OldGreyEagle

I checked the web for stories on the whole Skokie thing. I guess the years do play tricks on you, it wasnt a Nazi who quit after the the whole thing was over, it was Aryeh Neier, head of the ACLU at the time and David Hamlin, head of the Illinois ACLU at the time. Both men said that defending the Nazi's had nothing to do with their resignations. And you are right, the Nazi's never marched in Skokie, as I read the recap, I think it was because it was very likley no Nazi would emerge from Skokie alive. Again though, that may be an old mind adding color to an awful situation

While the symbols of eggs and rabbits are used in the commercialization of Easter, in the church I attend I can assure you there are no eggs or rabbits or facsimiles thereof. I see the Easter Bunny just as Sants Claus, a commercial symbol, but by no means any part of the religious signifiance of the events. I had fotgotten about parade permits and associated fees, that does explain that and I remember the ACLU helping the American Nazi Party goose step through Skokie. I also understand the ACLU helped the Nazi's because it was an issue of constitutional rights which is the ACLU's mission. For those who werent in the Chicago area when this occurred, mid 70's I think, or are too young to remember, here is what I remember: Skokie is a predominantly Jewish suburb northwest of Chicago. I remember in the late 50's and during the 60's riding the bus to Grandma's house. The route took us through Skokie. The first time I can remember I made the trip was mid summer, and most of the people, men and women and even some older teens were wearing shorts and short sleeved shirts/blouses. Almost all of the people had a series of numbers tattooed on either their arms or legs. I started to point at a lady sitting across from us who had a tattoo prominently displayed, just a series of numbers, before I could ask "Mommy what's that?" a hand covered my mouth and my finger pointing hand was jerked down with a force I had never before felt from my mother. I was in such shock I didnt say a word until I we got off the bus and started to cry. When we got to Grandma's, my mother and grandma tried to explain the Holocaust to me. All I got from it was it was bad, and these people had gone through it. And it was through this village in the mid 70's that the American Nazi party wanted to March. Skokie refused, but the Nazi's sued and the ACLU were on the Nazi's side. The Nazi's won, as it is their consitutional right of freedom of assembly. So these survivors of the Holocaust, people whose families and lives had been destroyed were treated to the sight of black SS stormtrooper uniforms and tan shirts as well protected by law marching in their community. As a side note, and Merlyn help me out if I am wrong, I remember in the aftermath of the march, the head of the Illinois Nazi party resigned, seems the ACLU lawyer who helped them get their parade permit was Jewish, the leader resigned in shame that a jewish person helped him

Merlyn, you are right in your statement Christmas and Easter had their dates set to coincide with pagan holidays, but the origin of the celebrations are completely different from each other so I dont follow the statement these two holidays were orginally pagan. But while on the subject of holidays, how does the city of New Orleans get to spend all the money it does on the promotion, celebration of and clean-up of Mardi-Gras. New Orleans reroutes traffic, cleans up after parades etc all at the taxpayers expense for a notably christian holiday and I havent heard any group say that such an outlay is unconstitutional. What are you views on the city of New Orleans supporting a religious holiday? There may be lawsuits pending that I am unaware of

If a spouse has to ask for a definition of "overactive", then the other spouse is.

So Ed, are you saying that there are some kids who just can't be reached? Especially at Cub Scout age?

and here I thought Bob was pointing out how the "Directing" style of Leadership is truly useful only on safety related issues.

as any true fan of waterparks knows, the Schlitterbahn is actually in New Braufels, I guess Bob's mind is still on vacation and he wasnt being pedantic

SM406, I know what you mean, I have recounted this before but it fits here. On a campout an older scout was being mildly berated for his appearance (no uniform was required for this time period) the scout had on baggy cargo pants and a huge hockey type sweater, the pants were of course 3 inches or so below his waist with boxers on display. The ASM doign the berating was talking about how silly it looked and the scout said he wore his clothes like that because then " the ladies would know he was stylin'". I then broke into the conversation and asked if truly the reason he looked like that was to attract girls, and I then shocked the ASM by saying, "Ok, I'm in" The previously berating ASM wanted to know why I approved of the style of dress, I told him I didnt approve of the style, but as Mrs GreyEagle has pictures of me in a permanent, 3 inch stacked heels, elephant bells. polyester disco shirt, leisure suits featuring colors that would qualify as sufficent coloring for hunters in 9 states, a black cape trimmed in red satin, a white silk formal "puffy shirt" with a velour bow tie that must have been 6 inches wide, ( not all the same time you understand) I really try not to mock youth fashions. At least both scout and ASM laughed, I was intrumental in giving them common ground to share, my fashion sins.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ContinentalDivide-1004691/preview.php Mr Steele, the name of the movie you are searching for is "Continental Divide". For me, Bushwhacked with Daniel Stern is the movie, you can count all the YP violations and have a huge laugh besides

It Happened one Night with Claudette Colbert and Clark Gable Any of the Topper Movies Any Marx Brother Movie Any of the "Road" pictures with Bob Hope and Bing Crosby The Great Gildersleeve Phantom of the Paradise

Golly Gosh Dang it Eagledad, thats just what I was gonna say, well not maybe just like that, but very close to what I wanted to express although I would have been much more obscure and obtuse.

The Venturing program IS COED and has its own set of YP principles and I assure you it does not involve placing 17 year old boys in tents with 14 year old girls, thats as imbecilic as any suggestion I have run across here. The Venturing program has been operating for moer than a few years and if we were producing unwed mothers I am sure the media would have grabbed onto that as fast as any sandal they have ever come across. And to even hint about an unwed mother merit badge shows sexism in its most ugly form, why recognize only the mother, I think the father had something to do with it, why not recognize him as well? Its as crude attempt at humor as I would expect from a 12 year old. How does any of this tent mate discussion fulfill the mission of the Boy Scouts: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. To see such things posted is very dissappointing

As commented on several threads, I am a medical worker, if there is one thing I learned, its surgery is always the final, not the first option and I am not a good anesthesia risk.

Boy led means boy lead, it cant mean boy lead until the adults have had enough and step in. I was acting scoutmaster on a cabin campout last winter. The cabin was split in two rooms, adults on one side, scouts the other. Friday night lights out was 11:30. At 12:30 the scouts hadnt settled down, I opened the door to the youth side and called for the SPL and the PLs. When they came to the adult side, I asked them what they were going to do to get the other side quiet. They said they would handle it. They went back and did. Still not sure what they said, the only direction I gave them was it had to follow the scout oath and law (couldnt duct tape their mouths shut, etc) and whatever they did had adult backing. No adult ever addressed the scouts that night to be quiet, the youth leadership did it.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

what do you expect from a group that introduced the concept of the venture patrol in a boy scout troop, designated by the strip that says Venture worn above the Boy Scouts of America strip on the right side of the uniform and then soon thereafter introduced the new program of Venturing, a totally different program from boy scouts with the green shirt, etc and then doesnt understand why anyone is confused

Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP), its looks like a jet fighter oxygen mask, always blows room temperature air in my face so I dont snore, course if I try walking around with it on, it scares the little guys. It is considered DME, and if you dont know what that means, its ok, means your insurance has to buy it for you, if you are lucky. I make the point about room temperature air because the first time I used it on a campout was a winter cabins thing. It was quite toasty when I went to sleep, but in the corner where the outlet was was a far piece from the fireplace which went cold and at 4:00am I had 40 degree air blowing in my face (Brrrrr) A bit of advice Cobra, dont get old(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Are you talking adults or kids? As an adult, I have sleep apnea, from what I am told, I do pretty good at night, although I have never heard it. Normally I sleep with a CPAP machine which takes care of the snoring as long as there is an outlet somewhere, of course the machine has a slight hum, but the results make up for it. Of course, on regular (not cabin) campouts I sleep Al fresco, the troop usually designates a spot for me. At summer camp my tent is usually the closest to the latrine so no matter on dark or foggy it is, the kids can hone in on my "sound beacon", otherwise its generally this: "Hey Mr GreyEagle, we have just the spot for you, its over there, in a clearing, just cross the stream, turn right, walk 50 paces and turn left and go a 1/4 mile or so" No problem

Ok, it was Socrates, or at least attributed to him, the first time I heard it was at the OA Scoutopia exhibit at the 2001 Jamboree. I read it at a recent Court of Honor, to remind adults that the younger generation is usually thought of as inferior to the present. When you think of the generation, the Gay Nineties with Straw Boater Hats, the Flappers of the 20's. the Zoot Suiters of the 40's and Greasers of the 50's and Hippies of the 50's and Disco Dancers of the 70's its each generation's job to shock the previous the generation and establish their own identity. David Bowie made Alice Cooper, Kiss and Ozzy possible who then made Marilyn Mansion possible. Each generation takes it up a notch, (not sure I wanna be the guy to follow manson. I guess my point is, no matter what we think of todays youth we need to be sure to remember that they are youth and we as leaders and adults need to guide them, as we had adults guide us poor pathetic wretches in the past(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers. Came across that quote recently, do you agree or not?

Having been to several IEP (Individual Education Plan) with my learning diaabled son, and he is learning disabled in the sense he doesnt learn like the norm, he is much more visual that auditory, meaning a straight lecture bores him out quickly while hands on and visual presentation hold his interest. The fact he is dyslexic doesnt help either. Anyway I digress, in all the IEP meetings we always get a packet outlining the parents rights, and a child in Pennsylvania is enitled to a "Free and Appropriate Education", I will let the lawyers on here translate that

lets try a few on for size, The Eastman Kodak Photography merit badge The Home Depot Home Repairs merit badge The Bass Pro Shops Fishing merit badge The REI Camping merit badge The Nike Athletics merit badge I dont think I like any of the, leads to all kinds of questions, can I use my Ozark Trail tent when doing the camping merit badge, what if I use Adias on the baseball team... We have enough commercialization in our lifes as it is, we name sports facilities after the sponsor, Safeco Field, the United Center, etc. I think the Boy Scouts should not sell out. On the other hand, if the traditional methods of support (United Way, Corporate Donations) shrink and its either severly effect the program or do it, it may be a way out. You know, having the General Electric Electicity merit badge could work, or the "crocodile hunter" nature merit badge or Mack Truck Truck Transportation merit badge might be ok. I dont like the idea, but I could see why it might become a reality.

Sparkie, how far from Loyola are you? In another thread, the one on punishments i made reference to having experience at a tertiary care burn unit, it was Loyala that I was talking about, first avenue maywood park. They got the worst cases you could imagine

Thank you Eisely, thats what I was trying to say

Well, I guess your boss can "punish" you anyway he wants, its the scouts we should not punish

Not sure if this should be claimed a victory by the ACLU. As I understand it, the property is open to be used by anyone. The Boy Scouts have pledged to spend over a million dollars improving the property and that is beyond what they have done so far. So they pay the city a dollar a year in a lease, and the community, any member of the community, whether theist, atheist, homosexual or heterosexual gets to use the property. Merlyn, I dont understand, if the property was being restricted by the Boy Scouts to only religious sects, or whites only, or something like that I could see the issue, here I dont. OK,the ruling has been made, lets say the Boy Scouts vacate the premise, now the San Diego taxpayers must keep up this property that it used to spend only a dollar a year on, are the increased taxes on the Atheists and gay population worth all this? Again, use of the land was not restricted.