OldGreyEagle

If you read the original story, you will note I told him that he was lucky the bag didnt break or else he/we would have had a large cleaning bill. So had it broken, yes, he would have been held responsible. I didnt write that I had told him not to do that again due to all the reasons listed, but if you remember the name of the thread was Humourous stories, I didnt think to add that part. I guess I need my sense of humor adjusted. When I read Yawoski's initial post, I knew what he was doing and wrote my response tongue in cheek. If you notice, I say I am in counseling and that I havent "technically' abused my son yet. I thought that was a give away I wasnt serious. Then when Yaworski posted what I took to be a serious reply, I snapped. One of my favorite books of all time is "Steppenwolf" by Herrman Hesse. In the book there is a dream sequence where the books hero is put on trial for the crime of "taking himself to seriously". I find myself guilty of the charge and sentence my self to at least 10 days away from this forum. If/when I come back I will strive to be scout like in all posts.

Eisely, A good succint statement of what I was trying to say

I remember that one with the "older" lady (age is relative after all). Also had one I saw where a couple of scouts climb past a man on a sheer cliff and stop to hand him a wallet, saying " you dropped this back there" I saw a few billboards down in the southeast a few years ago, but that was it.

Yaworski, if you actually think I care what you think, you are so far over the top there is no pulling you back. Your posts are so full of crude and vulgar references and uncaring attitudes I shudder to think what type of example you set for scouts. I understand you have a right to post whatever you wish, I have a right to respond to it in any manner I wish. You may continue posting your distorted views, and I may actually respond to them, but in no way ever think I see you as a serious caring scouter who has anything of value to offer anyone here who asks a serious question. This post is for other readers so that when they read my reponses to your non-sense, they know up front I am not serious when responding to you. Your bullying posts do nothing to enhance this forum and have no redeeming value. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

If the child has that potential, then you need professional help ( for the child). In our troop we have a scout that has a problem with anger management. It must be pretty bad because the guy has an assisitant (pyschiatric aide) who comes to all the meetings and always has a parent at an outing. They are responsible for his behavior and the scouters take care of his scouting. Without the aide, he wouldnt be in the troop. All I am saying is lets work with families and try alternatives before we say I/we cant handle it. Alone maybe not, but why not explore alternatives?

I think in Junior Leader Training (he attended and has been on staff for two years and this year he was asked to be a Venture on Woodbadge staff, the same one I am taking, am I proud, yes)he learned 11 points of leadership. 1. Understanding the needs and characteristics of the group 2. Knowing and using the resources of the group 3. Communicating 4. Planning 5. Controlling Group performance 6. Evaluating 7. Setting the Example 8. Sharing Leadership 9. Counseling 10. Representing the group 11. Effective Teaching as a recap, While on the PLC training week end he and the older scouts were in a cabin room trying to sleep while in another room younger scouts were not settling down. After repeated requests for the younger scouts to quiet down, my son went over to the other room, raised his urinary drainage bag to eye level and said "you guys be quiet, this is loaded and I am not afraid to use it" or something close to that. Lets see, He knew the next day had a full schedule of training and skills development, so he knew that all need a good nights sleep, he demonstrated knowing and understanding the characteristics of the group. He and the other older scouts told the younger one to settle down by many requests and beseeches, therefore demonstrating Communication. He and the other older scouts got together to formulate a plan to get the younger ones quiet. Therefore they demonstrated Planning. The older group of scouts decided to have my son go over with his bag, thus they demonstrated Sharing Leadership. When my son went over to talk to the younger scouts he was definitiely Representing the group of the older scouts. When he held his bag up, he wasnt threatening anybody, merely employing the knowing and untilizing the resources of the group, this resource was used to control group performace by counseling the younger scouts. He was setting an example that it was time to settle down and get to sleep, which is the definition of Effective Teaching. So, rather than throw him out, he and his compatriots should be celebrated for using their training. Although I did tell him he was lucky the bag didnt burst else we/he would have had a huge cleaning bill. And dont worry, I have been and am still going to counseling, my shrink and I feel I havent yet technically "abused" him yet although I have been harsh without cause, he gets to talk to his urologist without me in the roon, so he could report abuse if he wanted. And on your suggestion, I'll probably thrash him after dinner just in case he thinks he got away with something

Pursuant to the thread on the Autictic child from Kentucky, and so we dont stray from that topic, I would like to know, when you signed on as a Scouter, what challenges did you expect and what topics do feel is beyond what you should be expected to handle? Personally, if the family is wiiling to work with the troop, I am not sure there is any boy who cant be a scout unless the boy is a danger to himself or others

Without any communication between the family and troop, and no attempt to try any remedial course of action, I dont see how scouting is not for this boy. I dont see how the scoutmaster could say in effect, " I didnt sign up for this". What did he sign up for? A troop with nothing but 2 parent families living in single families dwellings? Does he get to throw out the ADD, Dyslexic kids as well?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Our District is holding a flag retirement ceremony with all troops, packs, crews, ships, girl scout units invited

Sounds like the ball was dropped a few times on both sides. The mother could have been more forthcomming with information about her son's condition and the troop could be a little more flexible. Rather than saying "you go away", they could have said, "look, for everyone's best interest, we need to talk about how to keep Jerry in scouts". Then after working on alternatives with the the family, things will work out or not. Having the scoutmaster say its either him or me is grandstanding beyond the realm of a scouter. The scout shouldn't be punished because of inaction by his mother and overreaction by the troop. This does bring up how often in the forum it seems like we want to boot kids out of a troop. I remember a story about a shepard who had 100 sheep. One day as he was counting them, he realized he was missing one. After locking up the 99, he went off and searched for the lost one. Finally he found it, and although he had to risk his life to rescue it, he brought the sheep back with him and asked his friends to rejoice that the lost had been found. Maybe as scouters we should spend more time finding lost sheep.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

The SPL? Dont get me started... The guy is an Owl, and I our patrol is giving him an owl pellet...(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Wait a minute, thats the Charter Scoutmaster clause he gets to do anything he wants, its right here in the scoutmaster handbook page, page, page..... Oh wait a minute, its not here, its not anywhere, a SM is SM is SM whether the first or hundred and first, the rules are the same.

I am not sure what the scout was thinking as catching an axe in an overhanging branch would mean he did not properly check out his chopping area which would also cost him a few corners. (this from a guy who during his summer camp as a scout buried a hatchet in his knee)

after reading Zorn's post, mine will seem very pedestrian. The biggest problem we face is having so many scouts on medication during summer camp, that our committee chair (a pediatrician) has to have two footlockers, one for herself and another for the drugs. We have to have a sign out method for the drugs and when she is gone (horrors!!!) some one has to fill in for her. On a personal level, when my son had his ureters connected to his colon so he would urinate and defecate at the same time, it was a little tough explaining why he needed at least a latrine nearby at all times. And on back packing trips I carried the portable toliet seat and plastic bags. He didnt want anyone to know he couldnt pee like a "Normal" kid. Then when he had surgery to create the stoma he now drains and had to sleep with a drainage bag attached, he was quite upset and embarassed. However, the good news is (read the humorous story thread) he has adjusted well to the bag and the whole deal.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Dan, me thinks you are trying to hard, Bears, we eat, mate and sleep (although preferably not in that order)

"nevermind" Emily Litella(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I think a thorough and complete explanaition to the committee is certainly warranted, especially if monetary demands are to be placed on a group. Everyone should have an opportunity to speak (as long as its rational and material to the incident). Before you get started, at least one groundrule, choose who will be your "adjuticator" beforehand and the decision is final, Your COR would be a good possibility

I think you are on the right path. To earn a merit badge all a scout "needs" is a signed blue card with a registered/recognized/whatever merit badge counselor for the Council on it. (along with a few other signatures, like the scoutmaster). Now, as we ALL know, no merit badge counselor may take away or add to requirements (the same as any BSA rank/award)but the scout will have to present to the official merit badge counselors the information required for these badges and have the counselors judge if the requirements have been met. The ranks cant be valid unless a BOR was done with commitee signatures let alone the SM and his Conference. Any reason why this family went the secretive route?

Holy intergalactic transharmonic convergence Batman... Bob White and Yoworski agree on a topic? I guess Judy Tenuta was right, not only could it happen, it did...

I have accepted I am a bear with the Eagle rank. I do have to admit that the sight of a soaring bald eagle gives one pause to reflect on the beauty of nature. But then, you must ask, why does the Eagle soar? Why does the Eagle fly? Cause its to chicken to stay and fight it out with the bear, the king of the forest!

Gee Yaworski, given all the great things you have said about me and my opinions and life experiences already it might be fun to see what you would do if you decided to make me a target. Then again, it might not be as much fun as you expect, because I think you would find me just a broken down rusted out husk of a man who perpetually rails at perceived injustices and transgressions perpertrated by the collusionistic denizens of unseen masses whose collective efforts keep me from taking my rightful place as one of the greatest intellectuals of our or any time. You would see how much I pine for the good ol'days where a quick belt across the face and "bein taken to the woodshed" was considered character development. That maybe keeping the wimmin folk barefoot and pregnant was not such a bad idea and who ever thought giving them the vote was a good idea. But most of all, I keep my indentity shielded because I choose to, and perhaps if asked under different circumstances I would reveal my alter ego, but since it matters so much to you...NO!

We cannot say what occurred between the two boys, but if the older boy had been provoked, even just a little, wouldnt he have said so when the adults talked to him that night? From the account given the older boy was pretty free with his information on what happened. He said he was messing with the younger kids mind, and admitted all the acussed behavior, nothing close to, "well, he made me!!!" If the younger one did anything unscoutlike, that should be dealt with as well, but given what we have to go on, I dont think he did.

Of course my view of the world is skewed. It is skewed by my unique blend of experiences that comes from growing up in the western suburbs of Chicago, having a father that was a DI in the Marines who was brought up on a farm in rural depression Maine and having a mother who was third generation Polish (wanna swap czarnina recipes?)who grew up in Chicago. I have a roman catholic background and spent three years in the seminary and earned Eagle in 1969. I cannot coment on anything I see except in the context of my experiences. Everyone who posts on this board can write a similar background paragraph like mine and all will be unique and specific to them. The only way humans can relate to anything is by drawing on the sum of their experiences. I dont know of anyone whose view of the world is not skewed. The only totally dispassionate observer would have to be an alien. You say that abuse was not as widespread as "they" would have you believe, perhaps you didnt experience in your background, but that doesnt prove it didnt happen. To say that things were great "the way they were" is truly sticking your head in the sand and thinking happy thoughts. You accused me of that once, the wheel comes full circle. Now, if your daughter's school idea of punsishment is as you describe, thats a problem. But I have to remind you, one schools experience does not a national trend make. Have you attended any PTO meetings and voiced your displeasure of the current discipline practice? DO you have any suggestions of your own? You say you are only speaking the plain truth, I say say I am speakling the plain truth, based on my experiences.

This may be the point where we take a look at history and see how we got here. Gone is the day when a man could beat his wife and have the neighbors turn a blind eye and deaf ear, after all, a mans house is his castle and he could literlly rule with an iron fist. Gone is the day when children could go to school with two black eyes or bruises up and down the kids torso and no one would question the childs explanation that "I fell out of bed". Gone is the day when while treating a recent injury, the Emergency Doctor finds evidence of multiple old injuries and dismisses them as a clumsy child, or "its not my role to judge" Maybe the pendulum has swung to far, maybe the "trained professionals" are out of control, that they see a world of abuse that doesnt exist, but, when you examine the past, you can see that we have arrived where we are for a reason, and it wasnt the "trained professionals" making things up it was society ignoring the monsters in our midst.

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