OldGreyEagle

Not to argue semantics (as I would never want to appear anti-semantical) but the answer to the question, "How do we encourage boys to wear the full uniform with pride? " answers itself. When a boy is proud to be a Boy Scout, he will wear his uniform with pride. The question is, how do we instill pride in our scouts? So many times I hear from the boys that other kids consider the Boy Scout uniform "gay" and what Boy Scouts do as "sissy" (the irony is sublime). Adults can wear the most complete of uniforms, but until the boys see that being a boy scout is respected by their peers, getting them to wear the uniform will be difficult. So, along with how do we encourage the boys to wear the uniform with pride, how do we get them to be proud of being scouts, or perhaps, keep them proud of being a scout? When I think of the whitewater rafting, canoeing, hiking, orienteering our troop does, I cant conceive of how that is considered sissy, but then again, I think like an adult. I know we have scout members of the forum, help us old geezers out, what do we do?

From Eastern Pennsylvania to Western Pennsylvania, The Minsi Trails Council of the Lehigh Valley extends its wishes for a speedy and complete recovery. Our best prayers and wishes are with you

"Rooster we are simply going to disagree on this. You would defend BSA over anything." So, Rooster, Congrats, you have just been accused of morphing into Bob White, how does that make you feel? NJ, if you can remember the 60's, obviously you didnt do them right...(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Pfann, This is something I am certain of, The charactor of Emily Litella started the phrase "Never Mind" Emily was on SNL news and would rant on something she misunderstood, the classic was "whats all this I hear about endangered feces" until Chevy Chase would correct her and say "thats endangered species" to which she would say, "thats something different altogether, nevermind" RosanneRosanne A Dan was also featured on SNL News, she would read letters from "viewers" always a Mr Richard Fahter from New Jersey and she would always say, "you ask a lot of quesitons for somebody from New Jersey" I may be wrong about a lot of things, but this I know

Littlebillie, Sorry, still confused, what do you mean?

I am not sure how to ask this, I have started to post this question a few times, but eaxh time backed off, as I didnt want to look silly or foolish (imagine that). But I must be missing something. I might be mistaken, but the issue is one of leadership, right? I mean, to take examples from the original post, a republican has every right to run for the presidency of the democratic club. I just dont think there is a snowballs' chance in August in Death Valley for a victory. The same with the other groups, sure people with completlety opposite views CAN run for leadership positions, but the group has to elect them right? And the ability to vote on leadership isnt at risk here is it? If an Atheist wanted to be a leader in a Christian, Jewish organization, I dont see why they couldnt run for office and I dont see why the electorate wouldnt laugh them out of the group. W What am I missing?

Gilda was Emily Littela and Lisa Grubner "oh Todd, thats so funny I forgot to laugh" and the little girl that jumped on her bed, I forgot her name. Unfortunately, as we all know ovarian cancer took her way to young, Lorraine Newman most famous charactor was Connie Conehead, "We come from France" (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Our "junk" weekend just about every year is a day at Knoebls Groce in Ely PA. The kids spend a day in a nice little theme park with all attractions "free" due to its being "scout day" and they have a colored wirst band. The kids love it because they dont have to do much. Of course, quite a few pass cooking requirements and others will identify plants and a few go off in search of animal signs. Shhh dont tell them they are 'working"

There should have been an alternate activity, nothing will kill a scouts spirit faster than doing what it appears is being done.

Ed, When I did the outdoor experience for the new WoodBadge Course, we had a female member of our patrol and she slept in her own tent in our campsite. Being from a troop that doesnt exclude Moms from overnight camping, I never gave it a second thought and neither did the rest of the patrol. For that matter, during the first weekend (we did two 3 day weekends) All the patrols were in separate campsites in wall tents with cots. Our Lady Bear was in her tent, I in mine and so on. Never once did anyone mention anything along the lines if she should have been there. Its not part of the new WoodBadge to sepatate the sexes. I respect religious beliefs that wish to do so, but its not part of the program, only a local modification

Littlebillie, I apologize for my comments, I got way to carried away, was trying to make a point and I think I totally obscured anything positive I was tring to do. KWC, how can you compare the BSA to the KKK!!!! .....what? didnt we just go down this path... oh you were just using an analogy? never mind Emily Litella

"THERE lies Caesar. And of course I'm talking our good ol' AMERICAN Caesars. Hitler, for crying out loud? What did HE have to do with the Boy Scouts of AMERICA?" I didnt know we were to assume only American topics here, OZEMU, I guess littlebillie doesnt want to hear about scouting down'under. I do however,

This is the direction I was hoping my thread of "God OR Country" would go last summer. While life in a conquered Roman region may have not been great, it was not a total dictatoship either. The people of Jerusalem had King Herrod providing local governance on a limited jurisdicition and even Pilate deferred to local custom when he wanted to sprare the life of Jesus. What if a government asks you to betray a religious principle, notably Thou Shalt Not Kill? Where does the duty to God and Country diverge? Did Jesus mean only obey a legitimate goverment and who determines legitimacy. Did the American Revolutionaries do right by not only not rendering to Caesar, but by throwing him out of their lives?

Just to take this a little more off topic, what if Caesar (Government) is Hitler, Idi Amin, Papa Doc, etc.? What about the old USSR and modern China?

A collection of ramblings and musings, hopefully most on topic: A winter cabin campout where you watched movies? Hopefully at least "Follow Me Boys" was shown to remind attendees they were at a scouting function. I can almost see showing movies, like "Castaway" every 5 minutes or so you can stop the movie and ask what survival skills Tom Hanks used and what he could have done better (hint, use the Mag lite lens to start the fire, use the life raft to collect drinking water and as a waterproof roof, etc) When the PLC plans the program, is it with a theme and is the theme related to scouting? You can be boy led, but adults still give a sense of direction. Establish parameters for meals, require the food groups are all represented at least once a day, twice? Start giving a ribbon, a dangle, something for the patrol flag each outing for the patrol that has the best meals. How are advancements going? It would appear not much is happening in that area. Why not ask the PLC what advancement topics members of their patrol need? Then ask them how these topics could be best met. You should get an advancement skills week-end out of that. Have the PLC describe the type of adventures they would like to have, and see if you can make a few happen. There will be the references to climbing Mt Everest, but you could substitute indoor rock climbing. Another tactic is to suggest the PLC "poll" the boys in the troop, have each patrol leader ask each boy in his patrol what he wants to do. You should get many good "new" ideas, and may uncover a heretofore unknown resource, a dad who takes his son caving, flyfishing, outdoor climbing, etc. Our troop struggles with the concept of boy led as well. Our troop, through a Woodbadge ticket item, (not mine) is trying to develop a "mentoring program" Each office, such as Senior Patrol Leader, Quartermasters, has an adult assigned to them. These Mentors have a checklist they share with the boy. Before outings, the Mentor contacts the boy to remind him of what needs to be done, NOTE, not do it for the boy, remind him it needs to be done. How much assistance does an older boy get from adults when he teaches? Do adults back him up to assure he is getting the respect and attention he deserves? Is his class size to big? Has he been taught how to teach? When its over, do the adults recognize his efforts? Was he given adequate preparation time? At the end of every outing, have the Senior Patrol Leader (or acting Senior Patrol Leader)lead a reflection on the activity, (right after policing the area and before we break for the vehicles) what was fun, what worked well, what could be improved, have the scribe (or acting scribe) take notes and bring them to the next PLC meeting. When planning the next activity go over those reflections, what worked well, what didnt work well. If you start with your next activity, in very short order the boys themselves will have produced quite a list to provide guidance in planning activities. Hope this helps, or at least sparks an idea or two (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ksane, What do you want to know about the BSA? Maybe we can help, or maybe we cant, but ask and we will see what responses you get

I understand where you all are comming from, Boy Scouts should be responsible for themselves. I just have a few questions. Lets say you have a scout who is, for lack of a better term "disorganized" may he is ADD, maybe he isnt. And he hasnt been on a troop outing for months and is falling behind in advancements because he isnt making events because he keeps forgetting/losing the permission slip. When do you step in, or do you ever?

Dont use BSA and KKK in a post and then say you are not trying to compare the two of them. And if you werent comparing them, then why not tell littlebillie that when he states your comparison is "accurate and understandable" that you didnt mean to compare the two lets see, if I was a judge, I cant handle cases against gays and atheists because I am an Eagle scout so I have to be biased, I am a practicing Roman Catholic so all you "fallen-away" catholics cant possibly get a fair shake from me, as well as Methodists, Baptists or the Jews. Thats it, If I ever get in legal trouble I will claim to be a Vegan Wiccan/Druid with Buddist tendency and then call that only a like minded individual may judge me, and I want a trial by a jury of my peers, lets see if we can find 12, actually more people of the same persuasion. In that line of thinking Males cant judge females or females males. What happended to evaluation a person on the job he/she does, not on their past or theoretical bias that "could" happen.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

NO NO NO The KKK analogy is not accurate and is not understandable, The BSA does not print literature denouncing gays as subhumans, the BSA has never burned a Fler-de-Lis on a gay persons lawn, and the BSA has never said it wanted to dominate politics. If you are going to say gays belong in the BSA do it with logical arguments, and not by feeble attmepts at fear and hate mongering!!!

Holy Cow, Robin Beefed... I know all analogies limp, but to even remotely compare the BSA with the KKK goes beyond any quantum leap of logic that I can comprehend. The KKK preaches hate, the BSA teaches tolerance and acceptance. The KKK wants to dominate, the BSA wants to peacefully co-exist. I think comparing the KKK to the BSA goes beyond going over the top

Our troop takes multiple walkies with us on events especially hikes to keep in communication. I realize B-P didnt have walkies, then again, he didnt have Gore-tex shells, fleece vests, Polyester/whatever tents or windproof back packing stoves. He didnt have GPS, or Cellphones but I think if they were available, he would think very little of scoutmasters who didnt use available technlogy (just my guess)

Its Ok Hops, you are free to be frustrated with the uniform and are allowed to disparage it all you want. (I know I do) With all the words in the langauge to describe your irritation, we dont need to resort to scatological references. BTW, Welcome to the Forum and about where in So Illinois? I have lived in Carbondale and Alton and traveled extensively through the area

See, now I am in a quandry, If I dont say anything about the use of the word "crap" a decidedy vulgar word, it looks like I endorse its use. If I say that use of that word offends me, some may claim my name should be OldGreyFuddyDuddy. Then again in a few days someone may question why this words use did not generate a rebuke, so hops, if you can, please refrain from use of this word in the future and I wont have to worry about it.

From the BSA website, G2SS Life-Threatening Communicable Diseases Local Scouting units and their chartered organizations traditionally determine their own membership, absent any legal constraints. Accordingly, units and sponsoring institutions should determine the feasibility or desirability of allowing youth or adult members who have or are suspected of having a life-threatening communicable disease to participate in Scouting activities. A youth member who is unable to attend meetings may continue to pursue Scouting through the Lone Scout program. AND Religious Beliefs and Medical Care The following is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America regarding medical requirements: Medical examinations for camp attendance are required of all campers for the protection of the entire camp group. The immunization requirement is waived for persons with religious beliefs against immunization. All Scouts and Scout leaders need to learn first aid, not for their own use, but for service to others who may require it. A Scout or leader may ask to be excused from first-aid instruction, but no advancement requirement will be waived except as indicated. Requirements 1 and 5 for the Personal Fitness merit badge call for examinations by a physician and a dentist with appropriate follow-up recommendations. This may be set aside on presentation of a certificate by the Scout's parents and a proper church official that a definite violation of religious conviction is involved. So, while the Policy on Deadly Communicable drugs is spelled out, in the G2SS, I agree with NJ, its often not talked about, ok, I have never heard it until this thread. And more grist for the mill. What about a strict Christian Science family? No Doctors means no Physicals which means a scout/scouter could have a deadly disease and never have it diagnosed. Now, does the right of the scout/scouter to follow his beliefs over rule the need of the troop to know if he has a severe medical condition? BTW, I didnt find a section on handling personal information, it could be there, but I havent found it(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I am asking if federal mandated privacy laws can be ignored based on the feelings that the troop oughta know. at what point do we ignore federal laws because we know we are right and the law is wrong? BTW, just checked the Boy Scout handbook, has a good section about handling blood.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)