OldGreyEagle

Our Society has shown that even when parents are complicit, the state stills has control over children as seen when children are taken away from unfit parents or when parents with hold medical treatment (see Utah, although that was extreme and may not have been warranted). Parents who leave children home alone are vilified by the media. The state has an interest in the physical and emotional well being of a child, I just dont see pedophiles encroaching on that.

Cj, I apologize I was not able to communicate my thoughts to you. In the barest essence pedophilia always has a victim and this is recognized by every court, jurisdiction , government branch in the land. A homosexual liason between two adults produces no such victim (open to interrpretation and debate I am sure). While I may get tired of the government or other institutions peering in to bedrooms to assess if what adults consensually do to each other is "right" or "wrong", I dont see society, especially one who does everything "for the kids, after all they are our future" to a point where I want to say enough already the little darlings aren't gods ever allowing pedophilia to not be a crime.

Hey Outdoor Thinker and Campaholic, the crew to which I am attached has a couple of Girl Scouts membes as well. One was a scoutcraft director this past summer at our summercamp and another member worked at a Girl Scout Camp all summer as well. One received her Bronze Venture award and Gold Girl Scout award the other received the Council Venture Leadership award. They are two great happening young ladies who I am totally down with and respect in a far out way, just as it sounds you two are.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

The point is, that when our society, as immoral, corrupt and valueless as some make it out to be, identifies someone who is a proven danger to others, they are put away. Even if the people are certifiably mentally ill. The process isnt perfect, but people who do bad things to other people do get locked up. personally I dont care if they are mentally ill or what, I dont care if they go to an asylum or a prison, as long as they arent out amoungst us. Now, what has this got to do with the price of coffee in Bethlehem? Well, for a long time now, and I am not sure exactly where it started, I keep reading about how homosexuality has been removed from the list of psychological disorders/diseases and how long before the pedaphiles make the case that they arent really bad, they were just born this way and its not their fault, etc. Well, again, I cant begin to tell you my revulsion at equating homosexuality with pedophilia. If you feel homosexuality is wrong, thats your right and I cant debate it with you because you are not going to change and neither am i , but do not begin to tell me that our society will ever accept pedophilia as "normal". No one tried to make the case that Paula Poundstone was just a victim of her birthright. There are Meagan's laws all over the country where convicted sex offenders must register with the police. These are not the signs of a society so depraved that it will sacrifice its children to the cause of civl rights or liberties for the sexual fulfullment of others. Mark David Chapman, John Hinckley and Charles Manson may or may not have been born sociopaths, but it doesnt matter, they are now where they belong as will all child molesters, murderers etc. And its the inept, liberal, goverment wonks who put them there and keep them there. Raising the spectre of pedophilia every time homosexuality is discussed is tossing in a red herring where it dont belong. BSA keeps talking about its gay ban as not a Youth Protection issue, but a role model issue. If thats the debate fine, because I cant remember when an avowed or even closet homosexual molested a boy scout, its always the admired, loving husband of 3 that is cited in newspapers. If you dont want gays in Boy Scouts, Thats one issue, but to equate allowing gays in Boy Scouts as the linchpin that will begin the process that will allow pedophiles free to ply their "trade" wells up words that are not scoutlike so I will just say its "poppycock"

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Lets see, a Boy Scout can be a member of a Venturing Crew, a 19 year old female Venturing Crew Member can be an assistant scoutmaster in a troop, and a Venturing Crew member can be a memeber of a Sea Scout Ship, No reason to beleive a boy scout cant be a member of multiple troops, although he is gonna have to keep kis advancements straight

As I have proven time and time again, I have a superficial knowledge about a lot of stuff, and a firm grasp on very little, so I will again need help with this. Where is Mark David Chapman? Where is John Hinckley? Where is Charles Manson?

I am not sure you will get what you are looking for as the Girl Scout and Boy Scout programs are so different. You could have a Gold Award Girl Scout (higest level) not know a thing about camping because her troop never did (one reason girls join Venturing) It may be better to have a few "shakedown" camps in a place close to home to see what the girls know, they may surprise you. Remember, there are no ranks in Venturing, only awards

Nixon was the one I was thinking of, I knew those with more of a history background would point out if there were more. Related to this is Courtroom procedure, do you really think it means much to a muslim, hindu, etc to swear to tell the truth with his/her hand on the bible? (do they do that anymore? I havent been in a courtroom in a long time and try to stay as far away as legally possible) Was just wondering what an Atheist president would do, would he/she swear or affirm? He/she would have to do something that did not compromise his belief or lack there of system.

Two things, maybe separate, maybe not As I read the calendar, its almost October 1, 2003. I generally dont like to make assumptions, but I figure the earliest this trip can come off is June 1, 2004. Thats 8 months from now. The troop is sure it can't find another willingly participant in 8 months? The money is already paid, if another scout comes in, he pays the amount to the troop, the errant scouts account is credited and all is well. If the troop cant come up with another scout, how about in the district, a boy known to troop members, a brother OA member? What about in the Council? There is no scout in the Council that would like to go to Philmont as a "Provisional" member of a crew? Lets not hack up the errant scout before all options are exhausted. Now, to whose "fault" it is, when dealing with large outlays of cash, such as a trip like this, a monthly or even bi monthly report on the status of their trip account would help eliminate these kind of situations. And you dont have parental permission slip? What if the parents say no, and the kid has the trip fully funded, then what?

Ok you history nuts, and presidential trivia experts as well. Can anyone name one president of the United States (I only know one, there may be others) who never took the Oath of Office? And yes there is a point

Phil, you can read through the threads and learn about my position on gays in Boy Scouts. I do not equate homosexuality with pedophilia and I think its wrong that the BSA does not permit gay leaders. I can tell you that many many leaders feel as I do, those whose opinions are not asked and work quietly to try to change attitudes. And I thought you would be a great example of why the gay policy is wrong. Your story about your son at his first Cub Scout event, you having to say no to being a den leader, all fabulous stuff. You nearly had me, then you have to go and compare the BSA with the KKK. Was that your intent in the beginning? to come to this last post? I support changing the BSA policy, I cannot support you

Oh no Pounder, your sense of humor is dead on, but I have ignored questions like that before and regretted it. I'll put you down in the no council support category (Humor, arrr arrr) Jocularity Jocularity, I love it

What I like best so far with Clark running is some comments I have heard from friends, or rather acquaintance's amd echoed a bit here. After years of taunting the Democrats, or leftists even to put up a "real man" who ever that is, or a patriot or someone who loves our country, the Democrats finally have one and now he is being decried as not being military enough, or to much of a politician. As I remember history, and guys, and you know who you are tell me where I am wrong, but as I understand it, Eisenhower was not as much a brillian military strategist but rather as Supreme ALlied Comander his greatest challenges was keeping Patton away from Montgomery's throat and Vice Versa and keeping the various countries and branches of the military at bay as well. I am not belittling Eisenhower, I am just pointing out a military commander could have a wealth of political experience we dont know about. So rather than attack a mans record, lets see what he has in mind. What are his plans, his stance on issues. if you dont like his stand on an issue, blast it, if he in consistent from one issue to another cream him, but can we talk issues and not past personal history? BTW, when past personal history is an issue (see clinton, either one) then there isnt anything left to do but talk about it, but does Clark have a Clintonesque past? If not, lets talk issues. please

I am not sure if you are pulling my leg, but a Council is number one, the name on your left shoulder at the top underwhich you put your crew number on your uniform. Its the thing that your district belongs to along with a bunch of other districts. Does that help? What can I help you with or did I miss something?

Just back from second weekend of Powder Hown, btps, can you expand?

Well, the two most active advisors are fathers of only child boys, so I think there may have been a culture shock when the crew started with almost a 50/50 split of males and females. And since we started with a mixed group out of the box, it was difficult. It may be a bit intimidating for a 15 year old boy to talk with, let alone express disagreement with a 19 year old woman. And while I may be wrong, I think the females may have structred the by laws to keep themsleves in power as well. I do remember a couple of times the difference between the boy and girls were made quite clear. During one of the initial meetings a date was set for a campout, instantly calenders and date books came flying out of the girls purses to check that date, the boys just sat there and said OK we will go. Another time a potential activity was postponed because it was the weekend before finals and the girls said they had to study. Well, in my history with the troop I had never heard anything like that so all I could do is express my thought that if the girls were as prepared as the boys, and not wait till the last minute to study there wouldnt be a problem. Well those bandages just came off and the scars arent near as bad as the ones I have from the powerpuff sleeping bag comment. All in all I think we have all learned, one member, a girl was almost afraid of the little boys as she put it, last summer she was scout craft director at our camp, as some one once said, the times they are a changing

Lets see, out of your list the one about 10 things the scout has done with the troop is probably the only one that belongs there, and even then if the scout came up with 7 and couldnt think of anything else I would would still pass the scout. How many times must it be stated, A Board of Review is NOT a skills review, its a program review to fond out HOW the scout is doing, not what the scout can do, thats what the advancement process is all about.

I beleive Lyndon Baines Johnson said if nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve, which sounded really cool unless you know WIlliam Tecumseh Sherman first said that almost 100 years before LBJ did. Of course Sherman was quite the sound bite in his day, he also coined the term "War is Hell", its just to bad World Civilization cant see to quite comprehend what Sherman said

As a trained researcher MIGHT say, first define your terms? To a branc new scout troop just starting out, a week end at the local County park might be high adventure especially if it rains. For a troop who has been around a bit, maybe a 3 day 2 night back packing trip covering 30 miles is high adventure and to a Venturing Crew, a week hiking Glacier Naitonal PArk might be High Adventure. It depends on where a troop is in its development. I wouldnt be to concerned about where you are now, but work on where you want to be, how to spread the word and talent to do high adventure, and how to get it done without bankruptcy

Well thank you OT, I did find out that Scouting Thunder is the same tune as Scotland the brave. One of the Crew mambers played it at my son's Eagle Court. Nothng like a Bagpipe to stir the soul

Well, as they (and I am not quite sure who they is)say, Moderation in all things. I dont like the idea of always having paper plates and cups around, when the Crew camps. its personal mess kits all around as we try to follow Leave No Trace (One of our female crew members taught LNT at summercamp)as close as we can. Paper products are a definite problem there. In the troop its another story, paper proudcts abound, and to see the amount of garbage generated would make the Grinch cringe. A lot of the mess can be avoided in preparation, but even there you have to be careful. I remember trying to explain that to pass the cooking requirements of preparing a meal you just cant break open a MRE package even if you use the heater (was I wrong?) Speakig of MRE's they weer quite popular for a few campouts until the scoutmaster outlawed them (pre boy lead of course) as he didnt think cooking skills were enhanced by MREs Cooking is the biggest test of adults standing back, after all, its their food too!

1. Able to take training and apply whats presented 2. Realize there are many ways to "skin a cat" (hope PETA doesnt hear that) 3. Not be afraid of losing the spotlight, the boys are front and center 4. Be willing to let boys make mistakes and fail, as long as no one is in harms way 5. Adapts his/her leadership style to the situation and to the scout involved 6. Carries thorugh on all promises made

Well, Well, OutDoor Thinker, I'll bet before the camp season was over, you were the Princess of the camp. To have someone as outstanding as you in a crew must mean you have excellent and truly superb adult advisors and an incedible dad. Good luck to you

Ohhh, Outdoor Thinker, you dont have to be so formal, I'm OGE, my father is OldGreyEagle. Anyway, a Democratic General... Now isnt that an oxymoron? anyway, I appreciate anyone who can string a sentence together and make sense, a quality not common amoungst the candidates. I would like to know what a candidate is FOR, not what he is against. Dont tell me how bad someone else is, tell me how good you are. here's to a happy political season