OldGreyEagle

I asked earlier if anyone was going to Camp School at Hawk Mountain, but I did it at the last minute. I would like to know if anyone did attend this year. One of the Venture Crew members went and I would like to get an opinion on how well she did.

Interesting idea, that only a scoutmaster could give a scoutmaster minute. In our troop its been open to anyone who has a thought, usually its me. The Scoutmaster has never objected to anything I have said, and has occasionally suggested topics. I think this is a "whatever works" kind of thing

Zahnada, I dont know if you meant to do this, or maybe you did. One could make the argument that you are excusing the behavior of the group in the DMV because of the behavior of middle class white boys and I dont understand that. Then again, I may have misunderstood you. As far as why there is racial hatred, the best explanation is the song Savages from Disneys Pocahontas, I think it says it all Ratcliffe: What can you expect From filthy little heathens? Their whole disgusting race is like a curse Their skins are hellish red They're only good when dead They're vermin as I said and worse English settlers: They're savages! Savages! Ratcliffe: Barely even human! English settlers: Savages! Savages! Ratcliffe: Drive them from our shore! They're not like you and me Which means they must be evil We must sound the drums of war! English settlers: They're savages! Savages! Dirty redskinned devils! Now we sound the drums of war! Powhatan: This is what we feared The paleface is a demon The only thing they feel at all is greed Kekata: Beneath that milky hide There's emptiness inside Native Americans: I wonder if they even bleed They're savages! Savages! Barely even human! Savages! Savages! Powhatan: Killers at the core! Kekata: They're different from us Which means they can't be trusted What to do about it? I dont know, I am open to suggestion.

Remember the thread on Myths taught by Disricts? I think we may have stumbled on another. I was always told a sheath knife was "illegal" in Boy Scouts. I didnt really contest it as a regular (whatever that is) pocket knife was all I ever needed when camping. On Guam, I may have different needs (sic!) I think we can all agree that unless under extreme circumstances (jungles excepted)a two foot bowie knife with a beveled tip razor sharp on both sides with an engraved scene of the Alamo on the 4 inch wide blade probably isnt the best "tool" for a scout to have. A sheath knife properly sized for the task at hand in the hands of a trained used will be no more dangerous than a book of matches, in the hands of a trained user.

Well, he was our DE for 2.5 years so its about right. I do wish him well. Oh well, I guess the answer is to work with the other volunteers and make our disrict bigger than the others so we can get the broken in ones. Anyway, its a goal

Since you "just" need to obtain the parents approval, couldnt you just put in the troop by-laws that parents who adopt the stop and drop method imply consent when their son shows equiped for a the outing? just a thought

In America, everyone has the right to be a horsebehind, even Scoutmasters. May not be keep with the spirit of the Boy Scout program, but if the COR doesnt approve a leaders application based in the Scoutmasters opinion or any other opinion, the leader-in-waiting is up the crick without a paddle. But as my old sainted mother used to tell me after I came home crying the older boys wouldnt let me play, "... Why do you want to be with those who don't want you around..." There still has to be more to the story. PS If the COR isnt allowed to deny applications to his/her own troop, why give them that responsibility in the first place?

Hey Willy, been meaning to ask, how far from Escanaba are are you?

(to be sung to the tune of Bear Down Chicago Bears) Bear down da Minsi Bears Make every day a step to victory, Bear down da Minsi Bears Remember Gilwell Park and its history We will never ever foget our fascination, Trying to cope with all the information Bear down da Minsi Bears, Make sure they know why you are wearing the crown, Our pride and joy though others we annoy Da Minsi Bears, bear down Patrol Cheer: Oh Bother

My first thought is that its not the Committee Chair or the Scoutmaster that decides who may be a scout leader or not, its the job of the Charter Organization Represetative to approve leadership applications. Then again, thats the process, I would imagine the COR will ask the opinions of the CC and SM about the appliant and if two thumbs go down, well, it would be tough for the COR to approve a leader over the other two's opinion even though its the COR say. I guess the question is, why dont they want this person, paraphrasing Paul Harvey, I want to know, "... The rest of the story..."

Oh, upon further review, I meant I DONT BEGRUDGE him bettering himself.

Had our roundtable meeting last night (June 4)and found out our District Executive was just promoted, he is leaving us for a bigger district. This puts us in a a kinda hole. Over the past several years this kinda thing has happened quite a bit, we break in the newbies and then as soon as they are worth a darn, they are zipped off to another District. I guess this is a complement, but it does get to be tiresome. Our soon to be ex DE is a great guy and I begrudge him bettering himself, but the carousel bit gets to be real old, resl soon

Before anyone gets unscoutlike with Mr LeRoy, this is what I beleive his position is: He is against Schools, Police Depts, Fire depts (I.E. any tax supported entity) chartering a Scouting unit that has membership requirements involving religious beliefs. He keeps mentioning that 10, 000 units or so are chartered by governmental units. I dont know if that number is correct maybe someone else can verify that number. The support the CO gives doesnt have to be direct monetary support. If a unit holds meetings in a school, the unit is responsible in raising utility costs (heat lights etc). An Atheist family may resent having to support a club that costs them tax money but wouldnt allow them to join. Does he care about the BSA program? does he understand it on any level?, probably not, but in his context he doesnt have to. All he is concerned about is his taxes going to support an organization that wont let him be a member. Well actually, that his taxes support and seemingly endorse any form of religion. It took me a long time to understand this because this is a very emotional issue for me and from what I can see for many others. Its sorta a pardox, I understand why he does what he does, but I really wish he wouldnt while I know why he does it, I do wish he would go away, but still he has the right to feel and act as he does. This is just a clarification, it took me a long time to figure this out, and I am not sure why as he is pretty consistent in his rhetoric, although it may be a little inflamatory at times

Invite the crews to a meeting where they can display a posterboard of their activities or some other way to show off the trips they liked and have them talk about them and also talk about trips that didnt do well. After all the crews have presented what they liked, and what didnt do well, and what they want to do, you will know what topics to present and the kids may never know they set the agenda

Littlebillie, I am talking about a child, I dont understand how you pass judgement on a child to the point of calling him a hypocrite

Ed, Awhile back I was castigated pretty well by a member of this forum for a decision I made when I was 12-13 years old. I was fairly amused anyone would think that boy of twelve and the man I am today made decisions following the same criteria. I do not understand why you continue to harp on Merlyn's being an Atheist Cub Scout, especially when he explained his reasoning. Now, while you and I would not accept that line of reasoning from an adult, from a 7-10 year old child it makes perfect sense. To label a young boy as a hypocrite just doesnt seem right, then again I might be wrong

Rooster, its been a few days and no one has said anything about a part of one of your postings, and I cant let it lie. Exactly what is your opinion of Unitarian?

Well Merlyn, you were right, you did mention what happened to the money and I flat out missed it, although it was plainly stated and in my mothers own words "... if it was a snake, it would have bitten me..."

Merlyn, I used to live in Alton, Illinois and one of the reasons I don't live there anymore is because the town was slowly dissolving into a pit of gang violence and despair. We lived 3 houses from a Middle School and I witnessed drug deals on a weekly basis. For other readers of the forum ALton was a town whose downtown area was devastated by the 1993 Mississippi flood, (Alton is right on the river). The school system was never really strong and many times my son's teachers bought books with their own money so the students would have something. I understand your committment to no government support of scouting, I guess it slipped my mind with my last quesiton to you, how I am not sure, but it did. My thought is, when the 10, 000 dollar grant to Alton's Scoutreach program was "scuttled" did you or Rob Sherman assure that this money was given to an organization that was free of sexual or theological (or Atheological) discrimination to help the youth, or was victory declared when the grant was stopped and nothing was done to help the youth? Many of Alton's youth desparately seek a structured organization, many have found that in street gangs, drive by shootings were a common event. Again, what happened to the money? Did it end up helping Alton's youth? I understand your first amendment right to do what you did, but do you also have a humanist duty to assure the money was used to help kids in a way that satifies your purpose?

Ah, seems like old times "... the more things change, the more they remain the same..." seems like just a few months ago we were discussing this very topic and I dont think I have seen anyone changing their stance nor would I actually expect it. Ed, you congratulate TJ on having the guts to admit he is gay, yet you quesiton his ethics on staying in Boy Scouts. So you sorta respect him while also labeling him a pariah, isnt there something inconsistent there? Rooster, how did you find out that porpoises participate in gang rape? Not disputing, just interestead in where you came up with that. As my contribution to this thread, I will repeat what I have always said on this matter. Homosexual does not equal Pedophile anymore than Heterosexual equals Pedophile. The Priest that molested me was not homosexual, he was a pedophile. He was never seen in the company of men, only young boys. If you are against Gays in the BSA based on religious principles, I can respect that, its everyones right to associate with whomever they want and BSA is a private institution so membership may be by the rules seen fit by the membership and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the posture that we dont want gays in the BSA to protect the kids. The BSA, this forum, contains stories of supposedly heterosexual males sexually molesting youth. I invite anyone new to the forum who has not discussed the gay issue here to read up in past threads all that has been said (which is a whole bunch) To really protect the youth, I suggest the BSA make a policy of sueing the "heck" out of any Chartering Institution that has a leader molest the youth for not following the program. Is the CO that approves leaders, not the BSA

I may have missed this but are you the scoutmaster of the troop?

While they may look good, I am not sure of the utility of a sheath knfe. I saw my father field dress a 210 pound deer with a three inch jackknife

Merlyn, Maybe I misunderstood you, you write the only reason that BSA started a program that does not base membership on religious beliefs or sexual orientation was because of law suits etc. And you complain it has only been for the last few years. If my above summary is wrong, please correct me. Wasnt the intent of the laswsuits to do just that? TO have the BSA run a youth program that did not base membership requirements on religious beliefs or sexual orientation? You complain the BSA has only made the changes in the last few years, but they made a change. If the BSA admitted gays and atheists into Boy Scouts, would you then complain that it should have been done 20, 10, 5 years ago? The BSA actually started the group that many here on the forum say others should do. Thats is start a youth group where sexual orientation and religion are not prerequisites for membership and instead of congratulating, you claim its not enough. Can you put yourself in the shoes of the conservative members of this forum and see why some feel "nothing ever makes you people (said without malice) happy?" And Rooster, it wasnt the same without you, I am not sure "the gays" whatever organized group that is, it sorta reminds me of the "vast right wing conspiracy" organized to discredit President Clinton ( I am not sure there was ever one, or for that matter was it ever really needed as he seemed to accomplish enough on his own without any help)or the mass Leftist Plot designed to eliminate the constitution and create a nation governed by the UN, you know the New World Order craze? (havent heard where the black helicopters are this month, first it was Montana, then Wyoming, etc) Ok, where was I? Right, the Gays, I havent seen anyway that "the gays" (again whoever they are) want to take over the reins of the BSA. As far as I can tell, the lawsuits, petitions, whatever ask that Gays (and for Merlyn's sake I'll add Atheists) become members, I dont recall any mention of installing an openly gay/atheist member on any national board of the BSA as a demand from any group. And again, OK, I think I know what comes next, first "they" become members, then Scoutmasters, District Chairs, Council Commissioners, Regional Representatives, etc. And then, all the people who fled the BSA when gays/atheists came in will be able to point to the BSA and say "See, didnt I tell you thats what they wanted, they all along wanted to run this great organization" and I will say it wasnt them comming in that caused the openings in scouting's hierarchy, it was all the people who left who created the opportunity for this to happen. At last glance Gays and Atheists are a small percentage of the country's population, although vocal (as is their constitutional right). If they want to take over the BSA it would only be by the implied permission of the entire membership. Of course that could only happen if the BSA changed its membership policies, and that doesnt seem likely, but I guess it could happen. And if it does happen, I hope men and women who believe in scouting dont flee, but remain to deliver the program.

Before we go down the road of too young eagles (12&13) again, lets look at some statistics recently gleaned from other threads. The total number of scouts who make Eagle comprise 4.3% (2001 figure courtesy of Eagle74) of the scouts who joined. To be conservative in this exercise, (and allow my math calculations to be easier)lets say the Eagle rate has climbed to 5%. Based on what I have heard on the forum, maybe 10% of all Eagles are 13 or younger. (the 10% is just a pure guess, but I think its high, let me know what you think) That means out of 200 scouts 1 will become an Eagle at 12 or 13. I dont think 1 out of 200 scouts is worth changing the age specifications, particularly when its not the 12/13 year old Eagle who needs to be examined, its the troop that needs to be reviewed, after all, stuff happens, it can be done.

I want to respond to the vocabulary issue. When I first joined my troop, the language was, for me, intolerable. Apparently the scoutmaster was so inured by it he didnt even hear it anymore. I addressed the scouts that any word they used that I found objectionable they had better be ready to repeat it to their mother with me present. I thought that was the answer, until I heard some of the mothers talking before an event and I decided to go to Plan B. Plan B is the scouts are free to use any word that I use and beleive me, I have a widely varied vocabulary consisting of a veritable plethora, a myriad of adjectives. That cut things down pretty well, and I also learned true self-conrol as I could see the scouts leaning in to hear any expletive I may utter under variuos and sundry situations