OldGreyEagle

Ed, are the Aims and Methods the same? Is the Mission Statement the same? What is the difference?

A big thank-you to Mark Noel for taking us away from the great sherry debate, can you beleive we have spent 8 days on it and nothing else??? I wondered how long it would take to have another topic come up. Here's another topic that should take off, What are George W Bush's chances for re-election, in your opinion of course? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

If you will permit me, I would rather not have the Venture section of the Forum become embroiled in the same silly stuff that occurs in other secitons. First, let me say our Crew has been around for almost 4 years and we have had two presidents, both girls. The Charter President is attending Smith right now and is not very active. Another one of our female members was ScoutCraft director at Summer Camp and hosted two "Outposts" every week, Wilderness Survival and Canoe. She is pushng for more backpacking trips specifically to cover the Backpacking elective. She told me that one thing she learned over the summer was that personal hygiene was overrated and not showering every day is not a bad thing. Our Council has an established Council wide Crew Council, the three officiers? all young ladies, (and BTW all from the Crew which I am happily allowed to serve) When I see our Crew, I see youth members, not boys and girls, all have strengths and all have limitations, but gender has little to do with either. If I may, I have scipted out the natural conclusion of the Trail Pounder/Campaholic debate: CAMPAHOLIC: Anything you can do I can do better ..... .I can do anything better than you TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can, yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: Anything you can be I can be greater ......Sooner or later I'm greater than you CAMPAHOLIC: No, you're not TRAIL POUNDER: Yes, I am CAMPAHOLIC: No, you're not TRAIL POUNDER: Yes, I am CAMPAHOLIC: No, you're not TRAIL POUNDER: Yes, I am, yes I am TRAIL POUNDER: I can shoot a partridge with a single cartridge CAMPAHOLIC: I can get a sparrow with a bow and arrow TRAIL POUNDER: I can live on bread and cheese CAMPAHOLIC: And only on that? TRAIL POUNDER: Yes CAMPAHOLIC: So can a rat TRAIL POUNDER: Any note you can reach I can go higher CAMPAHOLIC: I can sing anything higher than you TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can CAMPAHOLIC: Anything you can buy I can buy cheaper ......I can buy anything cheaper than you TRAIL POUNDER: Fifty cents CAMPAHOLIC: Forty cents TRAIL POUNDER: Thirty cents CAMPAHOLIC: Twenty cents TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can, yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: Anything you can say I can say softer CAMPAHOLIC: I can say anything softer than you TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can, yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: I can drink my liquor faster than a flicker CAMPAHOLIC: I can do it quicker and get even sicker TRAIL POUNDER: I can open any safe CAMPAHOLIC: Without being caught? TRAIL POUNDER: Sure CAMPAHOLIC: That's what I thought (you crook) TRAIL POUNDER: Any note you can hold I can hold longer CAMPAHOLIC: I can hold any note longer than you TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can, yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't - yes, you can CAMPAHOLIC: Anything you can wear I can wear better ......In what you wear I'd look better than you TRAIL POUNDER: In my coat CAMPAHOLIC: In your vest TRAIL POUNDER: In my shoes CAMPAHOLIC: In your hat TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can, yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: Anything you can say I can say faster CAMPAHOLIC: I can say anything faster than you TRAIL POUNDER: Noyoucan't CAMPAHOLIC: YesIcan TRAIL POUNDER: Noyoucan't CAMPAHOLIC: YesIcan TRAIL POUNDER: Noyoucan't CAMPAHOLIC: YesIcan TRAIL POUNDER: Noyoucan't CAMPAHOLIC: YesIcan TRAIL POUNDER: I can jump a hurdle CAMPAHOLIC: I can wear a girdle TRAIL POUNDER: I can knit a sweater CAMPAHOLIC: I can fill it better TRAIL POUNDER: I can do most anything CAMPAHOLIC: Can you bake a pie? TRAIL POUNDER: No CAMPAHOLIC: Neither can I TRAIL POUNDER: Anything you can sing I can sing sweeter CAMPAHOLIC: I can sing anything sweeter than you TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Oh, yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't, can't, can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can, can, can, can TRAIL POUNDER: No, you can't CAMPAHOLIC: Yes, I can

From page 26-27 of the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book "To the fullest extent possible, the merit badge counseling relationship is a counselor-Scout arrangement in which the boy is not only judged on his performance of the requirements, but receives maximum benefit from the knowledge, skill, character, and personal interest of his counselor. Group instruction and orientation are encouraged where special facilities and expert personnel make this most practical, or when Scouts are dependent on only a few counselors for assistance. However, this group experience should be followed by attention to each individual candidate's projects and his ability to fulfill all requirements." Does that help?

I'm all right Nobody worry 'bout me Why you got to gimme a fight? Can't you just let it be? I'm all right Don't nobody worry 'bout me You got to gimme a fight Why don't you just let me be I'm All right

Packsaddle, You are on the right track, every Troop does not need a Crew, or rather, every CO with a troop does not need a crew. An "Area" Crew taking from 3-5 troops (boy and girl) is more likley to have success because then resources from a single enitiy are not as stretched. I think bigger crews, fed by a number of troops is the best way to go

Dave, Can you tell me what you mean? I lost it?

Advancement is one of the eight methods of scouting 1] Ideals 2] Patrols 3] Outdoors 4] Advancement 5] Adult Association 6] Personal Growth 7] Leadership Development 8] Uniform The average non-scouting person on the street knows what an Eagle scout is, and what it means, but how many of the other 7 do you think they would get? One of the things we the scouters could do is talk up the other seven points whether in the troop that we pay dues to whether to scouts or parents and in to the public, always talk about at least two other methods before talking about advancement. Lets not talk down advancement, but rather talk up the other methods,

A "real" Philly Cheese steak with beef so thin you can see through it A huge soft dough pretzel about an inch thick with a snowy coating of rock salt and covered with yellow mustard A chocolate Tastykake A pan of freshly fried scrapple What more do you need?

Sounds like this guy thinks its all over once they get to middle school, and I say, it's not over until we say its over, was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Its not over until We (thats the collective "we") say its over)

Ah, the circle is complete...

See, I understand about Sweetbreads and brain, and pigs feet, they had to use every part of the animal they could, but I have to wonder just how the experimental eating project was done. I mean, I love mushrooms, but I wonder how many people died before they got the idea not all mushrooms are created equal and left over grape juice could deliver quite a kick. And while I wouldnt mind eating in the troop to which Cheffy serves, do you think cooking with "spirits" is againts the BSA Alchohol policy?

"just a note, I think I read somewhere that autopsies on alcoholics almost never find any coronary heart disease." Then again their livers have more scar tissue than the ear of a former Mike Tyson boxing opponent. Rooster and FOG, calm down, clearly gourmet food is not meant for the proletariat else we could afford it. Cheffy, or anybody else quite frankly, can you tell me what possess a guy who is in the woods watching his swine feed then sees one of the animals kick up a big ball of fungus out of the ground and say, get outta there pig, that hunk of moldy whatever is MINE?

Pounder, I cant beleive I am going to do this but I wont post a critique of my Powderhorn experience this week or next. I would like you to complete your course and then we can prepare notes. To give you my impression could "taint" your course, and that should not happen. I'll enjoy my course, you enjoy yours and then we'll talk. Along with any other Powderhorner of course

One half down, one to go. One thing I can say is that the Powederhorn coirse in no way resembles Wood Badge, it would be like comparing Apples to oranges or Boy Scouts to Girl Scouts even. The course is resource oriented and a little skiils and information on the Venturing Program. I was at Ockininkon Scout Reservation in Upper Buck County PA, I dont think I have ever been on more moist campout, if it wasnt raining, it was so humid I soaked every shirt I brought, and I brought a lot!

Which points of Leave No Trace do you think is bad or not needed? I am not saying you are wrong, I just would like to know

scoutldr, Den Chief is a wonderful idea, another possibility is Insructor, the SM can appoint them, right? (I hope). All it takes is for the scout to be proficient in an area, or for that matter willing to study to put on presentations on a subject, Den Chief, Instructor, no problem

Lets see now, be the Senior Patrol Leader for six months, chair all the PLC meetings and be the point man for 6 campouts (one a month) versus Making a knot board that has 30 knots on it, completed in less than a week, (OK, I'll give it 2 weeks and no other scout helps) Be a Troop Guide to the New Scout Patrol, teach the required knots, help 8 11 year old boys through their first campout, then second and third etc. Show them how to pitch tents, cook and buy food and try to keep them in order at weekly meetings for six months Versus A weekend in the troop storage room, marking the equipment with troop name If a POR takes six months to complete, I would think, just a guess now, that a troop leadership project should take almost as long, or at least involve a number of people over an extended period of time, like at least 3 months. These are all guesses as I have never seen criteria for the Scoutmaster approved leadership project and our troop has not done it, it should be fun to see how others do it. I agree the Knot Board and equipment thing sure doesnt measure up to SPL, PL, or any other PLC type position a scout is in for 6 months BTW: I do confess I am having a hard time visualizing FOG getting shouted down anywhere, leastwise at Boy Scouts (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

See, FOG, I like "the Great Scoutmaster of the Scouts" because each scout can say it in a hearty manner and it could be Yahweh, Buddha, Allah, the Great Manitou etc. It can be the center figure(s) of that scouts' faith. In a group of Christians, Jews and Moslems I guess praying to the God of Abraham would be ok, but the Hindu's, Buddhists and Shintoists are out of luck.

Actually, if we could make kits with all the components and video to show how to assemble it and use it, it might become a fitness craze. I have seen far less on infomercials

Well, as I said we have a Council Assistant Commissoner for Venturing, he has asked the District's to appoint a District Assisstant Commissoner for Venturing, so far out of six Districts, one has over a six month period of time. Council support would mean leaning on the disricts to appoint someone The Membership Chairs of all the district's have recruitment plans for Packs and Troops, but the crews are on their own. The Council Training Chairman and District Chairmen do not place Venture training either or adult or youth on the calender although Cub and Boy Scout activities are listed. They have been sent the dates, but they dont show up on the calender. Last year our council had its first University of Scouting, in the literature a leader could take classes from the College of Cub Scouts, College of Boy Scouts, and Junior College of Venturing. Is that what you call a subtle, subliminal message? Council support would be to assure Assistant Commissioner's of Venturing would be appointed in each District. The Rectuiment plans of each District would require a section on crews and the training calender would have Venturing training listed. That would be support, at least thats what i think

Pomp and Circumstance by Elgar and an old time favorite: Boy Scouts of America Words and music by Jack Combs and Jimmy Clark We're the Boy Scouts of America, Scouting for things anew. Our Activities lead to victories in all we set out to do. We're the Boy Scouts of America, We plan hand in hand each day, To do better than need be done till all our goals are won champs with a winning way. We're loyal to purpose and integrity, Pledged to the Scout oath eternally, With verve and conviction we sing our song to keep America strong. We're the Boy Scouts of America, And this we have to say, Join us and We'll stand beside you, beside you all the way. The Boy Scouts of America will stand beside you all the way. (I think I send a copy of the song if you send me your email address, as long as no lawyer here says I cant)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Heck, we have kids come to meetings after a baseball or soccer game, and they put the shirt on in the car, if the youth can do it, why not us?

Rooster, I think I have it, its kinda like when you hear the pledge to the flag or the scout law repeated like the drones of a Grade B horror flick. You do want to have more emotionally uplifitng prayers, I can understand that.

The discussion on the VLSC brought up this idea and I thought it deserved its on thread How supportive is your Council of Venturing? how knowledgeable are the Council level Volunteers of the program and is Venturing is seen as a viable program." Currently I have to rate our council in the cant tell for sure category to moderatley supportive Now, in my Council, I should add the Venture adults, along with a handful of youth have spearheaded establishment of a COuncil YOuth Crew leadership group and when the youth meet, so do the adults. We do have an Assitant Council Commisioner for Venturing who is trying to get District Assistant Commissioners appointed and at our last meeting the Scout Executive appointed to be the Venture liason to Council showed up. Did I mention we meet in the Council offices? On a sunday night? Heck, maybe Council supports us more than I thought, and just maybe we adults will become "Council" at some point, what is your experience