OldGreyEagle

Could be not all the parents of Cub Scouts are chuch members, perhaps an Insurance Thing? Anyway, as a private organization it would appear the church is free to associate with whoever it wants under any conditions it wishes followed.

While perhaps out of reach for a single scout, a nice gift certificate for dinner for two and any associated baby sitting would be nice as well

Often on this board you will read about the possibility or the reality of an adult being a "mentor' to a youth. There is nothing in the rule book, and i know Bob White will correct me if I am wrong, but rather I think he will agree with me about having an Ex-SPL " "mentor" a new SPL. You give him direction, you give him guidance and he gives you a fresh perspective on issues. Together you will be stronger than alone, and even stronger than the mere sum of you two, (look up symbiosis)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

CRANEACE what is your exact role in this situation?

Isaac Asimov And nothing teaches "Might Makes Right" faster than a boot on the neck in the playground, just what I want future generations to know

I think baseball players "Hone" rather than bone bats, in any case usually it invovlves sanding them, no it doesnt make them any harder, but then they can tell where on the bat the ball hit if the bat is all smooth. Least thats what I heard.

In FOG's defense, I think one out of two doesnt constitute bragging

I dont know if an Eagle rank can be taken away by a single phone call, but to whip a really dead old horse of an analogy, you are barking up the wrong tree. I would suggest a single phone call to BSA headquarters in Irving, Texas would serve you better that using this forum. We have a bunch of good intentioned people trying to give advice and divine the situation, but you should really be talking to the horses mouth. I cant find a phone number, but I think if you tried directory service for Irving, Texas you could get one. Then again, I am sure other readers will be posting numbers after they read this. This situation is one that calls for immediate real actions and as helpful as this forum is, it doesnt replace real official action and thats what you need.

Splices have been and continue to be a mainstay of the pioneering merit badge, the most "scouty" of all the merit badges, at least in my opinion, and I think it should be Eagle required. Course thats only my opinion, I could be wrong. Is there a way to find out the number of requirements for First Class say in 1965 versus today? It would be fun, I know the morse code/semaphore requirement is gone, the stalking thing is gone as well as the silent swim. Actually, since I dont remember which requirement is which, How many total requirments were there from tenderfoot to first class versus todays route from Scout to First Class, would be an interesting comparison

As far as the subject of this thread, it may be time for the Who, Where, What, When and How as I dont think we are talking about a ficitonal case(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ed, I guess one of the real problems with just having text is you never get the inflection of a voice, the wry wrinkle of an eyebrow and the total abscence of any hint of what is meant to be ironic or sarcastic. By looking at just what you post, I would think you were a total reactionary who pines for the days when a scoutmaster could flog wayward scouts, control their lives and generally run roughshod over them until they were molded into what YOU thought was the very model of manhood. Boys who object to your style are thought of as unworthy and wastes of skin. So when Bob posted what he did, I thought, oh, Bob and I think along similar lines. Now you have corrected that thought. THank you for straightening me out.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/554.html try this for Bone Up origins

Where in Maine are you? I would like to sit in on a few discussions with this "guy"

WOW, when you consider it, when was the last time this forum agreed on anything? Maybe there is hope yet

Ty, Good question, as with many of societies conventions, many continue on long after the reason for them are no longer obvious. (every thing from this point on is from "what I heard" I dont claim it to be absolute fact, just "as I understand it") Standing when a person comes in the room, comes from the time when a person didnt sit before royalty. No one sat in the prescence of the King until the King granted permission. It became a fashionable action to stand when someone you respected came into the room. Your standing confered your respect, you thought of them "as a King" or at least higher in standing than yourself. And as youngsters are supposed to honor their elders, children are supposed to rise when an adult enters the room. And men rise when a woman enters a room. At this point its good manners, the rest of the historical legacy has faded. Why do we shake hands? Why do you rise for the 7th ining stretch? Why do you rise for the playing of Handel's Alleluis Chorus? Why do you open a car door for your date (watch that one, it could backfire on you) Why do you chew with your mouth closed, not talk while "your mouth is full" and work from the outside in when choosing flatware at a formal dinner Why do you "flic a Bic" at a concert? All of these items and countless others come under the heading of Manners, and while some of them dont make sense, and others may seem silly, a social "faux pas" maybe deadlier to a career than technical incompetance. As you mature, observing manners may make a difference in your life, maybe not to you or your contentemporaries, but to those older it may make a big impression.

I think it means the people on the Board of Review have no clue what they are supposed to be doing. The objectives of a Board of Review is to make sure the scout has done all he is supposed to do to earn the rank, to see how good an experience the scout is having as a scout, and to encourage the scout Holding up advancement to discover the hidden meaning of the star is sheer stupidity. Its clods like these people that totally screw up the scouting experience for scouts. Then again, maybe being on a BOR is the only time they feel like they have power and have a need to really stick it to someone. In any case, I hope he finds the meaning, sure hate to lose a scout because of such an asinine task.

As somewhat of a child of the 60's, I come from an era when flying the American flag was taken to mean you were some kind of Neo-Fasicst far to the right of Attila the Hun fanatic so when I see American flags flown today, I cant beleive how far we have come. I also cringe when I see a cloth flag flown from a stick on a car that is 2/3's its original size and so worn its colors are more pastel than original. I appreciate the gestures people make with the flag, but I do wish they would follow the proper procedures when displaying it. So, the quandry is should I enjoy the flags I see, or insist they be displayed right, I think I will just enjoy them. If the current tradition of displaying the flag continues, I will start talking flag code after awhile, like 5-7 years after from now

Actually either 2 adults go on the outing, or the patrol goes alone, no outing can take place with only one adult. The fee? yeah, well you must have missed the email, yeah thats the ticket, you should have gotten an email telling you I am the, the, the Treasurer of this site, yeah yeah, thats right, now all you have to do is send me 100 dollars in small bills, yeah yeah thats right, thats the ticket or you can send me a check made to my, my, wife, yeah Morgan Fairchild...

I think what this thread needs is a good song, now this should be sung to "Away in a Manger". For those not familiar with this tune, here is a link to a MIDI file of it: http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/a/w/awaymang.htm I learned it as the Scouting Anthem, although I have no idea how accurate that is. A scout is a young man who lives by a code,To protect his honor, and take the high road,He faces temptation, but doesn't give in,The scout law gives him the foundation to win. A scout is trustworthy, he's loyal, true blue,Helpful, friendly, courteous to me and to you. Kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty every cent,A scout is brave, clean, and reverent. A scout is helpful to all those in need,Reward he seeks not, it is just a good deed,He's friendly to people, all races and creeds, A trait that he knows that the world sorely needs. A scout is courteous, says "please" and "thank you", It's something he learned as a child to do,He is also kind, he's not spiteful or snide, It's strong to be gentle, he knows deep inside. A scout is obedient of rules that are there,And works from within to change those deemed unfair,He's cheerful, he smiles, looks for the bright side,And helps dry the tears of others who've cried. A scout is thrifty, of his goods he takes care,And protects the world, and the things God put there,He's brave, but not foolish, does not pick a fight,But always defends what he knows to be right. A scout is clean in thought, word, and deed,Helps others to learn and to share these beliefs,He is always reverent of our God above,Reaches out to others to share His great love. On my honor I will do my best,To God and my country, to face every test,To obey the Scout Law, help others always,Be strong, and be wise, and morally straight. A scout is a young man who's lived and who's dared,To always help others, and to be prepared,Come join the adventure, like others who knew,A good turn done daily, the world does renew. Scouting makes the future a bright thing to view!

Bob, you never saw "minority report" with Tom Cruise?

I dont see the Episcopal church having a gay bishop as a problem with Episcopal churches chartering BSA units. Now, if the gay bishop wants to become a registered leader, I guess that would make things very interesting. I see this the same way as a VFW Post who has an Atheist Post Commander, as long as the BSA rules are followed there is no problem. As soon as a Venture Advisor (see other thread) decides to amend the rules as they pertain to her crew then there is a problem.

I guess there must be something pathologically wrong with a group of people who love whipping the same old dead horse, but whip away I shall: Ed, I guess the point, issue, or question isnt whether or not you, I , Bob White, et al would consider a scout active, its whether or not the scout has met the requirements. If indeed a scout can make First Class by showing up 10 times to troop events then he is active enough to be First Class if all the requirements are signed, the Scoutmaster conference has been done and the Board of Review completed. Its not the Ed Scouts of America, or the OldGreyEagle Scouts of America, and even not the Bob White Scouts of America. Its the Boy Scouts of America and we as leaders pledged/pledge ourselves to follow their rules, not the rules we want to have.

If a scout is "active" enough to make it to Star, then he has been "active" enough for the BSA. I dont see the issue.

Ed, if you cant add to or take away requirements, why is the issue of a scout "only doing whats in the book" such a tough pill for you to swallow? How would you like to define "active"?

twocubdad, Where the scout unit meets isnt the issue. Merlyn has said that over and over. If a government building is open for all types of groups, there is no problem. If the building was open only for Roman Catholics, then that would be wrong. The issue is whether or not governmental units can hold a Charter for a scouting unit, not merely let the scouts use the building as it allows any other group to meet. As a Chartering Organization the governmental unit "owns and operates" the program as has been stated. The Chartering Organization Representative is charged with the selection of adult leadership, these adults leaders must exhibit qualities as required by the BSA. They must be religious heterosexuals among many other things, but the religious part is Merlyn's issue. A governmental unit, prohibited by law not to discriminate by race, creed, sex ect. could have a hard time turning down the application of a avowed Atheist. By BSA rules, the Atheist cant be a member, but by law, the governmental unit, represented by the Charter Organizaiton representative cant discriminate by creed, or abscence of one. Thats the issue. How can a govermental unit, prohibited by law to not discriminate based on religious beliefs, or lack thereof "run and operate" a group that requires religious belief as a core value. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)