OldGreyEagle

So in over 100 years, the Pope has only said one thing that the Cathoic Church has said to be infallible, nothing about birth control, divorce, only that Mary was assumed into heaven. Catholics beleive the Pope is infallible only when he speaks Ex Cathedra on manners if faith and morals. So its not like Catholics huddle at the Vatican chamber waiting to see what the Pontiff says today. I understand you have read the bible and that God has revealed himself to you. Is it not possible that another person reading the bible would have God revealed to them, and you both saw the same God, but in different dimensions? You appear to say your interpretation of the bible is THE only way to interpret it and all others arent just mistaken, they are damned. Is that that you are saying?

Very good Rooster, and the last time the Pope. (hint any Pope) spoke "Ex Carhedra" Was?

Rooster, I know you were raised Catholic, can you explain what Ex Cathedra means?

I took the new Wood Badge, on the first day I found out I was to be a Bear (and a good ol'bear too) The first week end I spent camping with my fellow Bears, every day for the six days of WB I camped with my fellow Bears (One lone female even, in her own tent of course, then again we all had tents to ourselves.) Everyday a new Bear was patrol leader, asst patrol leader etc. We had our patrol yell, patrol flag and web site. During the time between the two weekends we had two patrol meetings to work on our patrol project. At my our Districts recent Roundtable myself and a fellow patrol Bear received our beads. One of our fellow patrol members from another District came by to see our Ceremony. How much more of a patrol emphasis was there in the "Good Ol'WB"?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Brad Sullivan, the true scoutleader in Bushwacked will always be my hero. Its not the uniform, way back there was a stigma with being in the High School Band, doesnt seem that bad anymore, and talk about Geeky Uniforms, anybody know how they changed their image?

OMG! is it fair to say that merlyn stole one of my responses? Anyway, Indiana Jones was a very good boy scout now wasn't he? In the 1995 movie Bushwacked ! starring Daniel Stern, a rather forgetable "family" comedy the Stern charactor impersonates an adult leader and takes a group of "Ranger Scouts" on an overnight. While not portrayed as Boy Scouts, there are plenty of similarities in uniform and vocabulary. Now, there is also a charactor, played by Brad Sullivan who is a role model for all scout leaders, least wise I wouldnt mind emulating his outdoor skill and physical condiiton and the kids are portrayed as being pretty clever as well. Its a good movie to show the group and ask where the Youth protetion violations are, but the kids and the real scout leader is portrayed as strong in the 2002 movie Spy Game with Robert Redford and Brad Pitt, the following exchange occurs between Robert Redford's and Pitt's charactor: Redford: (marveling at marksmanship scores) Where did you learn to shoot like that? Pitt: Boy Scouts sir! Now that is the image I want to promote, good skills and proud of where they came.

My son, YoungSpikedEagle tells me there is a symbol which I have forgotten that represents a concept known as "Straight Edge" or "Razor Edge". If I understand it correctly it means No Drugs, No Alcohol, No Sex. Kids take the pledge and are expected to live up to their promise. Has anyone else heard about this, it may only be regional. It might be a good idea if this is a naitonal thing for the BSA to incorporate a temporary (or permanent patch) for youth who acept this challenge. May show we are a little more hip than what is expected and we still keep our values. And I will echo Roosters comment that Boy Scouts is sometimes seen as a big babysitting club by some. And why is that? maybe because adults ARE telling the boys what they can and cant do in far too many troops. Everytime a Troop leans towards being adult run rather than boy lead, it sticks another sign up, "hey we are geeks, we do what adults tell us, we have no minds of our own. we have no self governance" The whole core of scouting according to B-P was the Promise, Oath and form of self-governance. If your not Boy lead, you are going to be perceived as lame. And I will disagree with Rooster a little as well, (What a shock, Huh Rooster?). I dont think you can blame the media for Scoutings image. They may not do us any favors, but I wonder how many troops make it a monthly goal to do something positive for the community and publicize it. How about Quaterly ? Why stay in a position where we have to defned ourselves, lets be aggressive and sell what we do. BTW, A quick afterpost thought. DSTEELE what is the policy about the BSA diseminating information about youth and adult heroism awards? I know they do one a month in Boy's Life, could they put an update on the BSA website about how many were given in a month, year, and for what reasons? Maybe a resource for troops to use when trying to hone Scoutings image(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Just to be accurate, the Pope/The Catholic Church does not oppose birth control, only artificial means there of meaning natural methods are OK (IE Rhythm) It might also be worthy of note that although the Pope, and his predecessors all have spoken out against artificial birth control, no pronouncement against artificial birth control has been made "Ex Cathedra"

Define "We" ?

What do you do about YOUR grumbling and grousing? When you see a problem in scouting. what do you do ? Besides grumble and grouse?

I received my Wood Badge beads this past Wednesday, (Dec 3, 2003) having taken the Wood badge course for the 21 rst Century I would like to point out this gentlemans' opinion is not rare amoung those who did Wood Badge the "right" way. I can only imagine in years to come when other Wood Bagders ask when I took Wood Badge, which is really a veiling of the quesiton was it the new crummy way or the old right way and how I will react. Thank you combsc for reminding me no matter how long or hard I work in scouting I will never be as good as you because you did it right and I didnt

And another soul claimed!!!

It may be the first Eagle in the scouts troop that was deaf, perhaps in the District and maybe in the COuncil, But for the whole USA? Highly unlikley

Hey FOG, what religion forces you to sit in a stuffy old building anyway? As a Roman Catholic I enjoyed two pefectly lovely out door masses during my two weekends of Wood Badge and several other outdoor liturgies during AO, Disrict and Council events. At the 2001 National Jamboree there were several open air religious ceremonies representing several religious sects. And if singing off key is wrong, most campfires I have attended have been very wrong, joyful, uplifitng, but wrong And everyone is entitled to grumble and grouse, the question is, what do you do about ?

On a "gay" thread the ageless issue of Boy Scouts as Geeks came up. A few posters had some ideas on how to improve BSA's image and differentiate between the Boy, and Cub Scout program. I don't think a series of slick fast-paced comercials extolling the virtures and opportunities of scouting saturating the major media markets is due out anytime soon. So, we can all wish and project how wonderful such a national campaign would be and while we are wish'in and hop'in for such. We need to endeavor to persevere and work on the local level. And before you shake your head and say we can't do anything at the local level, think of the status of the Eagle Rank. National has never done (leastwise not that I am aware) a publicity program on how great Eagle Scouts are. The public has picked this up on its own, thorugh personal observation and experience and thats why come colleges and universities prize Eagle Scouts and having Eagle Scout on a resume is usually a plus. So, what have you done to promote Scouting in your Community that works, what doesnt? Lets see of we can share ideas. I need some help from the Poly Sci experts, but isnt whats called a "grass roots ground swell of support" the strongest political force? Why can't we start that grass roots effort to improve Scoutings image and educate the public about the BSA and its programs? If not now when, if not us, who?

I call on Campaholic and Campfire Fairy to defend me(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

OT, While I normally enjoy spririted witty repartee, watch that crack about "getting up there in age" as Myself, Rocket and Mr T are none to far from the age B-P was when he married his beloved Olave

I wonder what the reaction of the scoutmasters and boys who do not want women on campouts would be if they knew B-P specically invited women to be Scoutmasters?

And a child shall lead them... Very Good SPL15, Very insightful

I apologize up front if the language and tone of this post offends anyone, I am using hyperbole to make a point Does anyone remember what the Standford Cardinal was called before they became "The Cardinal" ? (The color, not a bird or embattled Catholic Higher Echelon bureacrat) The were known as The Stanford Indians, Thats who Jim Plunkett and Sonny Sixkiller played for when they attended Stanford and were Quarterbacks I always thought of a Mascot as being something you wanted to emulate, the Speed and Stength of a Bear (Well, Chicago not so much, but they are comming on) The noble manner and values of a Cavalier, ETC. When I think of native American Mascots, I think the intent is to emulate the noble spirit, courage, wisdom and discipline common amoung these people (Chief Noc-a-homa of Cleveland notwithstanding amoung others) However, you had to know this was comming, I can see why Native Americans are sensitive on this issue. When I was a little boy, my mother taught me that if I wanted to play with something that belonged to someone else, I had to ask permission first, and then only after receiving permission could I play with some one else's stuff and I had to stop when the owner asked for his stuff back. If an institution doesn't have Native Anerican's permission to use their culture, their clothes or langauge then these identifying attributes should not be used. It wasnt really all that long ago when the High School in Pekin called its teams "The Chinks", it was changed awhile ago. I guess maybe Cinncinnati wouldnt have minded to much if Marge Schott would have renamed her baseball team "The Nazi Pary" maybe we should learn to laugh at ourselves and the New York Airline Hijackers should take the field next year along with the Chicago Suicide Bombers. And of course, when Honolulu gets a major league baseballteam who wouldnt want to cheer for "The Sneaky Nip Attack" ?

Have a good day(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Gee FOG, You must have missed me jumping up and down in the back of the room waving both arms. There are very few times Bob White posts a simple declarative sentence that you don't try to refute or at least obfuscate. Yet Bob, for the most part, issues a civil rebuttal which you answer until at times the original intent of the thread is unrecognizable. I can't imagine why anyone would take the abuse Bob does unless its because he has a very deep passion for Scouting and I can do nothing but respect it. Everytime he posts here he risks attack, yeah, I would say he is very brave! (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Well Oz, One thing about Scoutmastering that is common the world over is that you can only do the best you can and each Scoutmaster has to decide for himself where to spend his time. The Scouts who stay in your Troop should count themselves lucky.

So, in Boy Scouts are no secret societies, but there are?

Dan, I am not sure where, but we really got off track here, I agree with what you say.