OldGreyEagle

On a lighter note: The whole meshing of Boy and Girl Scouts has been a real eye-opener. As I commented before our crew organized a Rendezvous (gathering of all the Council crews) last year. We had it at a Boy Scout Camp and had the waterfront open for canoeing and rowboats. The Shooting range was open for skeet and rifle and one Crew sponsored an Axe throw. (Properly supervised with National Jamboree trained adults). Breakfast and lunch was cooked by the Crews. Part of the days activities was that every Crew stopped by the Dining Hall and helped the Dinner Cooking Crew prepare dinner. At 6:00 Pm, we ate, and it was fine. The Crews brought their Picture albums and Poster Board displays and members wandered about to see what other Crews had done. They talked, we had a campfire program and played music and there was a game of risk that lasted well into the night. This years Rendezvous will be a little different, the Cooking Crew will be doing a pig roast and Saturday nights dinner will have a luau theme. (Actually, I wanted to roast a goat or lamb, but the youth said pig and well, it is their organization) One potential snag was during a planning meeting a male scout had the audacity to suggest the girl members belly/hula dance. Its quite amazing only one innocent bystander was struck by the shower of pens, pencils, notebooks; etc heaved his direction by the female attendees. This years event will be more competitive, with each Crew sponsoring an event. One of the issues has been a vocabulary deficit. Most of the female youth are/were Girl Scouts. When we said we would have a Campfire, they wondered why we would just sit around a fire all night, we had to explain that saying Campfire implied skits, songs, cheers, etc. When we were discussing having an event in a local Mall to publicize the Venture Program, with booths set up by each Crew a female rich in Girl Scout tradition said it would be a Venture Faire Most of the male youth almost went into an apoplexic rage at being remotely connected to a Faire. However, they did see the benefits of a Venture Exhibit The term Cracker barrel was roundly discussed and has been replaced with fellowship feast. Each month its something new. (Interesting enough, at first some faction of the Council wanted to charge the Ventuers for using a Boy Scout camp, but after a conversation with the Council Executive, the camp came free. BTW a Council Wide Venture activity is to help the Crew based at that Camp ready the Camp for this years season)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

The Lewis and Clark Trail to Discovery? What the heck is that? I have been in Ventures for 3 years, have attended Training, have attended Council Venture Roundtables, have helped our Crew put together a Council Wide Rendezvous last year and have another one on the schedule for this year and have helped our Council set up a Venture Executive Board (VEB) (composed of representatives of all council crews) and have never heard about this. Maybe I have been on Double Secret Probation and this has been kept from me I think the whole OA thing is a moot point as long as female youth can not be members. To this effect males should not wear lodge flaps, be Chiefs of their Chapters or Lodge, or anything OA if they are only registered as a Venture.. I also think male youth should not wear the Eagle rank on their Venture Uniform nor should male adults wear square knots that relate to Boy or Cub Scouts. The Powederhorn is absolutely fine as its specific to Venturing. We keep on saying Venturing is new, as it is, and should be allowed to mature, as it should, but we need to quit adding things only for the male youth if we want it to be taken seriously. Otherwise a Crew is just a Boy Scout troop with girls serving as eye candy.

Its not that Male ventures cant be in the OA, its that females under 18 cant be in the OA and can only be adults in the program. I dont think any BSA ranks or societies should be on a Venture uniform unless ALL mwembers can participate

Now Acco, Yew no that wood never werk. Eye at tymes sea horrible spelin an grammer and want to menshun it, butt then eye read my own posts and seize where aye did the same thing. If ewe dont tell on me, I wont tell on yew (hope know won is homophonophobic)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I may not be understanding you, why would getting boys who were never scouts, who are now 16 to join a Crew decrease numbers? I would think this is the market we want to tap, teens (both sexes) 14 on up who were never in scouts, either because they were never asked, moved in the area at a "bad" time, etc. But I would think, and its only me, that a Council would rather have a Crew populated with 20 kids who were never scouts than a Crew with 40 that are all registred as Boy Scouts somehwere else as well. But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. Our Co-Ed Crew was down on the "formal" uniform, well the girls were at least. Then for a Public Service project the Crew had to make a presentaiton to a community group for funding. They quickly realized they looked "better" in the green shirt and matching pants (wheat) than they did in the tied-dyed t shirts they wanted to do. (PS, they got the grant and built a playground at a safe-house for battered spouses and children) The OA thing is a problem as well. Acutally, it shouldnt be a problem. The OA is a BSA program, no lodge flaps on a Venture Uniform and there's no problem. Just like Eagle, things BSA should stay out of the Venture program. We can start our own Honor Society, start our own traditions. Lets see, Native Americans are taken, any body have any suggestions ? Roman Legions perhaps? Greek Society? The Amazons? The Summarians? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Brought over from another thread Venturing, while having the potential of being a great program, still has a way to go. These are my observations from my corner of the world The first issue I see is the age range, you take a 14 year old boy and put in him a meeting with 19 and 20 year old young ladies, and it may be a few years before he finds his voice. The same thing occurs with a 14 year old girl in with 19 to 20 year old young men. The next issue is one of retention in those upper age ranges. All of our 18 and above Crew members go to college and are away from home. So the program to keep the youth active until they are 21 falls apart because they went to college. The fact the older members are away most of the time means the younger members 16-17 run the crew and what a 16 year old sees as "fun" may not appeal to a 19-20 year old in the limited time the college students are home. Then in a Co-Ed crew (could you tell thats the kind I am associated with?) you have a problem with the boys being able to receive Eagle as a Venture but the girls cant. Lets just tell the girls they are just along for the ride, that while they can earn Bronze and Ranger awards, they still arent good enough to earn Eagle. Yes, I know Eagle is a BSA rank, so leave it in Boy Scouts and out of Ventures. Then there is the matter of the Silver and Gold awards, did the BSA do any research on other youth organizations? (i.e. The Girl Scouts). Did they bother to learn the Girl Scouts two highest awards are called the Gold and Silver? Couldnt we have called the Venture awards something else? And did we have to rip-off the Explorer unifroms? We couldnt have had our own look? Then the organization of Crews, at least in my area seems slightly silly. Troops who struggle to hold onto older scouts start a Crew whose members come from their troop. Now scouts who have so many demands on their time, have another, the crew. And the crews struggle to have enough members on an event to make it worthwhile. Last issue I have is publicity of the program. Every time I see literature on the Venturing program its always someone rock-climbing, or rapelling, or general high adventure activity. In our crew we have awarded 5 bronze awards, 2 of them in Religious Life (used to be Youth Ministries) A Venture Crew can be oriented towards Outdoor Activities, Religious Life/Youth Ministries, Sports, Arts&Hobbies and Sea Scouts. But I havent seen much on Crews other than Outdoor ones. Now, solution time, as I see it. Councils/Districts should concentrate on having fewer crews that are larger than present ones. Instead of each CO with a troop having a crew, why not break up Districts into areas and pull from multiple troops. Actually even better would be to recruit teens who were never in scouting in the first place. Crews with nothing but Boy Scouts place a strain on themselves and the troops the scouts come from. I could see a District having a few Outdoor Crews, Sports Crews, etc. All facets of Venturing should be promoted, or they should be eliminated. The Uniform and awards should be distinctive to Venturing and not borrow terms from other established programs. I dont have an answer to the mixing of the ages or sexes, perhaps some one else will. I am interested in knowing how other people have overcome some of the problems I have mentioned. PS, I love the Venture Program, it, as I have said has great potential, I guess I am frustrated because in my area, the potential is yet to be realized.

As Agent 86, Maxwell Smart would say: Ah, "the old bunch of friends and their parents getting together to play paintball which is ok just as long as it doesnt count as a troop activity even though all the participants are from a troop trick" Actually, that'll work

Is it to late for me to change my answer to the One thing I could change in scouting? New item For Sctmom to find a troop her son can get excited about, he has the interest, but not the place to express it

I would be sure all members "realized" what their role is supposed to be examples: I'd make sure sure all Scoutmasters realized they are not the boss of the troop. I'd Make sure all Troop Committees realized they do not run the troop. I'd make sure sure that all Senior Patorl Leaders realized its his troop to run. I'd make sure the PLC realized its their program to establish and run

Lack of responses here may be more due to unfortunate timing than lack of interest. Check out the Thread "How Well is Venturing Doing" in the open program section.

Lack of responses here may be more due to unfortunate timing than lack of interest. Check out the Thread "How Venturing is Doing" in the open program section.

Heck, if he is good enough to get the Life rank at 13, why wouldnt he be good enough to get Eagle at 13? Or at least work on his Eagle Leadership Project when he is 13. If he isnt mature enough,the project wont happen and then theres no problem. Just because you son (?) doesnt fit the Ordinary profile of advancement, doesnt mean a thing. After all, as another forum member likes to say, the BSA is not supposed to be a "Cookie Cutter Organization". Advancement is at the Scouts pace. I mean if you think about it, lets say the scout joins on his 11th birthday. He becomes first class on his 12th birthday. He has 6 years until he is 18. Whats the magic formula to determine how long he should be at each rank? Wait, I know, until he earns the next one! He has to earn it, but if he does, its his.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Venturing, while having the potential of being a great program, still has a way to go. These are my observations from my corner of the world The first issue I see is the age range, you take a 14 year old boy and put in him a meeting with 19 and 20 year old young ladies, and it may be a few years before he finds his voice. The same thing occurs with a 14 year old girl in with 19 to 20 year old young men. The next issue is one of retention in those upper age ranges. All of our 18 and above Crew members go to college and are away from home. So the program to keep the youth active until they are 21 falls apart because they went to college. The fact the older members are away most of the time means the younger members 16-17 run the crew and what a 16 year old sees as "fun" may not appeal to a 19-20 year old in the limited time the college students are home. Then in a Co-Ed crew (could you tell thats the kind I am associated with?) you have a problem with the boys being able to receive Eagle as a Venture but the girls cant. Lets just tell the girls they are just along for the ride, that while they can earn Bronze and Ranger awards, they still arent good enough to earn Eagle. Yes, I know Eagle is a BSA rank, so leave it in Boy Scouts and out of Ventures. Then there is the matter of the Silver and Gold awards, did the BSA do any research on other youth organizations? (i.e. The Girl Scouts). Did they bother to learn the Girl Scouts two highest awards are called the Gold and Silver? Couldnt we have called the Venture awards something else? And did we have to rip-off the Explorer unifroms? We couldnt have had our own look? Then the organization of Crews, at least in my area seems slightly silly. Troops who struggle to hold onto older scouts start a Crew whose members come from their troop. Now scouts who have so many demands on their time, have another, the crew. And the crews struggle to have enough members on an event to make it worthwhile. Last issue I have is publicity of the program. Every time I see literature on the Venturing program its always someone rock-climbing, or rapelling, or general high adventure activity. In our crew we have awarded 5 bronze awards, 2 of them in Religious Life (used to be Youth Ministries) A Venture Crew can be oriented towards Outdoor Activities, Religious Life/Youth Ministries, Sports, Arts&Hobbies and Sea Scouts. But I havent seen much on Crews other than Outdoor ones. Now, solution time, as I see it. Councils/Districts should concentrate on having fewer crews that are larger than present ones. Instead of each CO with a troop having a crew, why not break up Districts into areas and pull from multiple troops. Actually even better would be to recruit teens who were never in scouting in the first place. Crews with nothing but Boy Scouts place a strain on themselves and the troops the scouts come from. I could see a District having a few Outdoor Crews, Sports Crews, etc. All facets of Venturing should be promoted, or they should be eliminated. The Uniform and awards should be distinctive to Venturing and not borrow terms from other established programs. I dont have an answer to the mixing of the ages or sexes, perhaps some one else will. I am interested in knowing how other people have overcome some of the problems I have mentioned. PS, I love the Venture Program, it, as I have said has great potential, I guess I am frustrated because in my area, the potential is yet to be realized.

So where was all this nifty advice when I asked? Would have made things a lot nicer if I knew the parameters before I started

The reason I didnt say anything about the ticket is simple. I still dont understand why the ticket thing is done the way it is, but I respect the people on this forum enough that if they feel so strongly about it, maybe I am missing something and wont elaborate any further.

Oh you guys, a simple yes or no would have been sufficient, but like Forrest Gumps feather, these threads tend to waft over a myriad, a veritable plethora of nuances, present or implied. Now, the troop I ran across was in the climbing gym, they had 3 hous there and then 3 hours of laser tag and that was their activity. (NOTE; It was not my troop). Scouts in our troop have wanted to do Laser tag for years, but the "word" was scouts couldnt do Laser Tag as it involved "shooting" at an animate form (I.E. Humans). But as has been discussed, the way the rules are written and how they are interpretted brings to mind a need for a Scouting Rosetta Stone, so we could answer just what do they mean by that? So, my simple quesiton boils down to this, if a scout is injured playing Laser Tag, will the BSA insurance cover it? I know it wouldnt if he was injured playing paintball, sky diving, or any of the prohibited activities. And bob, what suburb around Chicago? I was scout in the DuPage Area Council, Wood Dale, Troop 65 1964-1972 or so

If he "passed" his Board of Review, then he is an Eagle. You cant say, "hey you passed your eagle, but there is one more thing you have to do. The BOR should have been "suspended" until this last item was taken care of if it was of importance to the Board.

You know, you could always just wear black boots but I have a pair of white spats you could borrow just to see if the scoutmaster says anything, after all, they arent white shoes...

I knew I had heard that somewhere before

I knew I had heard that somewhere before

Troop_358, I took Woodbadge last fall and asked nearly the same question as you. Having done the course and now in the midst of doing my ticket items, I have to ask the same question. Whats the big idea on not talking about ticket items? No one here would talk about it, it was wait till the class then you will understand. What I understood was the topic of tickets wasnt talked about until midway through saturday afternoon and by the way your 5 ticket items are due at lunch on sunday. Not the best way to plan out the next 18 months or so of my scouting life. I see no reason why the ticket discussion couldnt be done on an evening prior to the first sessions. Now, having groused about that, I have to say taking Woodbadge was great, I loved almost all of it (except the ticket thing) and the people in the class and the staff have all bonded into one great passle of friends. I used to be Bear, and a big ol'cranky one to...(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

"... fun with a purpose...' Now where have I heard that before?

And dont forget something else, requirement 9 A Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. (You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement.) Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. Cabin camping doesnt count

Simple question, Can Boy Scouts do Laser Tag as a troop outing? I was always told no they cant, but this afternoon at a climbing gym I found a troop that was going to the laser place next door and they said they always did it. Now, am I mis-informed or is the laser tagging troop wrong? One of us has to be and I hope its me!

Ok, So its ok not to require more than the minimum from a scout for advancement right Ed? So any troop not requiring more than the minimum is doing ok and is not doing the program or the boy a dis-service? Because just a few days ago you said they were. AND, no one ever said Scout Spirit was to be signed off as a matter of course, the discussion was always that the scout meet, not exceed the requirements.