OldGreyEagle

SPL_15 What can I say, I cant always follow what you are trying to say, but as I said in another thread, I admire your spunk. I wish there was a way I could help you because it does seem you are handling things beyond what you should, but I admire your nobleness of purpose. This forum will give you many answers, opinions, ideas, etc. AS only you know the situation, you have to evaluate your best course of action. FOllow the scout law in all you do and you will be ok.

Sorry Neil, when someone tells me he is 14 and is thinking of joining a crew and the newly forming crew is trying to decide if they should allow girls in and then within weeks tells the forum he has earned the Bronze award and is very close to the Ranger award, all while he is 14, then I will quesiton it and I think others should too. I like SPL 15, he has a lot of "spunk", I am curious about his troop and crew. I know what the youth in my District do to get Bronze and we havent had a 14 year old awardee yet. He could be the exception. SPL 15, party on!!!

The wishes of the Scouts, through the JLC, comes first.

Thanks Bob, I didnt think it sounded right

How about the infamous no Camo rule, Note, I am not talking about imitating militaty uniforms, which is unlawful.

I agree its not your fight to take on, yet it seems like you are the one in the the line of fire. From what you wrote, you said no other adults will be around, one thing you could do is say that according to BSA Youth Protection guidelines, a single adult cannot be alone with a scout or scout(s). Thats a fact and she needs another adult to attend your meeting. Hopefully that will slow her down until your SM shows up.

Hey SPL, nice to see you get out of the Venture section and move onto other areas. Actually there are a couple of teenagers here, HOPS Scout is one and Outdoor Thinker still qualifies as a teenager for another 6 months or so. BTW, I am not sure I fully understood your answer to a question I asked previously. You are 14 now, yet you have earned the Bronze award in Venturing and you say you are very close to earning Ranger yet your Venture Crew has not yet formed, its just been talked about alot. A quesiton for DSteele, can you earn the Bronze while not registered as a Crew member?

well, its not BSA official, but its OA official http://www.sectionw3b.org/conclave/store/boxers.cfm so BSA shorts cant be far behind, I think there were official 2001 National Jamboree undershorts so we do have that part of the uniform covered. The Met? You mean the Met as in The Metropolitan Museum of Art? YoungSpikedEagle loved it there. Not sure if he would be up to the undie display, but he would go for other things. I hear they have a display on 19th Century China, focussing on the Boxer Rebellion

So does anyone remember the Seinfeld when George, as assistant traveling secretaty, suggests the Yankees play in 100 percent cotton uniforms? How did that one end again?

Arrow of Light in Cubs Eagle Scout Was Assistance Scoutmaster Current Troop Committee member Current District Advancement Chair Current Unit COmmissioner for a Troop and Pack Current Crew Committee Member Current Merit Badge Counselor for Gadening, Citizenship in the Nation, Community and World (And a Good Ol'bear too)

But, WHAT would YOU do for a Klondike bar?

Where in PA are you? I am in Bethlehem, PA next to Allentown and an Catholic and in Venturing

KoreaScouter, Please, Please, its not a "refugee camp" appearance, its an ecletic array of the myraid styles of tenting options on display Leastwise, thats what I tell our troop. As I said much earlier on, the troop has some tents but mostly we use personal tents. It been that way since we joined and no one has brought up buying troop tents.

When you get paid to do Scouting, you are a Professional When you don't get paid to do Scouting, you are a Volunteer When you pay to do Scouting, then you are a Scout.

Gee FOG, with all your talk about the weeniefication of Boy Scouts, I was surprised to see you say that only wrong with cooking was it couldnt be done in a week. Unless it was tongue in cheek, which I could have missed. Next, I was a little disconcerted about the 6 foot thing when Outdoor Thinker told me about it when she got back from Camp School. Then again, if a scout DOES take a header off an over six foot tower and dies or is paralyzed and is awarded millions of our FOS dollars in a lawsuit, how many of us would be mad that the BSA wasnt more safety conscious? Just a thought

To paraphrase Micael Correlone, I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in... Rosster you posted: By the way, Jesus valued children more than men. So, theres another reason to view a crime against a child as being more horrific than a crime against an adult. 1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" 2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 18:1-9 I took valued to be the same as love, maybe that was wrong, I will correct myself to say I cant beleive Jesus values me less as a grown man then he did when I was 5. If I have misunderstood your point, I apologize.

Hey, welcome Dutch and ditto to all thats been said. I cant improve on it so I wont try, but I had to lend my support to the group. What he is doing is wrong .

Well, I can't see Jesus loving me more 45 years ago and his love getting less as I age. I think I am out of this thread

Bob, I am surprised at the whole direction we have gone here, normally I support 100% what you say. I can in no way imagine why I am having trouble explaining my position. I support the idea of Patrol Outings, I find it curious that the BSA which supports Patrol Outings wont allow it on their own property. I agree with you 100 percent, that as adult scouters we are indeed role models. In fact, I will take one last stab at explaining my position: To me having the BSA support Patrol Outings and then not allow them on BSA property is like: 1. Telling scouts to go out and sell all the popcorn they can, and then the scoutmaster doesn't buy a single unit. 2. Telling the scouts to be sure they always wear a full and complete uniform, and then always show up in jeans and a NIKE sweat shirt Telling scouts to do what I say, not what I do Thats the issue, to me this is like the local Cable company telling me all about the greatest features of On Demand Pay per View, and then say, of course, we dont offer it in your area.

I asked my wife about this issue, and she said she would emotionally react more to the murder of a 5 year old than an adult, but that the penalties should be the same. So, I asked her and I admit that her answer is closer to yours than mine. Now, for the third time, and after I answered the question you asked of me. When Jesus talks about children does he mean only the young but could it also mean all that believe?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Proud Eagle, Outdoor Thinker is a female Venture Crew member and even though she is an ASM, she is denied eligibility do to her status as a female youth under 21. I was at the same meeting with Outdoor Thinker, she is the President of the Venture Executive Board, the Council Wide Youth Venturing group. The Council Chair on Training said he had heard from good authority that the OA was going to start to charter Crews, or that they could. It didnt make sense to either Outdoor Thinker or the guy who said it, but he told us thats what he understood.

Ok Bob, this is my last attempt, I have no wish to argue with you. Why does the BSA promote something that is not allowed on its own property?

I guess I didnt explain myself very well. Let me try this again. Lets say I am a private land-owner. I have a couple acres of land and my friend from church asks if his sons patrol can camp on my land without adult supervision. I say, can scouts do that, because I am not aware of scouting policy. I am told scouts can and say sure, that'll be fine. So, a scout drowns. And I as a land owner is sued by the parents of the drowned scout as being irresponsible for allowing unsupervised minors to be on my property. In court the drowned scouts parents lawyer asks me why I would allow scouts to camp unsupervised on my property when the BSA itself doesnt allow unupservised scouts to be on its property. Whether I as the land owner did anything right or wrong I would feel mighty betrayed that the BSA encourages private land owners to do something itself will not sanction. I realize anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything. And the parents suit may be dismissed as having no merit, but why should I allow boy scouts to do something on my property that BSA wont allow on its own property Thats my confusion, if BSA wants patrol outings, why cant they be done on BSA proprty? Actually I want to follow the program. Patrol Outings are part of the program. They apparently are also not allowed on BSA property, thats confusing.

My son, who is now 18, working at one of the Council's Summer Camps as an assisitant Rangemaster (three years on the High School Rifle team)has a urinary stoma. He has to catheterize his stoma every 3-4 hours and sleep pat night with a drainage bag on. Every day he is supposed (!!!) to flush out his stoma with 180 CCs of water (3 60CC syringes) He was born with epispadias, which is a form of extrophy. He never could control his bladder as he flat didnt have the muscles to hold the urine in. He has had many major operations. While he was a very young scout, he had his ureters transplanted from his bladder to his colon so he would defecate urine and stool at the same time. This kept him dry, but it also meant if he laughed loud or was startled, an "accident" was likely. He had frequent kidney infections as well. When he got "old enough" he got his current set-up. The surgeon took the ureters off his colon and put them back on his bladder. Then the appendix was taken and placed on the bladder and brought out to the lower abdominal wall, just below his belt line. Normally he was a gauze patch over it. He was a patrol leader for the 2001 National Jamboree and I was also there as an ASM for another troop. He had one foor locker for himself and another for his medical suplies. His time at camp is interesting too, catheters and urinary bags are hard to explain at 18, heck even at 14, but he does well. He has never had a problem with the other boys, he takes a "this is me" attitude and its accepted. it was tough when he defecated urine and stool, as he just couldnt go "up to a tree" he had constant diarrhea. Its better with the catheter, at least he can go off into the woods like "normal kids". Did I mention he is an Eagle Scout with a silver (highest you can get)palm? All you gotta do is beleive

Sorry Roster, If any life becomes more sacred than any other,then no life is really sacred, its how I feel, I understand your opinion differs. You didn't respond to my thought that perhaps in the eyes of Jesus we are all his children and as children of God all of what Jesus says about children relates to all beleivers,