OldGreyEagle

I must be losing whatever ability I had to communicate. I am not saying my father was a bad guy. He was/is a wonderful father and caring grandfather. As a boy who grew up in rural depression Maine, literally walking 3 miles to school (however only going home was uphill) drafted in the Marines out of High School and made DI, married my mother and made quite a nice living for his wife and 4 children, he did better than alright. I just disagree that spanking, or whiping my behind with a leather belt, was the most effective method of discipline. Thats all I am saying. We can move on, I have.

I didnt make myself clear. I meant troop positions, not Star, Life, Eagle, Rank. In our troop the SPL and ASPL are assigned to eat with a different patrol each meal similar to the way the adults eat.

How do I know what made me what I am, was it my father's discipline or his love, or both? Was it my mothers love or my sibling relationships? Was it becomming an Eagle Boy Scout or being the first boy in my class to serve mass because I learned the latin prayers first (told you I was old)I dont know. I also dont know how many nights I lie awake in my bed swearing to myself with tears in my eyes that when I had children, I would not slap, spank, beat, whatever them . My youngest brother had his share of spankings/beltings as well, he has three girls all doing quite well, and he never spanked them either, we talked about it and agreed we didnt see the point. Had a friend across the street, mother used to whale on him all the time for anything he did wrong. He left home at 18 and did everything he could to embarrras his parents and he would laugh and say "hey , the old lady cant touch me now." Never amounted to anything because he was so wrapped up in doing wrong and not getting beat, his life passed him by.

In just a few short entries we have gone from a few slaps on the butt to using a belt. I understand its all opinion and personal feelings and I respect that. When I read your entry KW, I smiled, my father was a Marine as well. A DI at Cherry Point during WWII. He kept his old Dress Uniform belt (about 4 inches wide, or so I thought) hanging in the garage as a silent reminder of who was boss and what would happen if you crossed the boss. 13 years of Catholic School education replete with kneeling on my knuckles and holding soup cans in both hands with arms fully extended for 5 minutes while I worried about what was going to happen when I got home taught me very little. Now, my parents were married 50 years before my mother passed away and no more dedicated husband could any woman have had, especially in her last years when multiple strokes changed her ability to do much of anything. He was only doing what he thought was right, I understand that. And while I do not agree with spanking, in no way does that mean I am against discipline. I understand what you mean about a child learning about loss and failure. I would also add taking responsibility for your actions as well, this concept seems quite foreign to many. Scoutparent is justifiably proud of her son, I am proud of my son, the Eagle Scout, whom many people say is the most polite well mannered, well behaved young man they know. Scoutparent spanked, I/we (my wife did contribute as well) didnot. But we did teach responsibility for actions. Many paths to the same end I guess.

I would keep them separate. If the SPL and ASPL are in a patrol, they and the patrol leader will find many awkward positions. As a patrol member they are subordinate to the Patrol Leader, whom they outrank in the troop. I like the idea of the Leadership Patrol, you may consider adding Quartermasters to it as well

I never heard those things about Margaret Sanger, are they documented anywhere?

All spanking does is teach children that physical violence is Ok when you are bigger and stronger than your victim. Your son may be a model human being, but its inpsite of, rather than because of, spankings. Of course thats just my opinion My comment on pornography comes from the fact that when pedophiles are arrested, its almost always reported the authorities found kiddie porn in his residence. When a rapist is arrested, I havent heard that pornography was found. Interesting how its reported (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

A few things to check out Ask if they have an activity calender, check out the activities listed, is your son interested in the trips. Ask to see a few calenders from years past, how active is the troop, is it what your son wants to do. Does the troop have an attendance policy, that is, is there a set number of meetings/activities that have to be attended? Not all troops have these (they are against BSA policy, but thats not always followed) and if your son has other committments, this will be important. Does your son have friends whose brothers are in any troops, do the kids like the troop, are the brothers the kind of kids you want your son around? Does the Scoutmaster have time to talk to you, ask him if hes trained, ask how many of the leaders/committee are trained. I am sure you will get plenty more advice, this is to get you started

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KS, I know what you mean about the pedophiles seemingly always have a truck load of kiddie porn. I would like to know if serial rapists also always have porn. As far as a few kids needing a whack so they dont ruin other peoples times, I think that is an excllent idea. I think a few wives probably need a few whacks as well so they learn their place and if their husbands are'nt man enough to do it, then society should form discipline patrols who will go around and give a few whacks to all of those who deserve it, man, woman or child. BTW, I will be the Chairman of deciding who gets whacked.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Before this becomes another 10-15 page discussion/argument over Homosexuality and what God said and what he meant and whose God is right and all, lets reflect on one thing: Jesus calls the children dear, Come to me and never fear, For I love the little children of the world; I will take you by the hand, Lead you to the better land, For I love the little children of the world. Refrain: Jesus loves the little children, All the children of the world. Red and yellow, black and white, All are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world. Jesus is the Shepherd true, And Hell always stand by you, For He loves the little children of the world; Hes a Savior great and strong, And Hell shield you from the wrong, For He loves the little children of the world. Refrain I am coming, Lord, to Thee, And Your soldier I will be, For You love the little children of the world; And Your cross Ill always bear, And for You Ill do and dare, For You love the little children of the world. Refrain Let the games (And requisite condemnations begin)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

You know, I could start positng news stories of men (over 21) who have sex with young girls (under 21) that have met on the internet and I dont think it would prove to anyone that having hetersexual men invovled in coed Venture Crews is a bad idea.

Background checks are not supposed to be a panacea, they will not prevent these types of incidents. Background checks are to find out that the new assistant scoutmaster applicant who just moved to town was convicted of child molestation in the state five over from you. Background checks will be part of the Youth Proctection Program, it's not supposed to be the entire program.

Eisely, you were here when I started

It is my undestanding the CO owns the equipment and the troop cannot dictate who can or cannot use it. That being said, I think the COR and the Venture Advisor and Scoutmaster need a face to face to go over what is involved when equipment is used. We had a similar situation with the Venture Crew and Troop chartered from the same CO. The Troop (scouts) didnt "like" the crew using "their" stuff. But our COR and Scoutmaster researched it and said it was technically the CO's property. However, when the Venture Crew used the equipment, the Crew made sure the stuff was returned in better shape then it was when we received it. Leaving things better than you found them goes for "stuff" as well as a campground.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Does anybody know where I can find one?

Does anybody know where I can find one?

Specifically the Roman Catholic Church teaches: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation." Now, this covers people who have never heard of Jesus, whether they lived at the wrong time (anytime BC) or in the wrong part of the world when Christianity was developing. But for this discussion, could it also cover those who have heard and dont beleive, but strive to be the best person they can. My brother was sexually seduced by a priest. He can not bear the thought of walking in any church. He tries to be a good person, is he damned because he doesnt accept Jesus because of his experiences? I say no because he doesnt know the church for what it is, just the perverse action of one so-called member. The same priest molested me, I can see he is not a part of the church, but its not in my brothers psyche to arrive at the same conclusion. I am not sure its up to us to decide who is saved and who isnt OGE Matt 7; 1-5(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Check out "Background checks for volunteers"

Gee, I claim 13 years of Roman Catholic educaiton and I remember in Elementary School doing the May pole thing every yearon May 1. In the Roman Catholic church the month of May is dedicated to Mary. I didnt know the May pole had other meanings. We went around the Pole, sang songs in praise of Mary and saw her life as a role model for ours.

The orgination of the dates of Easter and Christmas (the two most holy days of the christian year) has always intrigued me. The two major theories that I have heard are*: 1. Best Place to Hide a Leaf is in a Forest Early christians were a very much persecuted lot. In many areas christians caught worshipping were immediately executed or kept around for Lion fodder. To blend in to the local culture, the holiest of feasts Easter, began to be celebrated in the Spring while non-christians were celebrating the rebirth of the earth. After awhile the pagan religions fell away but christianity held on. 2. If you cant beat them join them If humanity has one common trait, its we love to party (have a good time, feast, whatever). Early church officials were faced with trying to convert a populace that a had a slate of holidays in the old religion while they had none. It was natural to have the new faith's religion align its celebrations with the cultural calender. In the Anglo-Saxon tradition the time around the winter solstice was generally a time of rest, after all in an agrarian economy who can get much done when its dark and cold? The Lords of the Manors developed a tradition of giving a "holiday" at this time as long as a single log burned. This was the Yule log, and the biggest, thickest log was very much desired. It was natural to place Christmas, the celebration of Jesus's birth in this spot, as Easter (the reserection) was already spoken for. All Saints Day (November 1) is another example of a holy day set because of another religion (Druids) Is it important we know the exact date of Jesus's birth and reserection? I dont think so, its so much more important to honor the values, the way of life and afterlife he brought to us. Is it bad christians co-opted pagan holidays? I dont think so, it was a way of survival any way you look at it. But let me be amoung the first to say Happy Holidays and remember The Reason for the Season * I make no claim to historical accuracy, only hearsay

Merlyn, I should have completed my thought, that should have read "who has 2 days in the pool until merlyn leroy appears cause you are gonna lose" And merl, no offense but I have a very hard time reading court decisions and understanding them, the results of borderline ADD as a child and residual effects today. Legalese all reads like stereo instructions, or stereo instructions read like a court decision, you pick'em.

Here goes: Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Now, as I understand things the phrase "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" has been interpreted as no government money should go to any religion because governmental support could be seen as approval of that religion over another. If the Christams Creche costs the township $5,000 and the Hanukkah Light display costs the township $2,500 and nothing is spent on Ramadan there are those who say this is the township implying Christianity is worth twice as much as Judiasm and the Muslim faith is worthless. Now the Muslims in the township could petition and perhaps get some kind of display, but some Atheists sit back and say why should any money go to celebrating the notions of any religion when the schools need books, the roads need to be repaired and the police cars upgraded. An Atheist may claim that looking at a display, funded by a governmental unit, prohibits him from exercising his right to practice his belief of non-belief. He may have to look at commercial and private displays, but public money spent on this God stuff drives him crazy. Putting the ten commandments in a courthouse without any mention of the tenets of other religions may imply that the governmental unit only "approves" of the ten commandments and the other tenets are not worthy of display. And of course, even if all religions were posted in the courthouse, the Atheists would say by having all these relgions tenets posted here, the government is condoning religion, something its not supposed to do. (dont shoot me, I am only the piano player) What I dont understand is how "...no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" came to mean all that I just wrote. If a governmental unit passed a law that only Baptists could be mayor, that only Methodists could be policemen and you had to be Jewish to be a fireman, then I could understand. The amendment says "... No law..." What law is created if a governmental unit puts up a Creche, and Hannukah and Ramadan displays. I thought a law was something either you had to do, or something you couldnt do. Having Boy Scouts get free mooring in a marina because they gave rocks for fill is not a law, its a tit for tat, payment for services/goods rendered, how does a law figure in the mix? Allowing Boy Scouts, or any private organization, to set its own membership requirements doesnt create a governmental unit law does it? OGE Matt 22:37-39 (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

First things first, who has 2 days in the pool until merlyn leroy enters the fray? next, I wonder why Mr Newdow didnt include military chaplains as well.

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