OldGreyEagle

Arrrgghhhh The curse of the double post!!(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I think the statement axes must be junior size is bogus. I would ask anyone who says that to prove it. Now, I agree that the 3/4 axe may suit some of the smaller/younger scouts. But is a scout can handle a regular axe, go for it.

A few years back on a back pack campout, I brought out my dinner. Pine nut Cous Cous and Spam. The Cous Cous are great all you do is add boiling water, mix in the flavor packet and you are done. I take the cous cous out of the box and bring them in double baggies. The best news is cous cous are not near as expensive as most dehydrated meals The kids were mildly interested in the cous cous but went wild over the spam. Everyone wanted a taste until I realized, hey this was my dinner. The kids had heard of spam, sang the Spam song but never had tasted it. Started a Spam craze. During the Outdoor Experience for Woodbadge, I suggested scrambled eggs and Spam. Went over great, especially since we used smoked flavored spam. I made some Spam converts on that trip. Besides whats not to like about Spam? I dont want to sound too much like Bubba from "Forrest Gump" You can eat Spam from the can, if you want to fry it, it provides its own oil/grease, you can deep fry it as was mentioned, you can scramble it with eggs, you can mix it with spaghetti, you can mix it in with mashed potatoes (instant of course) you never have to worry about cooking it long enough, you dont have to refrigerate it its the perfect food! Wait, no, Pizza is the perfect food, Pizza with Spam? Now thats sublime!! There is: Regular Spam Turkey Spam Sodium Reduced Spam Smoke Flavored Spam There is also Spam Lite, which is a reduced fat Spam product which I hold in the same comtempt as I do Fat-free Twinkies, both are crimes against God and nature. As a scout, my troop went to the Grand Canyon, trail lunches were Spam and crackers or PB&J and crackers. I love SPAM(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Actually I think I would have a lot of fun with anyone who would try to take me to task that one of my "square knots" were upside down, or reversed, or whatever(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

True Rooster, but I am not sure Australia is ready to join the "Axis of Evil" anytime soon, nor would I place them on the same watch list of human rights violator that China is/belongs on. Maybe some governments can use common sense, after all, people do get the government they deserve

When John the Baptist baptized Jesus, didn't the clouds part and a voice call out " this is my beloved son in who I am well pleased"? And when Jesus was 12 years old, and stayed in the temple while Joseph and Mary headed home, and when Joseph and Mary finally caught up with Jesus, he responded, "don't you know I am supposed to be about my father's business?" But what I want to know, is why is this important?

I think I will print and save this one for a reference, very comprehensive

A few thoughts: You mentioned its an urban troop, what are the demographics of the troop? How many scouts are from single parent families and how many kids are in each single parent family? How many two parent families are there and how many kids do those families have? The idea is to determine how many parents could help, then target those for recruitment or at least to help out a little. Who/What is the CO? Will they be involved with the troop, can your friend appeal for help from the church? Could they provide some leaders? I wish him and you well

Welcome Hippychik42, having seen posts similar to this one, I have a request. Can you provide more details and if possible some documentation of the incidents of which you speak, such as the newspaper that covered the public forums website?

Lets see, some totals: Uniform and parts for 7 years $120.00 Hiking Boots $75.00 Outdoor Clothing $100.00 21 merit badge book at 2 ea $42.00 Registration and Dues at 20.00 a year for 7 years $140.00 "Decent" sleeping bag $80.00 Tent $50.00 Misc Gear $100.00 Summer Camp at $275 a yr for $1675.00 6 years One High Adventure trip (At least one) $1000.00 Knowing you will always be an Eagle PRICELESS Sounds like a deal to me! (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ed, I believe hour collegue yaworski means by his comments of Yugo and Mercedes that to him Yugo means cutting things as close to the minimum and still do it. Only taking the easiest merit badges he can find for his electives and dedicating himself to finding the easiest merit badge counselors possible for all badges. The Yugo Eagle rarely challengers himself and always stays in his own comfort zone, and learns how to manipulate the system. The Mercedes Eagle does challenge himself and strives to improve himself by answering challenges and doing his dead level best, not just what will do. If I am wrong Yaworski, feel free to castigate me with extreme prejudice.

Oh littlebillie, I am in agreement with you, not attacking you. You were listing historical figures who were convicted of crimes and executed. I took this in reponse to Zorn's scathy remarks about basing a personal philosophy on a convicted and executed criminal. I took it you were lising other examples of convicted and executed people who most of us dont regard as a criminal. Of course, the English government saw William Wallace and Patrick Henry as bad guys. Just because a person is convicted, doesnt mean he did anything wrong is what I was trying to say, with the death row inmates as my proof. Sorry to confuse you(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Aw heck littlebilly, why not add the dozen or so convicted and on deathrow inmates in Illinois. They were convicted of a crime and were waiting for execution. I guess being convicted doesnt always mean you are guilty of anything

Rooster, I was in no way referencing anything you said or did. In the Pledge of Allegiance thread Zorn went after Merlyn Leroy quite aggressively. Zorn mentioned the bible and even quoted it. He exhorted Merlyn to get God in his life. The way he talked, it looked like he accepted the bible. Now, with his comments that does not appear to be so. So, the message to Zorn is, if you dont beleive in Jesus, who or on what do you base your personal philosophy on that includes the God of the bible, but not Jesus? I am puzzled by your mix of posts. I am not looking for a fight, just resolution to my own confusion.

Zorn, I am confused by your posts. Your previous posts leads me to beleive you suscribe to the God of the bible, you quoted the bible as well. Now you argue that the bible is full of inconsistencies and people who quote the bible are "bible thumpers". You say you do not base your personal philosophy on the supposed teachings of an executed criminal, yet when another poster asked how you resolved the words of "your Lord and Savior" on a topic, you answered the question with an exellent reply, but you did not deny that Jesus was your Lord and Savior. In fact, you used the name Jesus and said nothing about your position he was an executed criminal. You have implied you are indeed religious, but it appears you are on a real tear against Jesus, yet you seem to accept at least one part of the old testament. Could you expound on what is your personal philosophy, I may have completely misunderstood your posts, but then my reading comprehension isnt what it once was.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Youngblood, I never thought I was an expert on evolution, and by what I have seen in these threads, I know I was right. But I will answer your quesiton based on my limited understanding. I dont see evolution as a means to always make things (whatever they are) more complex. Evolution comes about as life adapts to environmental changes. At times that may make things more complex, but other times it may be that simpler is better. And a question to the more astute on this topic, what is the difference between natural selection and evolution? Remember you are dealing with a novice here, so be kind.

I dont think it fits and here is why: The goal for each troop should be that once a scout learns a skill the troops program provides ample opportunity for the boys to use that skill. He can teach other scouts the skill, he can participate in a patrol demonstration to the troop on this skill. On campouts and other troop activities he gets to tie knots, make lashings, use a compass, cook meals, he uses what he was taught and helps teach it as well. By the time a scout makes it past the Scoutmaster conference, there should be no doubt that the scout "knows his stuff". A troop whose program is oriented towards scouting (what a concept)will have scouts who know their skills. It is my opinion that troops who want to be sure the scouts "know their stuff" by the grilling of the scout at a BOR or a preliminary BOR are not showing confidence in the scout skills portion of their program and have to use these tactics to be sure. I would rather see a troop try to improve the scouting skills content of its program than devise ways to test the scout on his skills. Wait a minute, if they improve the scout skills portion of the program, they wont have to retest, because everyone is confident the scouts "know their stuff" Another way to look at it is the "boy board" isn't just held at advancement time, but is ongoing. The constiuents of the described boy board (ASPL, Patrol Guides, Instructors, oh heck, lets just say the PLC) are constantly teaching and and designing activities/meetings which have scouting skills as the core. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I agree Rooster, politcs and religion are good healthy subjects of debate until somebody starts calling another a filthy infidel, or bloody heathen, or whacked out pagan or some other invective laced vituperative epithet (no, not the things on the uniform shoulders)

Acco40, WoodBadge beads only for special occasions? Are you sure? I see them on a lot of people anytime they wear the uniform. It could mean a lot of people are wrong as well though. Where did you hear/see that?

A few quesitons, You said it takes 5 hours for you to make one, how long have you been doing this? Do you estimate it would take a neophet 50% longer? Twice as long? if it takes 5 hours, thats one hour a day, anything longer maybe a stretch to complete. Then again, could you offer the do it yourself kit and sell the finished product as well? I think after they see what the raw materials look like and what they have to do, the finished product may not seem as pricey as all that

I think the most important physical skill a scout can have is the ability to stay "found". He can read a map, work a compass, knows landmarks that tell him when he is off track. Knows how to make a fire and a shelter and knows that staying put is the smartest thing he can do when he is a bit bewildered.

Throw them out, they are nothing but trouble... In no special order of importance: 1. "Loud persuassion" is not one of the 11 points that JLTC teaches and the junior leader was wrong to have used that method, HOWEVER, if indeed the scout has a history of shirking responsibility, I can understand the response. My counseling of the Patrol Leader would be on the lines of, "You know, yelling/shouting/whatever really isn't the best method going to address the situation" then the scout says something like yes I know, but I am getting frustrated" and I say "I know, it bugs me too, but you shouldnt have done that." case closed, no more talking about that subject. 2. The offending scout needs to have a session with the SPL and perhaps ASM of the patrol present if it is felt necessary about responsibilty and the need for all scouts to do their share. 3. One mother needs to have the effects of mildew and mold on tent life explained as well as the cost of tentage. The mother who has given permission concerning physical violence in response to harsh or loud words needs to know the troop policy on physical violence and what actions that might bring about. Maybe the junior leader should not have done what he did, but one error doenst diminish the fact the little darling didnt do his job either and between the two "failings" I rate the wet tent much higher than the loud response, unless the loud response was way over board over the top, ect. But even if it was, the fact the tents came back wet cant be overlooked.

In the limited exposure I have had with Girl Scouts though the Venture Crew, Girl Scouts are expected to provide leadership to the younger groups of scouts. it would be like saying, Ok, Webelos you help this Tiger Den, Ok Boy Scouts help this Cub Pack. Being a Den Chief is one of many Positions of responsibility a boy scout may have to advance, in Girl Scouts the girl will help with the younger scouts or she wont advance.

So we are saying the most important thing for a scout to learn is Character, Citizenship, and a repect for his body to develop it as far as he is able? I like it

Rooster, I want to be sure I understand you as I have misinterpreted you in the past, when you say "Life is about choices. Even children make them." What choices do you mean? I have to admit when I first read that the inclination to do wrong was not taught but inborn, the first thing I thought of was how does that reconcile with free will. Then, you took care of that by saying we have an ability to learn/determine our own behavior, which I agree with. The issue is the duality of man, man can be very noble and then he can be exceedingly base, its our individual choice. Perhaps also we should define what we mean by "children", a child of 11-12 is a lot different that one of 16-17 (actually at 16 I am not sure child is applicable) I think the reactions of those who responded to Zorn's initial post was based on the flat global statement that children arent precious. To a group of people who voluntarily spend a lot of time with children, what type of response would you expect, if it was a visceral reaction it should be. This gets back to the "throw him out of the troop" argument that pops up from time to time. I think some scouters tend to give up much faster on a scout than they should. Just because a scout is a challenege to work with, or doesnt behave the way we want is not reason to say "well, heck, that one ain't worth the effort" Thats just my opinion Now, when you take a much more dispassionate view, there are some who arguably could fit into the dunghill category: The Shooters in Jonesboro, Ark Kleibold and Harris at Columbine The Shooter in Washingotn State The Shooter in Paducah, Ky The Nazi Parent killers of Salisbury Township, Pa Thats just what I could think of right now. If this is the category you and Zorn mean, I have to say I agree. If it also includes a kid who cant stand still when the sign is up, or is disruptive during a meeting, (to a minor degree, not halting it) then no I dont. I would like to get your scope of who or what type of behavior qualifies for the dunghill. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)