almost all his merit badges at camp, or at least started them there. Summercamp, the camp fire programs, the running around, the corny continuing themes the staff does, the fellowsip, waking to the sound of a gentle (!!!) rain bouncing off your tent. Having a skunk visit the scouts tent who you warned not have snacks arond. Having deer creep around your camp site. Getting up at 6:30 AM to take the troop contingent down to Frigid Froggy, seeing the fog/steam rise off the lake as the sun peaks over the horizon (Camp Minsi, Pocono Summitt PA) meals cooked and dishes done for you. (do your parents think their kids eat less than $125 per week plus no dirty shoes in the house for a week, etc. The OA campfire program, with the chief being brought by canoe to the campfire location. Doing the mile swim, staying up extra late to do the field work for astronmomy merit badge, watching the big dipper as it wheels across the sky The kids in out troop have a tradition of centering the picnic tables under the dining flys and sleeping out, "in the open" all together. The first year scouts go as kids, and come back as scouts and unified. Homesick? Our camp does have a phone, and scouts have called before, telling parents to come and get them. We tell the parents that before they come, to call and talk to the scoutmaster first. We have had kids call, and by the time the parents arrive, the kids has decided camp is not that bad. We will work with the kids to be sure no one is upset, and work through it with them, usually by having an older scout talk about his first summer camp. And where in South Texas are you Momma?