OldGreyEagle

Heck, as some of you may remember, I am from Chicago where the Hawk sweeps in off Lake Michigan and confronts your will to survive. Cold and Snow are not an enemy, they are old friends. Anybody remember Chicago's Superstorm of 1967? Although, when I opened the garage door and saw that 4 foot high drift 20 feet long on the drive way I may have stepped back once (or twice). Snow depths of 24-30 inches with all sorts of drift totals makes the Bears approach of turning over and sleeping til Spring downright genius. However, Driveway is clear, 40's forecast till the week end so I have to enjoy this while I can.

2 ticket items done, 1 more will be complete when I teach my three sessions at the Unversity of Scouting in March, the fourth one is 3/4 done and I am struggling with the 5th Growing up, I was always one of the biggest, tallest kids in my class. I learned early about something called the Napoleon Syndrome where little guys try to prove their worth against a larger opponent. The ranting and ravings of insignificant critters holds little interest to such a noble creature(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Fella, I am not sure what your point was on your last post. My post had a question mark at the end of it. I as trying to imply that just because you (the rhetortical you, not actually you) have an earring doesnt mean you (rhetorical again) have a charactor flaw. Perhaps I could have stated it better. My 17 yr old Eagle scout son who will be working at our Summer Camp this year just got a single stud in his ear. My wife and I figured as he will be having another surgery this spring to remove a 2 centimeter stone from his surgically reconstructed bladder which he drains through a stoma on his abdomen every 3-4 hours and sleeps attached to a drainage bag. He has so many surgical scars from suprapubic tubes and multiple surgical site scares that a pin hole in his ear was probably fairly minor The heck of it was the stud he got came as a pair and I thought it only right that we not be wasteful (a scout is thirfty) and the second stud should be used so I volunteered the use of my ear lobe so it wouldnt be wasted ( the stud, not my ear lobe). Unforntunatley a hasty family meeting was called and i lost 2-1 in a vote as to whether or not I could get one too. You know, this democracy stuff has its drawbacks

First of all RMV, Welcome to this forum and I hope yo will become a regular, we seem to atract all types from middle-high age scouts to those of us who are a bit more experienced in the world (read old). This can be a fractious group, but most are serious about being the best scouter they can be. I understand your point about growth, but the perception of the volunteers tends to be all the professionals want is money and growth, and if at the cost of a quality program, oh well, thats too bad. Notice I didnt say that was true, but often its the perception. What can BSA, Councils, and Districts and we volunteers do to correct the misconceptions we have of professionals and to keep things "fair and balanced" how are volunteers perceived by the professionals?

So, I want to get this right, there is evidence that Bush knew about and encouraged the attacks on 9-11 and ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, The New York Times,The Washington Post, etc and Matt Drudge all are protecting Pres Bush because they are in on it?

So Bush was in on the 9-11 attacks which he encouraged and supported? I read the Website you provided the link to, is there any collaborating website?

I dont smoke and never have so I will leave tobacco alone. However, I do have a thought about alchohol use. Alchohol, in moderation (the French Paradox), has been shown to have health benefits. Our Scouts know there is alchohol, they probably know quite a few kids who live to get drunk, and may know a few adults who do the same thing, perhaps even their own parents. Why not allow alchohol on scouting events? Why not be the role model that today's youth sorely needs, to show adults using alchohol in a responsible manner, that a glass of wine with dinner or a beer at the campfire isnt the worst thing in the world. That alchohol comsumption CAN be done in moderation and getting stinking drunk dosent have to happen every time a person drinks. That way, when the scouts reach legal age and are able to drink they can think of their adult leaders and think, they could drink and not get drunk and so can I. This of course comes from my experience as a youth, The adults always had beer with them and had a beer around the campfire, those that drank each had one and thats it. No scout dared touch a can as we knew the consequences. Now, I know if BSA were to relax its ban on alchohol what would happen. Lets pretend I get to change the BSA's mind about alchohol and the official policy becomes "alchohol" in moderation. The first time there is an alchohol related injury/death whatever, I would be persona non-grata and the booze ban would we back and for good reason. I respect the BSA position on Alchohol and follow it. Actually I dont drink that much anyway. I just think responsible drinking could be demonstrated by leaders.

He has all my prayers

With all of the recently bought duct tape floating around out there, you could run a strip from wall to wall and stick the sheet to it. Be careful to use either a colored sheet or avoid back lighting with a white sheet...

Actually if the offical head gear of the BSA was modeled on the FFL hat probably lots more kids would be wearing them, I'd love a nice cap with the funky hangy down drapery in the back kind of thing

My sons first patrol was the Bucks, the other new scout patrol in the troop was the Sharks, two years later due to attrition (based on a lousy program since beefed up) the two patrols were merged. They become the beavers although they always had the unofficial name "The Buck Toothed Sharks" The patrol medallion would have been the shark patch with two white squares on the upper lips

I am so confused!!! I always thought First Class First Year was a program that troops follow to assure that all the requirements that a scout must complete for First Class are offered by the Troop during the scouts first year, so that if the scout attended the scheduled events, the scout COULD be first class in a year. I do not remember seeing anything that remotely says that the Scouts MUST be first class in a year, or that the troop is a bad one if the acouts are not first class in a year, only that the opportunity to be first class in a year is presented. Now we could go off and say that if the scouts dont attend events, then perhaps the events need to be more interesting, and thats true. If a scout has other "comittements" and doest go on events,its not up to the troop to rush through reuirements for him. The First Class First year Program is not to blame for signing off requirements if the skill is not learned or the events not attended. It is not to be the whipping boy for "forced" or "adult lead" advancement. BSA statistics show boys who make first class in the first year are much more likely to be retained as scouts but that doesnt mean you advance somebody just to advance them. All that does is teach the kids who worked to earn their ranks that they were saps. Just maybe, because some troops follow First Class First Year more scouts are staying longer in scouting and therefore more scouts earn Eagle. If so, thats great as long as proper advancement methods are used and the skills are learned.

Merlyn can you tell me where this Venture Crew is that is providing the recreational program for a high school? I would love to find out more about them

Hey Flip, I just updated another thread on pocketknives you may find interesting. Plus I am bethlehem. Do you attend camp at Treasure Island or Ressica Falls?

Bringing this up

If adult leaders are not sharing their youth adventures around a campfire, I think thats the adult leaders problem, not the programs. And I wouldnt be surprised if your young scouts are still learning about girls from the older guys, just happens you dont see/hear it. As far as talking about cars, it was a lot easier to grasp the concept of a four barrel holly carburator sitting on a 440 cunic inch engine with twin over-head cams and dual exhaust riding on a jacked up 4:11 gear with Mickey Thompsons than it is to comprehend micro-processor assisted fuel injection with a nitrous-oxide boost system. It also didnt hurt most older scouts with cars could work on them themselves, a rarity today (but I digress, I loved the Charger in Fast and the Furious and the GTO in Triple X) We have become a goal/results oriented society, why are the sports programs so intense these days? WHy do coaches threaten kids if they miss a practice, let alone a game? Because of the desire/need/compulsion to win, to be the best, to excell. Why wouldnt that same attitude crossover into scouts? If there are ranks to earn, you go earn them, I can see why the number of Eagles has grown if only based on those societal changes. Then add in those adults who use the program as an Ego boost, trying to instill self worth by "awarding" ranks in an asmebly line fashion (or so I hear). Its not a surprise Eagle numbers are up. Now, as I remember somewhere in my dark and long and mouldering past, if you see a problem and want to talk about it, you should also have a suggesiton for solving it. First off, make it a tradition that at every campfire every adult leader with scouting experience say something about how it was in the "good ol'days". Encourage the scouts to talk about the most fun they ever had, have them explain the activity, listen close, you may come up with some program ideas. Suggest the best ideas get submitted to the PLC. If your patrols dont have flags, have a patrol flag competion, do the same with cheers. Have a scout MC the campfire and have him start songs the adults know, it may take awhile, but the kids will catch on. Recite poetry, stand on your head, do something. There is an old scoutmaster I know, his favorite saying is "we are in the business of making memories, let them be great one". If you dont think your program is producing great memories, start!(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I may not be the brightest bulb in the box so I need some help here. When you say other people dont trust these two, what do you mean? They steal? They physically hit, they sexually molest? Why are they not trusted and if they arent trusted, why are there people involved with them who have children, this inquiring mind wants to know

And dont forget that cabin camping nights dont count towards the camping merit badge either

But Merlyn, thats the point, Its funny that the most significant photo in Boy Scout's in the last 50 years is so hard to find. It would end an urban legend

Actually this is going well, I was afraid we would get into another its wrong/its ok argument going over ground that has been plowed more often times that the farmland next to the Nile. I wanted to get the facts on the Dale case and I would really love the picture that the Star-Ledger published that got the whole ball rolling

Thank you all, The link Merlyn has is quite good. The issue is whether or not the picture with the pink tabs actualy exists. I think its an urban legend, then again I could be wrong. What I am looking for now is the actual picture the Newspaper ran after he did the interview that started the whole fracas or the pink tab one. I dont doubt perhaps somebody posed in a uniform at a gay pride day with pink tabs, I just dont think it was Dale, any help would be appreciated.

Well, Thank You Merlyn I appreciate it And no Dan, not that Picture, I mean the one of him in the rally. Unless that was the picture that ran in the paper that started the whole thing, is it?

I almost cant beleive I am posting this here as I have no idea where this is gonna go... What are the facts of the Dale case or at least where can I go to find out? I was at a scouter meeting a few days ago and someone said Dale was thrown out because he was demonstrating for Gay Rights in uniform with pink ribbons on his epaulets. I said no, he was at a gay rights rally and he appeared in a picture, was recognized and the rest is history. Dale kept being gay separate from Boy Scouts. The other person disagreed. Whats the correct story? Or maybe even more fun, what do you think you know about the case? I would love to find the original picture that started it all and see what he is wearing. And yes, it may be unscoutlike, but my opponent in this is a loud mouth know it all braggart that I would sorely love to crush like a bug and we all know there is usually only room for one of those in a Disrict so I need to run him off...(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I love talking about Chicago, Acco, So, the analogy is that Illinois is a country with Chicago as the urban center. We dont need an electoral collegem we will vote strict popular vote. Because Chicao has the votes, they get the money and the programs. University of Chicago gets funding doubled, Southern Illinois University in Carbondale get halved. The Schools in Chicago get almost all the money, the down states schools get zilch (or close). Chicago becomes a bright shining star in the midst of poverty and squalor. Now people born in Illinois are smart they see whats going on and they all move to Chicago to get in on the action and to be taken care of, and eventually the Chicogoans starve because the infra-structure outside of the Chicago metro-politan area becomes so unusable they cant get food to market. What little food there is as farms have been abandoned because everyone moved to Chicago. As they starve they ask the policians why cant you feed us and the politicans reply, but we gave you everything you asked for...

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