OldGreyEagle

I think he has proven himself to be an intelligient critical self-motivated indivdual, more Bear than anything else, however, if he takes Woodbadge, I dont care even if he ends up a Bob White

Let me be the first one to say Congrats, you wont regret it, I used to be a bear, and a good'ol bear too...

As far as I know, as far as the BSA is concerned the only thing a parent cant do is sit on a son's Board of Review for any rank. Other than that, its open.

So, the Scout Law doesnt have anything to do with scouting?

A scout is Trustworhty, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent

I am not sure Woodbadge is the answer, I would only do it if I wanted to be the best leader I could be, I would only do if if I wanted to meet a whole lot of people who think the same way I do, I would only do it if I wanted to accomplish measureable tasks that are designed to improve my unit/district/council etc. AND finally I would only do it if I wanted others to know that I am serious about this scouting stuff

Hey, Watch that Wizard of Oz stuff, although Judy Garland is an icon of a certain population as is her daughter Liza. Maybe it was part of the Left Wing Liberal agenda started in the late 40's to destroy traditional family values and allow accpetance of perversion as "normal"?

"What is left if not for hatred, prejudice, condemnation, and fear?" Sorry Packsaddle, and to think we have been bonding recently but I cant let that go unanswered. You are going to have to show me where the Boy Scouts policy on homosexual leaders gets into hatred, prejudice (well maybe this one condemnation and fear (ok this one as well). I dont remember anyone representing Boy Scouts say we HATE and CONDEMN homosexuals, only that avowed homosexuals are not appropriate role models. That may show prejudice and may contain fear, but not hate or condemnation.

Yes Bob, it does make sense, I understand the allure of space, but perhaps if all the presidents and rulers of the world had to attend the funerals or memorial services of slain soldiers and face their families, we may be a more peaceful planet. Lets not forget our Astronauts, or anyone else who dies in the service of our country

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I know this sounds treasonous, but I have to express this thought and get reaction. Why are we making such a big deal about these 7 astronauts? Last week a Blackhawk helicoptor went down in Afghanistan kiling the 4 member crew, why did we not see these men on TV, get a personal resume on each of them such as the astronauts. Were these 4 men any less important to our country? I am not sure what the death toll in Afghanistan is right now, but I know its over 7. Make no mistake, I admire the astronauts, it takes great courage to do what they do. They expected to be home on saturday. They were to follow in the path that has been traveled before without a problem. Every day in Afghanistan our soldiers wake up not certain they will be sleeping or dead in the evening. If/when we invade Iraq there will be causalities, many more than 7 and those who will compose the invasion force will know not all will be comming home alive. I guess my point, and I have made it in a rather clumsy manner is while we should regard the Columbia Crew as heroes, lets not forget the armed forces who stand ready, knowing they WILL lose soldiers and those who have already paid the ultimate sacrifice.

Throw out the divorced leaders cuz they arent good role models??? Well this will test Roosters resolve, Does that mean that Ronald Reagan, the first American President who was divorced was/is not a role model? Gives one pause to think about how much we can judge another person before we step off the edge.

You are right KS, BSA's reason for not accepting avowed Homosexual's is because of the role model issue. I understand that. I agree as a private Organization we have the right to make that choice. I only wanted to point out that Homosexual does not equal Pedophile. A sexual predator cant be classified as gay or straight, only pedephiliac. I didnt mean to imply anything else.

Hi again Bryan, Used to live in Bloomington, worked for St Joeseph's Hospital Medical Center owned by the Sisters of the Third of St Francis centered there in Peoria. The forum has heard about the statistics you cite,(I think), we have seen a whole bunch thats for sure. What I find interesting is in the whole time I have been a member of this forum, since September 3, 2000, the gay issue has been discussed up one tree and down another. Statistics have been cited and cussed and discussed as flawed because of who gathred the data or antiquated because of the time period when the data was collected. I am not sure I have seen anyone change their mind because of anything stated here. So, we can launch again into what the bible says, then counter with is the bible relevant because not all scouts view the bible the same way you do. A bible quote will do little to convince a Hindu that you are right. And do the look at nature bit except this time Rooster wont answer (or will he?) but assuredly some one will. The one observation I do have relating to this issue is that while a member of this fourm, I have seen multiple news stories that tell of Scouters sexaually molesting scouts. As far as I can remember, and members here will let me know if I am wrong, all these alleged perpetrators were married with children. I cannot think of one time that a newspaper account posted here told of a scouter who was accused of sexaully molesting a scout and it turned out that the scouter was an active homosexual who kept his sexual preferences secret form the troop as did Dale does TJ. And I have no doubt that if an active homosexual scouter(such as TJ,) was ever arrested for sexaully molesting a scout, it would be on this forum. But thats not the history. The men arrested are all desribed as fine family men. If national is spending 50 thou a month on lawsuits and damage payments, my experience is that its the non-gays causing the problems. I am not so naive to think there are no more than a handful of homosexual scotuers, but if their track record is supposed to be so horrible, how come they are not in the paper? And what about Nana's Czarnina, is eating it wrong?

The South Mountain District of the Minsi Trails Council did a Webelos night. There wasnt an overall presentation, it was billed as an open house. The Council sent a post card with date, time and location to all Webelos in the District. It was held on a Rountable night and location and every troop got a banguet table in a large hall. Troops brought information sheets on troop meetings and schedules, the historians had their picture albums and posters of trips. A few troops had laptop computers with slide programs. The troops are arranged by township/geographical location and the Families are free to wander where they will. Its been done two years in a row and we are planning a third.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Packsaddle, Unfortunatley both Grandmother and mother are currently making czarnina and kielbasa for the celestial hosts, but memories of the duck cage that would be on Grandma's porch from the friday after Thanksgiving until Christmas Eve and the steaming bowl of soup served with Christmas Dinner is still very strong.

Packsaddle, In the old days, (not quite Brownsea island, but before cable TV and the uber prescence of TV remotes) when I was a scout, what you are planning was called a "Sidewalk Campout". Our Council did it annually, I have a few patches from the ones I attended. We camped on the little league field in the center of town and used the facilities of the gas station across the street. We set up camp, would make a monkey bridge and tower and cook and let the public watch us. Wouldnt be bad if a Council or District could co-ordinate that in fall, at back to school time with school night the following week. I suppose a naitonal event would be too unwieldy, wouldnt it?

So that medium rare prime rib is off limits? Or my grandmother's Czarnina? Not picking, I just want to be sure I understood you and welcome to the fourm (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I almost posted this in response to Twocubdad's post in the Unit Commisioning thread, but to keep what is a good thread untainted by asides, lets try this. The comment concerns recruitment, I think Twocubdad references its easier to have bigger units attend multiple school nights than it is for some smaller units to attend one school and so the bigger ones flourish while the smaller ones continue to struggle. And that families should be directed to smaller units, I disagree (I may have misunderstood what was said, if so I apologize) I think the best recruitment strategy, and along with that I guess retention strategy starts with an active and varied program. Our troop went skiing this weekend and I got a chance to talk to a new parent. Her son is a recent transfer, her original troop was very outdoors minded, their first scheduled activity was a ten mile hike, and two weeks later a 25 mile bike hike and two weeks later a back backing along the Applachian Trail. All great outings, but a little daunting to the new 11 year old scouts. When the Scoutmaster was approached by the new scout parents who were requesting some less extreme events so the new scouts could build up to the troop's schedule, the answer was, "absolutley not, this is the way I've done it for 18 years". Well, we got 3 scout transfers from that troop. (I guess the concept of a First Year Program was to foriegn to even talk about) Their original troop has been a traditionally smaller troop and it appears with continue to be for quite awhile regardless of how many scouts are referred to them We ski, we have swim nights at the local high school, we have 10 mile hikes, we have back packing trips, we do white water rafting, we have a group going to the Boundry Waters this summer, we have winter cabin campouts where we (I use the term loosely) sled/tobbagan all week end. We schedule at least one overnight a month with some other day activity during the month. We have an eclectic schedule. We dont require a certain percentage of attendance at meeting or events, but continually affirm that the way to advance is to attend events. When I started with the troop with my son the troop had 18 scouts, its now at 76 (was up to 90). What has worked for other troops? What are your strategies for recruitment and retention?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

What would I have done? Not much different than what I did, stayed with the program and helped to deliver the promise.

Hey, you can take electronics on my campouts, unless that PDA also has a TV card in which case "Will and Grace" has to be blacked out. Electronics are not for amusement, serious work only!!!

It reminds me of a quote I heard in Grad School, a politican seeks to be elected, a statesman seeks to lead. We could use more of the latter and fewer of the former (hope I got that right) And ::Shuders:: Imagine, Rooster you and I agreeing, In the words of Fagin from Oliver, I am reviewing the situation...

Actually I like the Electoral College, it proves the genius of the Constiturional Authors. I spent a good deal of my life in Illinois where we always got the state government that Chicago wanted. Didn't matter what the people in downstate Illinois wanted it got because thats where the votes are. As soon as the country goes to a straight popular vote, you can just about forget seeing any presidential candidate in anything resembling a rural state. There will be no more criss-crossing the country meeting citizens from every little boro, hamlet and way station. The candidates will hole-up in the major population centers and speak specifically to the concerns of the urban and suburban areas. Actually, I couldnt fault them, cause I would do the same thing. To change the system would take a constitutional amendment and I doubt many of the smaller rurally based states would want to give up their influence on a presidential race. The way its set up requires a candidate to look at the country as a whole, not as just a patchwork of population centers. As a total aside, I always get amused when people start talking about the Electoral College and how its an ananchorism. It was built into the constitution and the bill of rights just as Freedom of Speech, Right to Bear Arms, Freedom of/from Religion are. Why not consider the Bill of Rights flawed? Lets rework that, after all it was put together a long time ago, surely things are different now. After the last presidential election there was lots of talk about needing an Amendment making the presidential election a straight popular vote, what happened to all that talk? It happens every time there is a close vote, much hue and cry and nothing is done, because in the end, the ELectoral College system works and is the best vehicle. Those guys who wrote the Constitution had their stuff together.

DD Do you have a reference stating that a 25 hour course and when help is delayed is the basic course that BSA requires? Why would the 25 hours course satisfy the basic course requirement and also the elective requirement? I am confused

the core Venture First Aid requirements are First Aid Complete a standard first aid course plus the American Red Cross When Help Is Delayed module or equivalent course. The Elective First Aid requirements for Venture are: Build a personal first aid kit or help build a group first aid kit. Know how to use everything in the kit. Teach another person in your crew, another crew, a Cub or Boy Scout group, or other how to make and use a personal or group first aid kit. Do 2, 3, or 4. 2 Complete a 25 hour emergency first aid course plus the American Red Cross's When Help Is Delayed module or equivalent course. 3 Complete a 45-hour emergency response course plus the American Red Cross's When Help Is Delayed module or equivalent course. 4 Complete an EMT Basic course offered through a local hospital, college, or first aid crew. taken from this website http://usscouts.org/advance/venturing/OutdoorBronze.html Our crew recognizes the Red Cross First Aid Course and CPR registration as meeting the core requirements and the elective requirements are pretty straight forward(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)