OldGreyEagle

I am taken most back from Zorn's comment. "Our society thinks that children are precious but they really aren't" If children are not precious,what are they? Chattel to be bargained with? Insignificant sub-beings? They are human life, arent they? and then the statement "There are children that cannot be saved and will never become a useful member of society." Who gets to decide who will and who will never become a useful member of society? At what point do we establish the "Aint worth a damn" commission who passes judgement on whether a child can be useful or not. Is Zorn qualified? Am I? Who gets to choose by whose parameters? This just may be hallowen comming, but I am getting seriously creeped out here

I usually carry a multi-purpose swiss army knife. It has the tiny scissors, and toothpick and tweezers. At work I would always get giggles when someone saw it for the first time. I would get some kinda comment like "what are you, a Boy Scout?" I would reply "Yes, an Eagle Scout thank you". Then of course I almost had to establish a check out system for people wanting to open packages, use the screw driver, and all the reasons for which you carry a pocket knife. One week end Mrs E and I were at a party, it was a pot luck kind of thing. Well, one couple brought an adult beverage that did not have a twist off cap, but actually had cork stuck in the bottle neck. The host and hostess were mortified as they didnt have a cork-screw. I was reaching for my pocket when I heard someone say, "Hey OldGrey, too bad your knife doesnt have a corkpscrew on it". The laughs were just dying down when I pulled it out of my pocket and announced, "But of course it does". The resulting uproar, I am told, registered at the local college's seismograph. NB: The party was NOT was not connected with scouts in any manner(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

So between now and the first of the year, a unit charges $1.50 more for an activity than was planned. They do this twice and they have it. I dont see this as a real problem, perhaps a communication problem on the local level, but as far as covering the expense, it is virtually nothing

Exactly the point Youngblood, you pull a gun out in Montana you have pretty good odds you will be staring down more than a few barrels...

I think I have mentioned it before, but with all the school violence, why aren't there more shootings in LA, Chicao, and New York? Maybe because its easier to pull a gun out and start shooting when you have no fear of return fire.

Daniel Webster? That lexiconographer devil!!!

I was telling a friend about this topic and he replied he had always heard that once the ties with the crown had been broken, there was an attempt to rid the language of all terms English. Hence the "reef" knot became the square. It is a thought. As Canado has always had a good relationship with England, the term stuck. Then again, if they really wanted to purge the language of all things English, we should have been speaking French, German, Native American, anything but English. But that would have meant the colonists learning a new language, so I guess Ameericans have been lazy in language for a very long time. What I want to know is why its a bowline?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Dang, I would have liked to have contributed to that. I hope they decide to use the same vocabulary in all training from JLTC through Woodbadge

Well, Sctmom, we are/were in patrols, there are patrol leaders, there is a Senior Parol Leader, and ASPL. right now I can tell you they are all elected. It hasnt always been that way. Up to two weeks ago the CC and the SM appointed these positons. I have worked on getting the unit to hold elections for 3 years (about how long ago I got SM fundamemntals) The troop over the years has had quite a few ADD/ADHD kids in it (Our CC is a pediatrician) she has quite a few of her patients in the troop. In the past the committee has felt the kids couldnt be trusted to elect competent leaders. When I started with the troop I was told thats the way they did things. Well, the topic of this thread is training. I got it, and am trying to use it. A few other people have been trained and are also trying to spread the idea. The SM kinda knew it but people on the committee were dragging their feet on the situation. Now after Philmont, he is really pressing the issue. Ignorance is bliss, when you learn that you doing it wrong, then you have to change it, its hard when the entrenched leaders are charismatic and repsected. I like them all, so to change behavior items will take some time.

Funny how a little communicaiton and heartfelt expressions of concern for students works... Bravo rlculver415 to all involved...

From what I understand, its called a reef knot because "The knot gets its name from its use on sailing ships, when the sails were "reefed" - rolled up and tied to the cross spar with a reef knot. To release the sail, the sailors would climb the rigging, and work their way along the cross spar, pulling the top end of the reef knot down. They only had to use one hand, holding on with the other. The weight of the sail would cause the reef knot to slip, and the sail would be released." England being a sea faring country, the name stuck. In the US, when your in Missouri, Nebraska, Iowa, sails on a ship are hard to imagine. A square knot sounds better as it does resemble one.

I dont know when you recharter, I take it since your post says the leaders dont want to recharter next year (meaning some time in 2003) that you have from now until at the very least Januaury 1, 2003 (while close, still over 60 days away) to get each family to come up with 3 more dollars. At any economic bracket, I hope that can be done. If by a Council Registration Fee, you mean an additional assesment per scout at registration time, I am not sure that is Boy Scout legal, but I will leave that up to those more worthy than I. Without knowing if its "legal", I would think it would be better to spread costs over as many people as possible. When my son played Little League, every year at registration we got 2 $20.00 boxes of chocolate bars to sell. We prepaid the 40 bucks upfront and if we could sell the stuff, we did, other wise we ate it (literally). I dont know the BSA policy on forced popcorn sales, but it would be a way to spread cost over everybody, but would also give the families a way to recover the expense. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I suggest you call the Council Office and ask for a list of Crews and whether or not they are Co-Ed.

Actually this could become the forums theme: Well, I dont know why I came here tonight, (I have a lot better things to do than checking this #$**& site every 10 minutes to see who is bashing who) I got the feeling that something aint right. (Can a scoutmaster really do that? And the Committe Chair, can he get away with that?) Im so scared in case I fall off my chair, (then again my Eagle son DOES have the first aid merit badge, though I hope he wasn't waved though that one and actually knows his stuff) And Im wondering how Ill get down the stairs. (I could repell, but I dont have Climb on Safely) Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you. (With All my forum buddies, I mean after all we are here for the boys right?) Yes, Im stuck in the middle with you, And Im wondering what it is I should do. Its so hard to keep this smile from my face, (those humorous stories are a stitch) Losing control, yeah, Im all over the place. (who did I agree with? whats the topic of this thread again? How did we get on this subject again?) Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you. (With All my forum buddies, I mean after all we are here for the boys right?) Well, you started off with nothing, And youre proud that youre a self-made man. And your friends they all come crawlin, Slap you on the back and say, Please, please. (Like Please explain this BSA policy to me, how do you know so much about BSA when all you do is sit at your computer all day?) Trying to make some sense of it all, But I can see it makes no sense at all. (that would be members talking about why BSA does what they do regarding such topics as Uniforms, Websites, Swimming requirements, Joining Requirements, et al) Is it cool to go to sleep on the floor? (sure, sleep on the floor, but please no electric air mattresses and no females if the boys want it that way) Well, I don't think I can take anymore. (well I know I say that every three days or so, but I always come back) Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you. (With All my forum buddies, I mean after all we are here for the boys right?) Well, you started out with nothing, And youre proud that youre a self-made man. And your friends they all come crawlin, Slap you on the back and say, Please, please. (see above) Yeah, I dont know why I came here tonight, I got the feeling that something aint right, Im so scared in case I fall off my chair, And Im wondering how Ill get down the stairs, Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you. (see above) Yes Im, stuck in the middle with you, Stuck in the middle with you, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you. (With All my forum buddies, I mean after all we are here for the boys right?) and if ewe think eye forgot hour homophonophobics, aisle let ewe no eye didnt

So how much does it cost to join the Campfire Program and re-up that each year and buy a new uniform (?) or at the very least whats the cost of a scout uniform forever discarded and for this they would leave scouts? How much is registration for Little League, Soccer, etc? How much are your Union Dues, Professional Association Membership fees, etc. 10 bucks a year? A movie and popcorn and soda is at least that and probably more in most places. Our Camporee and Klondike fees are moer than that per scout per year. What am I missing?

I am not sure if anyone remembers the "Firesign Theatre", but I find an answer to the question "Why cant we all get along ?" in their immortal memory "I think we are all Bozo's on this bus"

How much are we talking here? 10%, 100%? Any idea how much?

Comments on a recent thread brought to mind this event. I love songs, there probably isnt a situation that you can think of that I cant come up with a theme song to match. Last year for our winter cabin campout I thought of something that I thought the scouts would like, I can do about 30 campfire songs without reading lyrics. But for our campfire I wanted to do something different. We had a lot of parents with us on this outing, one is an older retired Navy Chief, in fact Chief is his nickname and I dont actually know his first name. Well, it was getting late and he retired to his bunk. (or rack as he called it) After the kids had sung themselves out, I had the lights in the cabin turned off, and I sat in front of the huge stone fireplace that heats the cabin, (sleeps 40). I told them in a very low voice that I am from Illinois, that the mid-west actually has quite a sea-faring history, all the cargo that is carried across the Great Lakes, and I had a story about one of the ships. So with no lights and only my sihlouette against a dying fire I start reciting as dramatically as I can... The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down of the big lake they called "Gitche Gumee. "The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead when the skies of November turn gloomy. (Gordon Lightfoot's Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald) place is sone quiet, I dont think the kids had heard the song before, or they couldnt place it and were all totally enthralled. Just as I got to this part ...The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait when the Gales of November came slashin'. When afternoon came it was freezin' rain in the face of a hurricane west wind... The Old Chief who had long ago fallen asleep rolls on his back and starts to snore as loud as I think it is possible, one by one I can see the kids in the firelight start to smile, smirk and laugh. I got thorugh it ok, but somehow a poem about a boat sinking with the old Chief sawing logs in the background doesnt make for as dramatic a scene as I thought. Although it wasn't the memorable experience I had envisioned, every kid there talks about it and I guess thats the point, after all we are in the business of making memories, regardless of how the are remembers. The worst thing about it all, is that I snore worse than he does, so I couldnt say a word!(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Isn't Savannah the home town of Juliet Gordon Low founder of the American Girl Scout movement and one who turned down a marriage proposal from Lord Baden-Powell AND the setting of the best selling novel Modnight in the Garden of Good and Evil???

Benny, you asked for it: Hey kids, shake it loose together The spotlight's hitting something That's been known to change the weather We'll kill the fatted calf tonight So stick around You're gonna hear electric music Solid walls of sound Say, Candy and Ronnie, have you seen them yet But they're so spaced out, Bennie and the Jets Oh but they're weird and they're wonderful Oh Bennie she's really keen She's got electric boots a mohair suit You know I read it in a magazine Bennie and the Jets Hey kids, plug into the faithless Maybe they're blinded But Bennie makes them ageless We shall survive, let us take ourselves along Where we fight our parents out in the streets To find who's right and who's wrong Bennie and the Jets Now, if you really want to make the scouts heads explode, try reciting from memory around a campfire the lyrics to Blinded by the Light sung by Manfred Mann's Earth Band and written by the Boss, I was feeling kinda older with a boulder on my shoulder when I tripped over the merrry-go-round...

This topic reminds me of an old favorite song: Why can't we be friends Why can't we be friends Why can't we be friends Why can't we be friends I seen ya around for a long long time I really remember you when you drank my wine Why can't we be friends (Repeat 3 times) I'd seen ya walkin' down in Chinatown I called ya but you could not look around Why can't we be friends (Repeat 3 times) I pay my money to the welfare line I see ya standing in it every time Why can't we be friends (Repeat 3 times) The color of your skin don't matter to me As long as we can live in harmony Why can't we be friends (Repeat 3 times) I'd kinda' like to be the president So I could show you how your money's spent Why can't we be friends (Repeat 3 times) Sometimes I don't speak right But yet I know what I'm talking about Why can't we be friends (Repeat 3 times) I know you're working for the CIA They wouldn't have you in the mafia Why can't we be friends (Repeat 15 times)

I saw a version of this at Woodbadge. They used big stones, sand, and water. Had the same message and was very effective, this would be great

The worst thing about getting trained is you might find out what's comfortable for you, and what your unit does that you like, is not the BSA program (Mark me as one who knows) I joined the troop with my son, it was great, as a Veteran Eagle Scout I KNEW I knew it all and didnt need to be trained. Besides, I was in with a great bunch of adults who were very affable. We had lots of fun on our trips, setting up camp, cooking, cleaning, talking till the wee hours of the morning and getting the equipmnet stored back at the church's basement. I started the saying that we were really the Church's Trekking Club, this Boy Scout thing was just a front. All the leaders would laugh, agree and work with the boys on advancement. Unfortunately, I went to training. I learned it was probably not a good idea that the CC and SM chose the SPL and ASPL's and PL's and QM's etc. And that having the meetings program be merit badge classes wasnt as great an idea as I thought. I learned what it meant to be a boy lead troop and man oh man, we were not. (but the adults were having fun in a boy scout uniform) The good news side of it is we JUST recently actually elected a SPL and last night had the first troop reorganization run by the PLC. (our scoutmaster went to Philmont for Scoutmaster training, he got religion) The three new scout patrols were kept intact and went off to the new scout program. Then they placed 10 chairs in 5 groups in the meeting hall. The rules were (as set by the PLC). Each of the 5 new patrols had to have 3 members star or above and 3 who are first class or below. The rest of the patrol didnt matter. The boys were then free to go sit where they wanted, form a patrol AND elect a PL and select a APL. Its been a long time since there was that much excitement in a meeting. People actually talking about patrol activities, what a gas!

ASM1 and Bob have brought up opposing views that a scouter cant be a Unit Commisioner and a member of that troop. Could either of you provide documentation (my bets on Bob)on your position? The reason I ask is because for awhile I was Unit Commisioner AND an ASM for my sons troop. Now I am Unit COmmisioner AND a Committee member. I was approached four years (before I was traiend) ago by the District's Assistant Commisioner about being the Unit Commissioner and I thought, what the heck, I should help the troop and the District out. So if what I am doing is against the rules, please let me know.

Well, you could encourage those Webelos leaders to take the full set of training. Now with Outdoor skills,(One Weekend) and with WoodBadge (Two weekends)and maybe even Powder Horn (one week!)and anything else I forgot they can have all the fun they can handle pretending to be scouts without worrying where the kids are. And if they arent careful, they might just learn that the troop is supposed to be boy lead.