OldGreyEagle

Whoa there, you mean I agree with Rooster? That either means Satan will be getting an Ice Water bath or I am wrong... Wait, unless it means we finally found some common ground.

PSS Ok, last one, I keep thinking of stuff to add. Isnt the critical thinking we are talking about Ethics? or at the very least Philosophy? History is about the background needed to understand the Philosophic teachings of Plato and Socrates as they had a much different view than those of Rousseau and Voltaire, and Kant. Perhaps becasue they lived in such historically different times?

PS Can anyone tell me if in Japan when they teach history if the question whether or not the Attack on Pearl Harbor should have been carried out is asked?

Right, Trailday, I can see it. The decision to drop the atomic bomb would be an exercise in critical thinking. The whole management of the Manhattan project could be viewed in that context. We had the smartest people of our country racing to do something we knew our enemies smartest people were also doing. Then when we perfected it, the question was whether or not it should be used on "people" or should a "demonstration" be arranged. Many of the top scientists wanted to let Japan know we had a weapon beyond measure and to watch a certain location and then an Atomic bomb would have been exploded. The idea would be to allow Japan to surrender before the bomb was used on a Japanese city. Then the question becomes did Truman do the right thing? In the context of ending the war and saving the death and destruction of an assault on Japan, the answer is yes, but in terms of was the most ethical descision made, you could debate it. Then again, without knowing that Pearl Harbor occurred on December 7, 1941 (a date that will live in infamy) and of the exploits of American Forces in Europe and the Pacific Theatre at Guam and Guadalcanal and , wihout knowing about the Battan Death March and MacArthurs return to the Phillipines the descison to drop the Atomic bomb cannot be discussed until the entire stage is set. And that stage, the "dry" facts of timelines and who did what to who is what to me is history. Never dry as the past shapes the fabric of our culture and society of today.

VH, I dont see how you can teach how the past shapes the future or how to think critically about historical problems without an understanding of what happened. And, to me, what happened IS HISTORY. I dont see how you can teach your numbers 2 and 3 without 1 and 4, unless I miss the point which is eternally possible. Now, you mentioned something that tweaked my interest. What is an example of "thinking critically about a historical problem?" I am not sure I understand that phrase.

CoffeeLady, You talk about them wanting to disband your troop and that the boys were all teased by other troops who did not want them. Is this a Special Needs troop? What characteristics do the boys have that would elicit teasing of this level?

In our troop our Chaplain's Assistant always has a scouts own on sunday morning. With Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Hindu members of the troop, its a challenge, but the Chaplain Aide writes one with adult help. And all scouts attend, as a scout is Obedient and Reverent and if anyone is offended by the service, its discussed with the scout, chaplain aide, scoutmaster and parents to be sure the troop knows the problem. the services get generic, but they still speak of the creator

As a group that advocates traditional family values, I do not see how any scouter can question a parents choice of disciplinary methodology. We may not agree with it, but we cant question it. I may not agree with homeschooling, and I know there are many who regularly post here, but its their right to do so and I defend that right. I may not agree with grounding from Boy Scouts, but I would defend a parents right to do so.

Here, try this, its a nice ceremony all scripted out, though Weekenders looks good as well http://users.aol.com/coffeeweb/LO/newsm.htm

First, Congrats on being a SM Next, Council really cant replace you as SM, only your charter organization can do that, right Bob White? So, I wouldnt worry about that. Do you have a unit commissoner? Have you shared your thoughts with him/her? Let us know more, there are many fine dedicated scouters on here and all will lend a hand to help

I have some, leave your email address and I will send them to you

Mike, I understand your not wanting to be the one to remove the boy from scouting. So, don't be. Let the boy remove himself. You have already laid fine groundwork. You have a mandate from your committee (not that you needed one) that you are right so you have the support you need. Very soon, if not at your next meeting or at the very least the one after that put your uniform policy in written form. Spell out what is acceptable and what is not. Have included the number of times a scout may show up "out of uniform" before he receives a "verbal" warning (usually 3) then after another 3 times a "written" warning and another 3 means counseling and possible expulsion from the troop. I know this seems tedious, and you can adjust the numbers, but lay it out and follow it. If it gets to the counseling stage, its not you who has decided to remove the boy from scouting, it is the boy. One word of warning, all the troop knows what happened. You must take control or you lose any control. Lay out the process and follow it, all eyes are on you.

I have a quesiton for those of you who have "policies" concerning how many merit badges a scout may earn from a parent or any other merit badge counselor. As this is not supported by any BSA policy, what do/would you do if a scout challenged it. Say in Shemgren's troop (not picking on you, you just have the last post) a scout wants to do 6 merit badges, all Eagle required and wants his father to be the counselor. His father is well qualified and is listed as a registered Merit badge counselor. You tell the scout that is against the Troops policy, but his father, a trained counselor says the troop policy is contrary to BSA policy and he will fight you all the way. What do you do? BTW, our troop has an "informal adult agreement" no parent will sign off an Eagle required merit badge for their son unless its done in a group. As far as I know, this has always been respected, but if a parent came forward and did it, the troop cant stop it(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Came back from our RT last night and I thought it was pretty good. 4 scouts presented rules of safe hiking and 12 hikes close to the area that they liked, then the RT staff took a half hour to present techniques on how to deal with "trouble makers", I found it worthwhile and informative. I dont know if all RT's follow the same format, in our district Troops present the topics. As you would expect, the topics as as much fun or interesting as the presenters make them. The 7th grade teacher is a stitch and fun to listen to whatever he presents while I would swear others try to imitate Ben Stein as the biology teacher in Ferris Buellers Day Off. Next month we meet outside and each troop will cook its favotite recipe and share the recipes and product with attendees. (no open fires of course, the church where it is held wouldnt appreciate burn marks on the lawn) So I guess the answer is, no, not all RT are boring, just some

NJ, I hope belei in the bible doesnt become prerequisite for membership in BSA else the Boy Scout readers of the Torah and Koran might be confused as well as followers of Shinto, Buddha, Hindu and Native Americans and a whole lot of other faiths BSA recongnizes that regard the bible as another book. I was a bit surprised when TJ said in another thread that BSA was close to being linked as a "christian" group or some such thing. I thought of you and how many times you have expressed that as a follower of the Jewish faith you resented talk of the Christian God. (I hope I got that right, if not I apologize) I thought it was strange that TJ would make such a reference when you have been a downright arch ally of his views on Gays in Boy Scouts. Since he takes time to debate his detractors, I would think he would also have time to know his allies, or at least people who hold similar views.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Thanks Bob and Slont, I appreciate your answers. And Bob, I dont call what other people may say about you, I am glad you are a regular on this forum. If one of our past ex-presidents had been more of a rules and regulations guy, some major scandals would have been avoided. And I found the "Sweet Sixteen" on the USSSP, again Thanks(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Does anyone know if BSA has age restrictions on power tools? I have not been able to find any reference on this except for chain saws and log splitters are to be used only by authorized persons over 18. It has been widely regarded that scouts (under 18) could not use power tools, is this right? Is there a reference one way or the other?

I always have been uncomfortable discussing this and this is the only post I will make on this subject. The priest that molested me and raped my brother was a pediphile pure and simple, he was not gay. He did not exhibit "gay" characteristics and when he left our parish he was always in the compnay of young teen boys. He was never in the company of men, only children. My brother and I harbor no ill will against gays, only priests. For my part I have no problem having gay leaders in Boy Scouts as I know from personal experience that Gay DOES NOT equal pedophiliac and have distrusted priests ever since even tho I attend church regularly The abuse ocurred over a period of years and in true fashion we never told anyone about it. In my case, it never occured to me to tell anyone I just wanted it to stop. When I stopped putting my self alone with the priest he moved on to my brother. We never talk about this, perhaps we should. Later in life I did report him to the Diocese. Do not tell me its a Gay issue, pedophilia is separate, I know I was there.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

AMEN ED, The Roman Catholic Church has a problem with Pedophile Predatory Priests, not with gay priests. Whether a priest is homosexual or heterosexual, it makes no difference since he is NOT expected to have a sex-life.

I know how parochial this area is, and I would hate to think I was becomming as cloistered as a native, but I prefer to think of myself as in bethlehem as opposed to being just out of Allentown... Where are you?

Bear, your last posting caught my eye, you said of the SM "But, he also has a full calendar with his hand in other chartered organizational ministries, which is great but this really spreads him thin". Perhaps the SM would welcome a reduciton is responsibilities. If he is that spread out, maybe an "Executive ASM" position could be created, a trained ASM who could help him out and perhaps be groomed to replace the SM. And when I say "replace" the scoutmaster, I dont mean he is gone, out the door never to be seen again, maybe as Scoutmaster Emeritus (from Follow Me Boys). That way he can gradually reduce his role with dignity and honor and the troop can get on track

As a frequent business traveler I barely got my basic training in, with the old curriclum, does anybody know if the new curriculum may be done online? Is there a need? Seems like lots of folks dont have the training availible and online training would have the advantage of consistency but the disadvantage of lack of fellowship, what do you think?

Have you talked to the Unit Commisoner or Chartering organization representative? As I understand it, the Scoutmaster serves at the pleasure of the Charering Organizaiton.

I beleive Oscar de la Renta desiged the current Boy Scout uniform

Sager, Sager, Sager, Sager, Sager, First the beating up and hanging on a fence comment and then "Yes, it's much harder as a leader to manage than a nice stable little troop of bright, homogeneous middle class kids from two-parent families and all one religion, but often the difficult tasks are the most rewarding. " So, leaders of bright homogeneous middle class kids from 2 parent families and one religion DONT have challenges? They dont face problems and should not be honored for the time and committment they have made? And where in today's society do this group even exist? (especially the 2 parent part) I applaud your committment to a culturally diverse and ethnically mixed group that also has various levels of intellectual abilities, but denigrating others does nothing to exalt your efforts which stand on their own.