OldGreyEagle

I am not a junior leader Our troop generally sets up by patrol in a cluster. Thats a technical term for having a myriad of different tent types close together. They tend to cluster around where the patrol chuck box and fly is, although we do let members of different patrols "tent" together, they cook by patrols. The set up of the camp is determined by the SPL. You can always tell when the troop has new scouts, the phrase "I dont know, ask your Senior Patrol Leader (or Patrol Leader)" is uttered so much that the adults almost get as tired saying it as the kids do hearing it. Eventually it clicks in, until the next camp out. Persnally, as OldGreyEagle and deservingly so as a member of the Wood Badge Bear patrol, I am usually consigned to some far off nook because it is reported I snore (funny I dont hear a thing!) as in "ooh oooh mr GreyEagle, there's a nice flat soft spot over there, over the ridge, beyond the creek, in the next county I think. Personally I would love to have the SPL have all the patrols duty roster in hand before we leave the church parking lot, I would love to mandate that, but as I said I am not a junior leader I can only suggest it, the SPL and PLC have to make that happen themselves.

As I understand it, and I might be wrong, the only thing that goes to national is the Eagle Scout Application. And actually that might not be going either as I beleive our Council's registrar said he send the Eagle Applicaitions electronically over Scout.net (?) now. Our Turn-around time from national is 3-4 weeks, used to be 6-8.

I have heard many opinions on this and would like to get the groups thoughts. I think no, but then again, I could be wrong...

The only reason the project was rejected was because it turned into a fundraiser which is specifically prohibited by the rules. The scout said he couldnt find equipment he thought his troop could assemble. I think that should have been researched out before the fundraiser was done.

My favorite thing to do at an Eagle Board of Review isnt a question that I ask. At the end of the interview, I excuse the scout and then the attendees and I discuss the scout and his answers. If the Committee agees he should be an Eagle scout, the candidate is brougt into the room, I am standing at attention, I ask him, with his full name as written on the Eagle Application, to give the scout sign and recite the Scout Oath. While he talks, I get in front of him, when he completes it, I then shake his hand, in the Boy Scout manner of course, and congratulate him on being the Council's "newest" Eagle. Scouts and scouters often remark its the one thing they remember most, shaking the hand while the scout is proclaimed an Eagle.

We had a Scout propose a Fundraiser, we said no, you cant do that, its in the book, its against the rules. Well, the scout then said, OK, what if I do a fundraiser, take the money and buy a Swingset playground equipment thingie (technical term)for the local park district and have my troop put it together. That concept got approved. Got the write-up back, seems the scout held the fundraiser, researched Playground sets and decided it took a skill level beyond what he could muster to put together and then gave the park district the funds to buy playground equipment. He was surprised when I said that was a nice thing to do, but it wasnt an Eagle project. He and his scoutmaster said it was because what happened fit in the category of "Changes to the Project". Well, it changed alright, to a Fundraiser. Maybe why I want a detailed write-up.

When I said committee, I meant the Advancement Committee. The Scout needs signatures of the sponsoring agency, the Scoutmaster or Advisor or Coach and a Commitee member as well as a member of the Council or District Advancement Commitee member. The Advancement Committee meets once a month to review the proposals. Its after the propsal is approved the scout moves forward. As far as whether or not the project is Eagle worthy, I thought that was the job of the Scoutmaster/Coach/Advisor and Unit Committee member. That they were to guide the scout along and help determine what ideas were good. Now, I am far from a "hard guy" I think, but I have little sympathy for a scout who writes 10 pages on doing a fundraiser or a project that benefits scouting when on page 2 of the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook 18-927B under the heading Limitations it says "...Work involving Council property or other BSA activity is not permitted. The project may not be performed for a business or an individual, be of a commercial nature or be a fund raiser..." This isnt "research", its on page 2 of the resource given to each Life scout. This is following the directions. Now, telling a scout that a project has been done to many times is another story. Unless the project has been done so many times there is a "book" floating around that tells how to do it, or the project is so basic in concept that it requires no original thought by the scout, I dont see a problem in repeating a project, as long as the scout makes it his own. Anyway, any more thoughts?

Rooster, After the scout has completed the project, have you ever seen a scout whose Eagle Project was rejected because it didnt turn out to be an Eagle project? Or at least not in the eyes of the committee? I am torn with this process, I dont want the Eagle Project to be seen as just the 22nd merit badge, its supposed to be much more than that, but I dont want to make it unrealistic either. My vision is a Leadership project that results in added value to the Sponsoring Agency, stretches the Scout's comfort zone, and is a valuable learning experience for the scout. Well, thats what I want, it's getting there that is problem. As Twocubdad is fond of saying, the devil is in the details

Holy Cow Ed, did you have a major epiphany? You support First Class First Year now? What argument turned you around?

Hey, between Memorial and Labor Days white spats are always appropriate

You can find the Eagle Project book at http://usscouts.org/clipart/ScoutDoc/Eagle/eprojwbk.rtf How can you answer the questions in the project book on two pages?

So, how long are the Eagle Project Proposals in your area? As District Advancement Chair I see a huge disparity in quality of project write up. Most are done well with an average 8-10 pages, some are very detailed and some are 2 sheets long with very little detail. I get back to the 2 pagers and say we need more. I can tell the scout is frustrated when I say I need more detail, and sometimes I get frustrated as well trying to explain what is needed without telling the scout what to write Maybe I am expecting too much, how many pages are the write ups in your area? Not the final, but the version that must get approved before the project can start?

KWC57, I used the parable of the prodigal son a awhile back to make a point. As I said in a previous post I am not saying the Troop or Crew should turn its back on the young woman. I just dont see how making her a leader on the Charter at this point in her life furthers Scouting. It wasnt long ago the topic of Cohabitation, such as Eamonn describes was discussed and I thought the consensus was you couldnt have two umarried leaders living together. Maybe its ok now and I just missed the memo. Seems to me the moral high ground keeps moving so much I would swear its located on the San Andreas fault line.

If it was a young man I would feel the exact same way. That the young man wouldnt be a scout, he would have to much to do making a home and fashioning a life for his child. If he and his lover decided not to get married, he would have to be sure he provided financial and emotional support for the innocent he brought into the mix.

I'm sorry, I dont get this. I don't see how having an unwed Assitant Scoutmaster Pregnant is not a bad role model and should/can be a registerd leader. I can't beleive I am saying this, but as has been mentioned many times, there is no specific rule against bestiality loving satan worshippers (ok, maybe its a hyperbole) but if such a Coven decided to sponsor a unit, I think they would get turned down. Ok, she is going to be a unwed mother giving birth to an illegitimate child and I should be pleased to know she even has a part-time job"? If she really has her wits about her she needs to be in or had been in vocational training because a part time job dont support a parent and child, at least not where I live. Maybe its different in Guam. I agree with Rooster (I cant beleive I said that). I am not judging her, no one knows her heart. If she is such an asset to the troop, I could see the troop using her to get its paperwork in order and perhaps paying her, she is gonna need the money. I am in no way advocating the Troop or Crew turn its back on her, but to put her on the Charter is beyond the pale to me. I am thinking about a couple high school graduations in the area. Human interest stories abound in the newspaper, WWII Veterans getting their diplomas that couldnt collect them on time because they were in the service, Grandmas graduating with Grand daughers you know the type. The Unwed mother story, how she got pregnant at 16, but with encoragement from her parents and the school, she got her diploma on time. Yip pee Yo Ki Yay. Lets celebrate the unwed mother, lets give her a hand, tell her premarital sex is fine by us. What about the hundreds of virgins who graduated. The ones who said no to sex, the ones who said this is not right. The ones who come from marginally funcitonal families, or no parental support at all. Maybe she didnt make the Deans list, maybe it took every ounce of effort to graduate. What are we telling her when we spot light the unwed mother. Golly kid, thats great your not knocked up, but hey, this other kid has a story. She gets the spotlight. So the freshmen, the sophamores, every kid in the school knows hey its OK to have sex, lets see if I can get pregnant, I want all this attention too, she got, I want it too. The kids in your Crew, the kids in the Troop, they can say hey, you know Mr Matuawarrior, he says we should follow the Scout Oath and Law, but if you dont, its ok, he lets you become a leader. Guess I can screw up pretty big and it will be ok, have sex, take drugs, that morally straight stuff is all for show its really not for real. I admit I can be stubborn, but you are really going to have to convince me on this one

Thank you Scoutldr for stating what I wanted to better than I ever could

Captainron, In the past some have tried to keep threads on subject, myself included. In the end, I have formed the opinion once a thread is out there, it becomes very much like Forrest Gumps feather, floating here and there and you are never sure where its' gonna land, if ever. The best thing you can do is strap on a helmet and let go.

If you can only retire a flag on June 14, then a whole lot of American Legioners, VFW'ers Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Police and Firemen were wrong in our county last Sept 11th when we retired American flags in remembrance of 9/11/2001. Worked so well, we plan on doing it again. The only thing I have ever seen on retiring a flag is according to Title 36, section 176, of the United States Code: "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America;" Paragraph K of this same section, states: "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning." Any day is a good day to retire an Ameircan flag if it is done with dignity and respect.

Somebody pinch me, I must be dreaming, Its alright to have an unwed mother in the troop as an official leader? Why are Gay leaders not allowed in Boy Scouts? It's my understanding that its because it has been determined by the BSA that Gays do not present an adequate role model, but a pregnant unmarried woman does? So sex before marriage is not a problem? Is that what is being said? If it was nice gay guy, then he would be banned, but she is ok? I dont see the disconnect, whats the difference? Is this being consistent?

The issue was danced around about as much as you could, so I will ask straight out, is she married?

Our Council recently had its second annual Venture Crew Rendezvous. Our Crew decided to kick the menu up a notch. This was my favorite menu for a campout yet. Saturday Breakfast: Crepes stuffed with Whip Cream and Strawberries or with sausages Home made Doughnuts Crepes is just a fancy name for a thin pancake. Make the batter a little looser than normal and you will get a thinner pancake. We had a large container of Cool whip. We rolled strawberries up in the crepes after coating them with the cool whip. We also had sausages that we wrapped in the crepes as well We took a pot, filled it with 1 1/2 inch of vegetable oil and out it on a propane stove on low heat. Then we took a few containers of Poppin Fresh Biscuits, cut the already section dough bits in quarters and fried them in the oil. After they turned a nice golden brown we put them in various ziplock bags, one had powdered sugar, once had hot chocolate drink mix and the other sugar and cinnamon. For lunch we had 3 dozen clams that we boiled and diped them in melted butter and we deep fried pheasant breasts. Also on hand was Shells and Cheese (distinctly not Maccaroni and cheese, they were shells)Dessert was more strawberries and whip cream. DInner was a Pig Roast hosted by the Council, we had roast pig, potato salad, coleslaw, hot dogs, etc. It was great. Breakfast on sunday was a compromise. Our Advisor wanted to do Eggs Benedict. The youth thought that might be to much, so they settled for Egg McMUffins. (you Emeril wannabees following this?) We fried eggs in a circular form, made canadian bacon, put the eggs and bacon on an english muffin with a slice of cheese and Voila, Egg McMuffin (hope Mickey Dees dont sue me, I didnt use that copyright thing. Of course the adult mixed up some instant hollandise sauce and had his Eggs Benedict anyway. I guess an Egg McMuffin wasnt as intimadating as Eggs Benedict. We were the talk of the outing food wise, and it didnt take any longer than "normal" food(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

One of my Woodbadge Tickets was to develop a resource book for planning Courts of honor, if you send me your Email address, I'll send you the book, its 138 pages long

JB, I understand the situation in my troop is unusual. The COR is the Pastor of the church and did serve as Troop Treasurer. It does help his son is a Life Scout in the troop as well. My comment was sorta tongue in cheek. Going to the COR shouldnt be considered going outside the troop, after all, as has been gone over here, its the COR that gets to approve or deny leadership positions in the unit. WHy wouldnt you tell the COR if you have concerns, especailly those witnessed by youth and adults alike

I may need clarification on this, but I thought the COR (Charter Organization Representative) was part of the troop. I know our regularly attends committee meetings. If pointing out errant behavior of another gets you a warning about your son, maybe that leadership change you are contemplating is the best choice. I just hate to think of the all the times on this forum where the apparently good guy is the one to leave while a diseased group of individuals get to run a program wearing Boy Scout uniforms

There is an old song, "if there is a rock and roll heaven, you know they have a hell of a band. Well, I know there's a Scouter Heaven, and they have a hell of a staff, and its one stronger