OldGreyEagle

Not being a combustion expert, I have a question, does a catalyltic heater procduce carbon monoxide/dioxide? There may not be a flame, but if the flames dont get you, the gases might, especially in a nice tent all zipped up to keep that heat in

It may have taken awhile, but a dim lightbulb just went off. Youngblood and AquatDir are talking about the swimmer test taken at Summer Camp to establish the campers status at the waterfront versus the First Class requirement of swimming. I can see a difference in how those two items would be judged. A Swimmer test for camp would qualify for passing First Class, but merely eeking out the first class swimming requirement may not make a waterfront director comfortable putting the swimmer out in any type of boat (or over the head water). BTW, our Summer camp allows boats to go out with one swimmer and a beginner as a crew, is that wrong? Both of course wear PFD's from 10 feet near the water on in. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ok, so Ed, what you are saying is if you do the minimum requirements for Eagle then you deserve Eagle, so you have reversed your opinion stated previously: "If all you require in your Troop is the Scouts show up and they complete their advancement & do the minimum to earn Eagle then you are doing the program and the boy a large diservice." So now you dont believe the above statement?

I will try this once more, First we have this statement: "The Advancement policies of the Boy Scouts of America are specific. No individual or unit has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement." This is from Bob White's post on the swimming issue and I dont know of anyone who disputes this. If so, let me know, I think this is one we all agree on, or at least are supposed to agree on. Then we have Ed's statement from this thread directed to Bob, "If all you require in your Troop is the Scouts show up and they complete their advancement & do the minimum to earn Eagle then you are doing the program and the boy a large diservice." If we all agree you cant add or take away requirements, how else does a scout advance? He meets the requirement. Its not a minumum, its not a maximum its the requirement. As Master Yoda says, there is no try, only do or do not. Its a pass/fail type of thing. You tie a square knot or not, you cant require the scout to tie it blindfolded, although that may be a good idea for a patrol game, but you cant decide to say the requirement is to tie a square knot and in my troop, that means a square knot while blindfolded, behind your back, in water over your head, etc. Requiring the boy to do more than the requirements (which I think Ed takes as the minimum) is against BSA policy. If I am wrong Ed, Sorry about that. Now, as the Scoutmaster, or other adult leader you may challenge the scout to strive for greater heights, to push himself beyond his comfort zone, to let him see he is able to accomplish more than he ever thought he could. Adults who challenge young people and dont accept anything less than excellence are often the adults the young person grows up remembering with the most respect and fondness. Yes, you can and should push the scout to acheive his highest potential. But as soon as you start to require more than the requirements, you are wrong, pure and simple. The Hiking merit badge requires 5 10 miles hikes and one 20 mile hike. You cant say in my troop, its 5 20 mile hikes and two 50 mile hikes because I want to be sure my boys can walk. And actually, whats wrong with being a Cookie Cutter organization? Its what made McDonalds famous, no matter where you go the food is consistent. No matter where you go an Eagle Scout is known to have certain traits, and its desirable to be able to say you are an Eagle. Why is it so desirable? Because an Eagle Scout has been shown to possess certain skills and abilities. People have come to expect certain things of Eagles because they know that all Eagles share common training. If you require more than the minimum, you are doing the program the dis-service. If you think the Eagle requirements are to soft, OK, I am with you, lets get together and start a drive to toughen up Eagle, but until then, if you meet the requirements, you're an Eagle. Maybe we could award Eagle to those who just do the minimum requirements, and then Eagle cum Laude if you do more and then Eagle Magna Cum Laude to those who go above and beyond, then of course we will have discussions on the difference between the 3 levels, oh well, debate and disagreement, its what makes us the country we love

We are the Vultures, Our patrol Yell is "we are watching you" and our patrol standard is a plastic vulture left over from halloween on a perch, his name is Buzz

From my experience with Patrol boxes, those plastic tubs look better every day... The finger nail polish is a good idea and color coding and use colored wirewraps/cable ties when for other patrol equipment

If all that was left for a scout to do to earn Eagle after being away for a year or more was do his project, then that means he earned his 21 merit badges, served in his leadership position and had demonstrated adequate scout spirit for each rank up to and including Life. After earning Life he still has a passle of merit badges to earn (i dont have the number as i am not close to a handbook here in the Hotel Syracuse). To earn the merit badges he has to show some scout spitit just to complete them. Then he drops out, and comes back to finish his project. If he can get it done, he has shown the correct scout spirit to get Eagle. Remember, on his Eagle application the scout has to list a number of references. If scout spirit is an issue with you contact the references and talk to them. (I think you can do that) To tell the scout he isnt welcome back, or that to get Eagle he has to jump through hoops forged by the ego of a scoutmaster who is bent on revenege doesnt seem scout like Does anyone remember the story of the prodigal son? How one son took riches from his father and squandered them and came back? How was he treated? How did the son who stayed with his father react and do you see any similarities to the Scout who comes back to finish Eagle ?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

If a scout earns Life, Does his project, earns his merit badges, fulfills his 6 months of leadership and gets Eagle, and then drops out of sight he is still an Eagle If the scout does all the above except one elective merit badge and comes back one day before his 18th birthday and does the basketry meritbadge to make his required total, he deserves to be Eagle. He did the prescribed requirements in the presribed time. I might not like it, Youngblood doesnt like it, but the rules be the rules. You cant add or subtract from them

Youngblood, I have often asked this question rhetorically, but now I direct it to you: A scout earns Eagle at 15, attends two meetings and is literally never seen again. When you see him at school and ask why he abandoned the troop he says that other things occupy his time now. He earned his Eagle and shall have it forever. Another scout earns Life at 14 and earns all his merit badges except one, finishing his project and gets his leadership in before he is 15 and no one sees him until his 17th birthday when he says he wants to finish his Eagle. You are going to deny him getting his final meritbadge and his chance at Eagle? He fulfilled the same requirements the first guy did, he just did them on a different schedule. Requirements, you cant take them away and you cant add to them

If he had sought Eagle after his six months as SPL, would the dissenters have any problems with it? Would they have even been dissenters? Again, if he would have been awarded Eagle and then dropped out, never to be heard of again, how much different would that be from this situation. Just because he dropped and wants to come back is no reason to make it harder for him than someone who stays active until they are Eagle and then goes away never to be heard from again. Now, if he has been arrested for a multitude of things maybe you can claim lack of scout spirit, but living the scout oath and law can be done and not attend scout meeting and functions. You can meet with the boy and tell him your glad he is comming back, and how much his experince will help the younger boys and you'd like to see him on some outings, but in the end, you cant require it from him.

Bob, try this: Show your dissenters the scout handbook where it lists the Eagle requirements, show how this scout has met each one of the criteria. Does he have the required meritbadges, yes, Does he have completion of the leadership requirement, yes, has he done his project, yes ( I think, you have to verify). In short, show them the requirements and ask where the scout has fallen short of the stated requirements. Just because it doesnt seem to "be right" isnt a reason to deny Eagle. You are not the one accepting him back, its really not your decision to make, your role, and the troop adult leadeship for that matter, amoung other responsibilities, is to assure the rules of advancement are followed consistently for all boys

No offense taken RMV, and I understand about how dry humor is often very difficult to convey with only text (and how!) But playing a video game? Come now, I am more into reading of the classics, Gullivers Travels, Of Mice and Men, Return of the Native, To Kill a Mockingbird (A must read), Beowulf, etc. But with member a troop committee member, Unit Commissioner for a Pack and a Troop, Disrict Advancement Committee Chair, Venture Committee Member, and woorking on my Woodbadge ticket, my latest book Critique of Pure Reason is woefully neglected. (Oh and I am not complaining, I love evrything I do and I am aware of people in my district who do more)

What if this scout would have completed his project, got his Eagle and then dropped out of sight, would it be any less irritating to you? If he has the qualifications, he has to sucessfully complete his project, he has to have the merit badges, and he has to have record of the 6 months of leadership since being a life scout and he is registered with your troop, then he has the right to be an Eagle. Maybe he took the long and winding road, but if he meets the requirements, the rank is his.

RMV, Thank-You, I think

Dont forget, if you have a campout this weekend, or any type of activity, its B-P's birthday. We sang Happy Birthday to him at our Troop meeting. Have your unit sing Happy Birthday to B-P, give everybody a reason to smile and to think what a single idea can do ...

After our last re-organization, these are the patrol names that are in use. The Pyros, patrol standard is an artifical torch with an orange light and a fan that blows a few strips of fabric in the air, their patrol yell is More Wood, More Wood, Pile it On The Bushies, (Patrol medallion the Pine tree) Their patrol yell "Dont listen to what I say, believe what I mean" The Gum Blob patrol, Medallion is one of the colored thread animal patches that looks like, well, a gumblob The Flaming Arrowheads, you should see their head gear The Wise Owls, their patrol yell, "what, you think we're stupid" The Black Dragons, yell "HISSSSSSS" And the Official Boy Scout Patrol, affectionately known as the OBS The adults were a little unsure of some of the names, but we figured the boys wanted them and none were offensive and so we went with them. I think the Bushies were suprised, they were ready to fight for their name and when it was approved, they were suprised. (by the way ASM1, they do NOT pray to dubya). As it turned out, all of our "problem children" ended up in one patrol. Again, we gulped and said, ok if you want it that way, fine. Now when they skip out of work, they only mess up scouts who also skip out a lot. They are learning to work together because they are all they have, a lesson we could never have foisted on them.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Our troop did a total reorganizaiton a few months past. The PLC came up with the plan. We have enought boys for 8 patrols of 12 (I know thats huge, but beleve me, with sports, band, theatre, choir, etc. we never have a full house) The troop put 12 chairs in 8 groups in our meeitng area. Then Eagle, Life and Star scouts were FREE to go to any group of chairs they wanted. The tules were no more than 3 (number based on scouts in those ranks and number of patrols) could be in a single patrol, then the rest of the scouts not in the first year program were allowed to go to the chairs. The First year scouts stayed with their troop guides. These were the new patrols. They then elected Patrol Leaders, a list of the absent scouts was read and the patrol leaders indicated who else they wanted until everyone had a patrol. Thats the way we ( ahem, actually the way OUR PLC)did it

From my understanding of how training committees are supposed to work, Call your District/Council and ask for training during one of your meetings or establish an extra meeting and have the trainers come to you. At least that what our District will do

"If some un-named nation took the territory of the United States away from us Americans and gave it to someone else, and we were all herded and prosecuted by these new invaders, how would you feel?" I know I would feel pretty bad, but I would defer to the thoughts of le Voyageur. For some reason it seems some people will always hate another group. Look at the Prostestants and Catholics of Northern Ireland as well. As far as taking over Israel, I dont think we should invade and toppple a sovereign power just because it doesnt follow a few UN resolutions (sic), after all they are irrelevant. However, there is something we could do for/to Israel that might be better than taking it over. It's relatively simple actually. Israel wants to be regarded as a world power. It likes to posture itself as a free independent country beholden to no one. We should oblige them and help them take the last step. We should quit sending them any aid. Shut the billions of dollars a year worth of goods and supplies off. They imagine themselves as hardy freedom loving people independent as can be, let them take that stance without my tax money. Now, if they want to keep the US aid, keep the billions pouring in (see Turkey) then they will create a Palestinian homeland and make nice with their neighbors, after all they all feed from the same trough, (ours) we might as well remind them of that. (some of the preceeding does not necessarily reflect the true thoughts of the author, other parts do, any simlilarity to actual people or events is purely coincidence and sorry if I made you think)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

If you would like the Who is the Scoutmaster, please send me an email address, I think the script will look better if I can attach it as a file.

Ok, I'll start: When will the current uniform be redone? Do you know if the dis-satisfaction with the way the uniform shorts fit is appreciated in Irving? What about the dorky style of the uniform hat? Is that slated to change any time soon? Are you sick to death about these uniform questions? Shutting up now

First, a welcome to Dsteele, another Professional who has taken the plunge and a hearty handshake for RMV who in his (her?) short time has shown to be an asset to the forum. Rather than continue on a thread that has follwed more twists and turns than Lord Bryon's life, I think we need a new one, so, anybody got a question to ask the Pro's? or a comment? Pro's you can do the same

First, Is the Lambs Farm in Libertyville still operating? Is that near you? Laura, I beleive it was William Shakespeare who wrote, A Rose by any other name would still smell as sweet... If you are providing a service for the troop that is needed, and you have no problem doing and you can see how to break that service down so that the boys can do it themselves with you providing the adult representation when needed, I dont think it matters much what patch (ASM or Committee Member) you wear. I think your troop would be bonkers (thats a psychiatric technical term" if they didnt retain you in your present role if you became an ASM. PS: If you want you can do that job in out troop, I can guarantee to the position of Activity Goddess Second Class (promotion to First Class contingent on succeddful first year, not validn in states where such warraties are implied and not stated) (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

His hair didnt earn 21 merit badges, successfully complete an Eagle Leadership Project or successfully hold a position of responsibility in your troop for 6 months Besides, I think the visiting dignitaries will realize it wasnt the troop that dyed his hair. Having said all that, I would not be opposed to a discussion with the boy, laying out who will there, the number of pictures that will be taken and a thought about how those pictures will play 20-30 years from now. It may give him something to think about. In the end though, its the boys day and if he chooses to be red, then it up to him. It could be worse, it could be green. orange or purple.

I have a skit that I have worked on over the years. Its for two people though. It's a direct rip-off/homage to the classic Abbot&Costello routine "Who's on First". Its called "Who's the Scoutmaster?" If interested let me know, here's the first page: Adapted by OldGreyEagle with apologies to Abbott & Costello The skit begins with a uniformed Scouter standing on stage when another person enters the stage, preferably wearing a hat with the word PRESS written on an index card and placed in the hat band. Reporter: Are you the representative of Troop XXX in XXX ? Scout: Yes sir. Are you the reporter I am supposed to meet? Reporter: Yes I am. My paper thinks a story on your troop would be interesting, its supposed to be very unique. Scout: Yes, after all, we are the finest troop in XXX Council! Reporter: Well, I am glad you are proud of your troop, now tell me about the leaders. Scout: Lets see now, WHO is the Scoutmaster, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader and I DONT KNOW, the Quartermaster. Reporter: Well thats just great. I dont think you are the right person for this. Scout: And Why not? Reporter: Do you know the leaders names or not? Scout: Yes I do. Reporter: OK, then who is the Scoutmaster? Scout: Yes. Reporter: I mean the guys name. Scout: WHO. Reporter: Who is your Scoutmaster? Scout: Right. It goes on for 7 pages