OldGreyEagle

DDHII, you have at least one admirer, the retiring commissioner, dont forget that and you can look to him/her for counsel. As for my advice, here goes: If you want to be taken serious by the adults, prove to them you are serious. Number one, always have the impeccable uniform (I know you already said you were gonna do this, but its so important I had to repeat it), next be sure to attend all district commissioner meetings. Next, start taking as much training in being a commissioner that you can. When offered, attend Commissioner College and keep going back as much as you can. When the adults see you are committed, you will be respected, even if not accepted by some. (some of my chronological peers can be real pains in the neck about personal appearance) As for listening to loud music, the final exchange of the skit my son wrote for summercamp was: Scout 1: did you get that shirt dirty on the overnight? Scout 2: no, it got staind in a puddle of mud when I was running through linkin park, you know three doors down from here? I tripped over a slipknot. I wanted to see the gorillaz eat, but I was late and all I saw were bare naked ladies. (and I understood it) Your adults never listened to Steppenwolf, Rare Earth, The Who or Three Dog Night? How old are these guys?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Yaworski, So by keeping up your unique style of commentary I can only surmise you do care about Boy Scouts and use your contrarian, abrasive, "devil's advocate" style to make people think. Glad to have you aboard, its the grit in the polish that makes the metal shine

"Old Gray Eagle & Bob White, I didn't ever think that I'd hear myself saying this, but I agree with you guys entirely." In the words of Judy Tenuta "It could happen..."

If a scout does the minimum requirements, he still did the required requirements, and since you cant add to or take away requirements, then he met the requirements.

So I stand corrected, Although I am not sure how since its says silver outranks gold. Yaworski, if there is so much wrong in Boy Scouts, why do you stay? I havent reread every entry you have made, but your tone is generally disagreeable on every topic, why do you stay?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Someone has to explain the difference between ethics and morals. I would have a hard time saying that my Venture Crew isnt as moral as my Boy Scout Troop. In our area, Scouting appears to be up, we have grown from a troop of 20 when my son joined 5 years ago to 90 today. Now, as has been discussed in many places, we dont have an artificially concocted attendance requirement and we allow as many adults on a trip that want to come. We have an active program that focuses on inclusion, not exclusion. I am not sure how scouting is not current, as its the boys who determine the program and schedule. I am not sure its money either as my doorbell is rung constantly for Little League, Middle School and High School Bands, oh and some organization that touts itself as the Girl Scouts sells cookies. I dont think fundraising keeps kids out of scouts. All youth groups raise money. The uniform? as my son keeps saying, "if those shorts werent so dorky", he would rather wear long uniform pants, and did at summercamp, rather than wear those shorts. The shirt, however, he wears with pride. Talk about weird uniforms, ever see the get up some schools make their bands wear? I dont think its the uniforms either. But then, I can only talk from my observations, I dont see scouting numbers going down in my area, why do you think they are going down in yours?

I have always heard it explained that the reason BSA goes Bronze, Gold, Silver with Palms and uses Silver as its highest awards is because thats the way the military does it. (not to say BSA is a militaristic or paramilitary (dif?) organization)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Just a note on being an ASM son and ASM father. I dont know about your troop, Venturer2002, but when I was a scout, I knew my father the ASM expected me to be better than the rest and I had best know my skills, because he wasnt above throwing a rope at me at any time to tie a knot, and I had better be able to tie it, or decode a bit of morse code. As an ASM I was known to have my son tie a knot as a minutes notice, he was up on his knots, cause he knew I was liable to do that. All of our ASM have sons in the troop and all are harder on their kid then anyone else. I cant understand why in the world anyone would limit parental involvement in a youth volunteer program.

Bob, I would write you an Email, except I have not had any luck with sending personal messages from this forum. Two scouters from out troop were at Philmont this year. Our Scoutmaster was there for training and another Scouter who is the Chair of the District Advancement Committee went as well for Advancement training (as opposed to advanced training as he said). Both went in the latter part of July Anyway, the point is, were you in any of these sessions? You may have been rubbing elbows with guys I know and would like to know if you remember them or they you. Any way you can email me at LLordbadenpowell@aol.com (I love that address)

"Well, as you can tell by my original post, I limit the adults. But thats our program" Yeah, that may be your program, but I resent you masquerading it as a Boy Scouts of America Troop. Having a closed program and restricting adults has no place in BSA, its supposed to be an open program where parents can drop in any time to see what we are doing with their sons. It may work for you, but again, its not the Boy Scout way

Being a member (adult) of a Coed Venture crew I can attest to the benefits and challenges of a Coed program. Our crew has had two presidents in its tenure and both are female. Our crew spearheaded a Council Crew Rendevous. The female chair of the Organizing committee received the Council's first Venture Leadership award. That being said, I see no reason to disturb the Boy Scout/Girl Scout programs. Youth may join Ventures when they are 14 and out of 8th grade and thats how it should remain. (IMHO)

"THE MORE THE MERRIER" Amen Brother Eagle90, Amen

In our troop, we took 62 kids to camp and had 14-18 adults at any one time with 12 staying all weeek. On most campouts we have 25-30 kids with 8-10 adults. ScoutNut, you are in an unhealthy situation, the scoutmaster cant dictate who stays with your child any more than I can. I dont see how you can restrict adult involvement, whether trained or not, Boy Scouts is supposed to be and open program. How many adults? as many that want to come. We may space ourselves out in the camp, but we cook and function as a patrol, normally the "Ol'Buzzards"

Thank you scomman, I was hoping that was the case

Holy Cow Batman, Robin beefed... Scomman, I have to tell you that I am a little shocked that a troop would have a form letter for the expressed purpose of expelling a scout from the troop. How often is the letter used in a year abd how many scouts are in your troop and can you give the scenario when the letter was last used?

Sctmom, hard as it is to beleive, I wasnt born knowing how to tie a bowline on a bight or a sheet bend or a double fisherman's knot. Until last week I had never been down a class 5 rapid before (Kennebec river just below Harris Station) Many men in our troop have never camped out before their sons joined the troop and some who did still cant start a fire without matches. I rely a lot on the outdoor skills I learned as a scout and my father taught me hunting. However I still had to learn about polypropolene and Goretex and propane gas stoves when my son joined. The point is, there is nothing wrong with not knowing how to do something, the experience just gives you incentive to learn a new skill. And learning new skills is a trait common to both sexes.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Males who are threatened by women in leadership positions do not deserve to be called men.

No

With a Doctor, and Dentist and a Physician Assisntant as trained leaders in our troop along with two Search and Rescue Team members ( one youth, one adult), we allow pagers and phones. All adults are able to have phones or pagers and the use is voluntarily held to a minimum. The adults use the pagers as tools of their work and not as a recreational device

We exclude all electronics from the boys during campouts and activities. adults are allowed pagers and phones

I asked my quesiton about Scouting Hierarchy to get a feeling for the number of positions and how they get picked, etc. Another thing is the length of time these positions serve. I thought of this when I saw DenSoCal post. And I have no reason to beleive he is not an upright, outstanding Scouter, as his district has received 4 honor citations in 7 years. But... Should Council or District volunteer positions have a limit? In our council it seems some scouters settle in a position forever, (at least 3 years or more) and only change to take another position. Some do an outstanding job, but others dont. How can you wedge out those who like to talk about the way it was in the good old days while putting down current policies without embarrassing them? I have a few in mind who have contributed much to the program over many years, both through effort and money, but its time for them to let new people in. I want to respect their past contributions, as the council wouldnt be what it is without them, but also I would like to see some people with new ideas and attitudes as well, any ideas?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I am not sure how many of the readers of this forum subcribe to Boys Life magazine, or have a son in the family who does. I always like to read the adventures of PeeWee Harris although I dont like his remake, I thought the original version was better, then again I may be just Old School. One other thing, as far as I can remember Boy's Life has always furnished stories about Scouts who are either nationally ranked Snowboarder, Snow Skier,Water Skier or some other such activity. In the August edition there is a story about a Skim Boarder who is also a Life Scout. I wonder if he would meet the attendance requirements listed by some troops here. I wonder if those other nationally ranked scouts would make the attendance requirements. Now, Troops CAN make all the attendance requirements they like, they can enforce them and pride themsleves on their rules. It will be against national policy, but I am not sure that matters to them. I was looking at a list of Eagle Scouts, former Senator Bill Bradley is on that list. As I remember he was a Rhodes Scholar and a pretty fair Basketball player. I wonder how many Scout Activities he missed due to practices and games, turned out to be a credit to scouts though. Olympian Willie Banks held world records in the triple and long jumps. He is also an Eagle scout. I am glad no one asked him to choose between scouts and track practice and meets. Hammerin' Hank Aaron probably missed some meetings while he was doing his baseball thing, I am glad no one asked him to choose between baseball and scouts, he made Eagle. President and Eagle Scout Gerald Ford played a little football in high school and college, must have missed a few meetings. Troops with attendance requirements be sure you know who you are excluding, they just might be alrght folks. Now, on sunday July 28th I am off to the Maine backwoods for a little whitewater action so I wont be able to respond, catch you all later. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

No

Congrats from an OldGreyEagle and from his scion, Young Grey Eagle... Dang, I need to get him his own name Anyway, let the celebration begin... continue....

Your not the only one, Last year (sept 2001) the PLC said they thought every scout going to summer camp in 2002 should have a complete Class A uniform. This meant uniform pants/shorts as well as a shirt. In the past, only a shirt was required. Well, after all the times it was mentioned, all the times it was printed in hand-out, two scouts showed up in camp without uniform pants supported only with a parental "I didnt know". And one was an ASM. So its not only you