OldGreyEagle

(pardon the interruption, this thread is being hijacked by OldGreyEagle) With all due respect to Mr. White, I have to ask Ed these questions, Do you think any Council/District ever varies the syllabus to mess up/degrade/lessen or otherwise make the learning experience less than it should be? How do you measure how much your alterations "enhance" the learning experience? Have you ever had adults attend both your training and training done "by the book" and asked them to compare the differnt experiences? What qualifications does your training staff have that allows it to "know" how to improve a training program put together by professionals in training and years in development? (I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread)

I don't know if you have a lot in common with George Armstrong Custer, but you can look to him to see what happens when you ignore warnings about the oppositions strength. While there is nothing like facing a challenege, you should remember the old cliche about choosing battles you can win (the reason why cliches exist is because there is truth in them). In the end, its up to you, if it were me, I would lay it out to the Council how they are perceived by the professionals, where their Council operation has "opportunities" for improvement and how you intend to do your job. At least then everyone knows how, why, and where you stand.

Maybe I didnt explain myself well, I brought this thread up because of the Eagle Palm thread and the discussion if anyone had earned all the merit badges. I remembered this thread and brought it up.

I second the idea of bringing in a religious leader. The pastor of your CO if sponsored by a church of the pastor of the deceased's church if at all possible. This is something that can't be taken lightly and needs experinced intervention.

Check out the Thread titled "This stellar Boy Scout has legions of merits" in the Issues and Politics section. Its about a scout for earned all the merit badges BSA offers. Wonder how many palms he will get?

just bringing this up relating to the Eagle Palm thread

I am a Medicare Compliance Consultant specializing in Hospital Outpatient Billing. In the past I traveled all over the country visiting hospitals, from Pensacola, Forida to Karmela, Hawaii (big island). With stops on Whidbey Island, Washington to Eagle Pass, Texas. (There's a Dickies plant just one block from the Rio Grande) Currently I have a unique position in the company, I work from my home. I sit at my desk and answer E-Mail questions, and phone questions from our clients. You have to remember, Medicare regulations come from the same people who bring you the IRS tax code, so its always a challenge and always changing.

At our summer camp we are expected to be in full dress uniform for colours in the morning and at dinner. Personally I take along two uniforms and alternate them daily. The "not used" uniform is hung by a hanger in my tent, with some time on the drying line if the sun cooperates. Makes for a much nicer experience for all involved

Maybe this should go in the "things that Districts teach" thread,but just for kicks I Googled Woodbadge and got plenty of Scouting related subjects using the word Woodbadge. Maybe a memo from home office stating that it is Wood Badge would help

But if the prospect of being forced out of their comfort zone means they wont end up doing 5 wonderful things for their troop, has Woodbadge helped scouting thrive? I am entering my seventh year as a scouter (joined when son was 11) he turns 18 in June. I took Woodbadge last September because I finally learned enough about it to know it wasnt some super secret society, and that you werent going to be a "slave" to Council for 2 years. And yes, that is what I was told about Woodbadge when I first started with the troop. That Woodbadge was a program to recognize diehard scouters who didnt have a life outside of scouting and was the Council's way of saving money on "real" employees. I have since learned nothing could be further from the truth, but that knowledge didnt come easily. Every year our Council has an Eagle Recognition dinner where each scout who earned the previous year is honored. In the printed program is each scouts name,His District, troop number, home town and a three to four sentence description of his Eagle project. That program is often used as a reference for other scouts to get ideas. Not to copy them, but to understand the scope of what an Eagle project is. At the Council Recognition Dinner when they hand out the year's Silver Beaver awards, they always have a description of the awardee's qualifications. In the same printed program it may not be a bad idea to also list all Woodbadge bead recipients from the previous year by District, Troop, and give a one sentence summation of each ticket item they accomplished. It would certainly take the secrecy out of the Woodbadge program. People could see what was done and may trigger other ideaa, but most of all people could look at it and say, "yeah, I could do something like that" and then scouting really could thrive.

Ms Midnight, There is no reason you should have to go down this road alone. There has to have been more than a few other counselors who have witnessed the same behavior that you describe. Contact the camp staff for this year and from previous years and tell them of your concerns. These two must certainly have earned quite a reputation in the past and your fears would certainly gain credibility by having as many former employees back you up. Then either write, phone or make an appointment with the head of the council where this Camp is located. Dont go alone, have at least one other person who has seen the same things you have with you and take as many as can come. Present a letter detailing your groups observations with the signatures of as many former and present staff members as you can get. Alone you could be seen as a rabble rouser or perhaps a malcontent, but with numbers you become the leader of a concerned group of people. The issues you cite are very serious and while it may take courage to face them, with support it can be done, good luck (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Sorry Eamonn and Scoutldr, I have to respectfully disagree. I would never turn down a volunteer who wants to do something, even as marginal as helping a single troop with being a merit badge counselor. Its getting people involved in program that counts

Ed, I know you didnt mean it this way, so I apologize first Scouts is so much more than an Extra Activity, it is a program where those who want can participate as long as they wish well into adulthood and even into our second childhoods (actually a second childhood helps) Cant do that with sports. Scouts is open to those who want to make time for it as opposed to Sports which at the high school level tends to begin the ability attrition. Why are there so many more dollars for sports scholarships than scouts? I am reminded of Woody Hayes I beleive, (could be wrong) who was asked about the disparity between College Football Coaches salaries and College Professors salaries. He was asked if he thouht a football coach really deserved many times more money than a professor, he responded it depended whether or not the professor could fill a 100,000 seat lecture hall 6 times a year. We could also consider how fewer academic scholarship dollars there are compared to athletic dollars. When people pay money to see a group of students put up a 20 foot monkey bridge 10 feet off the ground in record time, our scouts will be heavily recruited. Until that time we will have to satisfy ourselves that we have influenced the charactor, the citizenship, and personal fitness development of our scouts. We will have to be content with giving them a set of values and ethics that they can rely on during their life. As far as being embarassed in uniform I think thats due to a mis-conception of what boy scouts do. Even in the greatest movie ever made (IMHO)Follow Me Boys (see other thread)Whitey (Kurt Russell) first doesnt want to join the scouts, saying "I dont want to go along with those daisy pickers" What does your troop (adults now) do to spread the word thats its cool to be a scout? To hike in nature, survive in primative conditions, canoe, raft whitewater, climb, etc? Scouts wont be embarrassed when people understand what we do, and its up to us to tell them

We used to in the pack, it was the Senior Unlimited Circuit, essentially no rules but that it had to fit on the track and not knock off other cars

KoreaScouter, I understand your position on what does it matter who sells the popcorn. Having popcorn selling be a "family affair" in no way can be bad. What I do not like is when the scout whose family all pitched in and together sells $2,000 is feted as a supersaleman and made a role model for the rest of the unit.

Egads, So that brand new troop trailer furnished by the CO payed for by funds generated by Bingo nights has to go back?

Robert, One more thing, so if your soccer player turns out to be the American Pele, or even the male Mia Hamm, how sad if he doesnt make Eagle because of your troops rules. If he doesnt make Eagle because he chooses other actitivities, thats up to him, if he wamts to be Eagle and your troops' rules prevent him, shame on all of your troop (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ed is on target here as are you. You cant add or take away requirements from the scouting program. Look at it this way. Lets say Ed runs Troop 1, I run Troop 2 and you run Troop 3. Ed doesnt have any attnedance requirements, he figures the scouts that show up will advance and the ones who dont, wont. I require 50 percent attendance for both meetings and events, and you require 2/3's attendance for meetings and 3/4's for events. Ed's troop produces an Eagle Scout, mine does and so do you. As far as national is concerned, all are Eagle scouts, but yours clearly overcame more obstacles (unecessary ones at that as well). Twenty years later, all three are still Eagles. Why does your troop demand what it does? To be sure the kids know their stuff? Why? If you have to double kids requirements to be sure they know their stuff,it doesnt speak well of your teaching. Henry Aaron is an Eagle Scout, sure glad some one let Hank play baseball throuhout his Scouting career. Could he have made Eagle in your troop? Bill Bradley is an Eagle Scout, played a little basketball, became a senator. I wonder if Bill could have met your troops' requirements as I imagine he played a little basketball as a youth. Could he have made Eagle in your troop? Gerald Ford is an Eagle Scout, played a little football at Michigan, went on to a rather unusual political career (became president without being elected to national office). I am sure He played a little football as a youth, could he have made Eagle in your troop? Willie Banks is an Eagle Scout and Olympic track athlete and a World record holder in the triple and long jump. I am sure he missed a few scouting events while running track as a youth, could he have made Eagle in your troop? Boys Life magazine routinely has articles about youth champions in snowboarding, skydivng, BMX, etc. These are scouts who excell at other interests, could any of these scouts, featured in Boys Life, scouting's magazine for boys , advance in your troop? Why does the troop leadership feel the need to exert this level of control? What is the reason given? What is said about troops without such rules?

Actually Ed, that was a rhetorical quesiton, David Soul played Hutch http://freespace.virgin.net/glyn.davies3/

I'll be in Pennsylvania, Minsi Trails Council and another council are doing a joint one

I am doing Powederhorn this fall as well, where are you going Tim?

I concur with Ron, there is nothing to say they cant earn a merit badge, but the emphasis should be on getting first class during their first year. Our Summer Camp (as most do) has a first year scout program in the morning and in the afternoon the scouts are free to do merit badges. Most do basketry, leather work, and space exploration amoung others. That way while they may not come home from camp first class (few actually do) they do come away with a tangible accomplishment

The patrol who takes apart a 10 foot rope to use the 3 strands to make a 30 foot rope isnt cheating, its using the resources at hand. Of course, they really oughta reconstitute the rope in case its needed some place else. Thats showing ingenuity. "Preping" firewood is out and out cheating. While taking the rope apart is unconventional, its using the rope in its natural state. Unless the Camporee is being held in the La Brea Tarpits, most wood is naturally free of petroleum products. I can understand the use of the radios for "safety" reasons, but I would add if I heard them used even once, someone from the patrol would have to leave the competition since obviously their use means someone is ill or injured. "Tower Day" is easily handled, no one can start building until a staff member certifies no pre work has been done. If it has, it has to be untied. After all practising isnt bad. And lastly, if it seems a lot of energy is being expended needlessly do all this ( and it is) what about telling the offending troop you are on to them, their behavior is unscoutlike and one more instance of such behavior will result in expulsion from competition?

Congrats Matua

only one word Stella!!!.................