OldGreyEagle

Congratulations Proud Eagle, you have proved long doesnt have to be rambling and that a well thought out cogent disposition of the matter being discussed is possible.

Melody Patterson as Wrangler Jane in F Troop or Deborah Walley as TV's Tammy were my picks

All well and good all, but what does Socrates have to say ?

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/socrates_greek_philosopher.html http://pub18.ezboard.com/fbalkanshellenicforum.showMessage?topicID=953.topic http://www.robertmuller.org/volume/ideas0501.html all the above web pages ascribe the quote to Socrates. And as to what Socrates said, and what he meant, and how it was translated you will have to forgive me if I doubt your Greek translative skills given the whole Golden/Christ thing during which you admitted you were wrong. How do I know you are not wrong again?

While we wait, Wheeler, you seem to favor Socrates, and he was a great mind. He once said I am not an Athenian or a Greek - I am a citizen of the world. So, apparently Socrates would have supported the UN, leastwise he favored world citizenship. If so that makes Socrates a Socialist and all things he said are tainted by his socialistic tendencies which then renders most of your posts which use Socratic quotes as major support null and void.

Wheeler posts "...You run a venturing post with women in it...." Those knowledgeable in the Scouting program know there are two huge holes in this statement. Let me emphatically state that indeed I do not run a venturing post with women. I leave it up to the Forum to explain how I may truthfully make that statement. Wheeler, you seem to favor Socrates, and he was a great mind. He once said I am not an Athenian or a Greek - I am a citizen of the world. So, apparently Socrates would have supported the UN, leastwise he favored world citizenship. If so that makes Socrates a Socialist and all things he said are tainted by his socialistic tendencies which then renders most of your posts which use Socratic quotes as major support null and void.

Before this thread gets out of hand, I thought it might be interesting what B-P complete thoughts on what a scoutmaster should be were now that we have Wheeler's take on it: http://www.pinetreeweb.com/aidstosm-2.htm AS A PRELIMINARY word of comfort to intending Scout masters, I should like to contradict the usual misconception that, to be a successful Scoutmaster, a man must be an Admirable Crichton - a know-all. Not a bit of it. He has simply to be a boy-man, that is:- He must have the boy spirit in him; and must be able to place himself on a right plane with his boys as a first step. He must realise the needs, outlooks and desires of the different ages of boy life. He must deal with the individual boy rather than with the mass. He then needs to promote a corporate spirit among his individuals to gain the best results. With regard to the first point, the Scoutmaster has to be neither schoolmaster nor commanding officer, nor pastor, nor instructor. All that is needed is the capacity to enjoy the out-of-doors, to enter into the boys' ambitions, and to find other men who will give them instruction in the desired directions, whether it be signalling or drawing, nature study or pioneering. He has got to put himself on the level of the older brother, that is, to see things from the boy's point of view, and to lead and guide and give enthusiasm in the right direction. Like the true older brother he has to realise the traditions of the family and see that they are preserved, even if considerable firmness is required. That is all. The Movement is a jolly fraternity, all the jollier because in the game of Scouting you are doing a big thing for others, you are combating the breeding of selfishness. Regarding the second point, the various handbooks cover the successive phases of adolescent life. Thirdly, the business of the Scoutmaster-and a very interesting one it is-is to draw out each boy and find out what is in him, and then to catch hold of the good and develop it to the exclusion of the bad. There is five per cent of good even in the worst character. The sport is to find it, and then to develop it on to an 80 or 90 per cent basis. This is education instead of instruction of the young mind. Fourth. In the Scout training the Patrol or gang system gives the corporate expression of the individual training, which brings into practice all that the boy has been taught. The Patrol System has also a great character-training value if it is used aright. It leads each boy to see that he has some individual responsibility for the good of his Patrol. It leads each Patrol to see that it has definite responsibility for the good of the Troop. Through it the Scoutmaster is able to pass on not only his instruction but his ideas as to the moral outlook of his Scouts. Through it the Scouts themselves gradually learn that they have considerable say in what their Troop does. It is the Patrol System that makes the Troop, and all Scouting for that matter, a real co-operative effort. BTW, Wheeler posted "...Obedience is a virtue. With no obedience, there is no manhood...." So, Sam Adams, the Sons of Liberty, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington et al and all others those who did not obey their King could not be called men, could they ? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Since one of the three aims of scouting is Citizenship, I think any show of it follows the program. Now, I happen to be involved in a Crew that had one member (OutdoorThinker) spend her winter break in Iowa working for Gephardt and had our Charter President working in New Hampshire for Kerry (she was interviewed by Brian Williams on MSNBC) Now, with that mix, you can imagine our political discussions can get passionate, but with respect for other person's beliefs and a scoutlike attitude, such exchanges can be exciting and invigorating. I think both crew members were doing duty to country, anyone involved in the process is so much better than one who is not.

I took this from a Court of Honor Resource book I put together for Wood Badge, it was on some paper the troop had in its archives, I didn't mean to imply I wrote it, I don't know where it came from but I know I like it.

There is at least one Scout that I knew that could never be a man

There is a lot of talk about training a boy to be a man, to that end, I list a set of expectations the Troop I serve has for your perusal, comment, and entertainment. I hope I am not termed a Pip, or even a dickens for doing so: A scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is a part of his code of conduct. People can always depend on him A scout is true to his family, friends, Scout Leaders, school, nation, and world community. A scout is concerned about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward A scout is a friend to all. A scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that good manners make it easier for people to get along together A scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not harm or kill anything without reason. A scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them. . A scout looks for the bright side of life. He does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy. A scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property . A scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him. A scout keeps his body and mind fit. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community in order A scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. Did we miss anything?

There is a lot of talk about training a boy to be a man, to that end, I list a set of expectations the Troop I serve has for your perusal, comment, and entertainment. I hope I am not termed a Pip, or even a dickens for doing so: A scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is a part of his code of conduct. People can always depend on him A scout is true to his family, friends, Scout Leaders, school, nation, and world community. A scout is concerned about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward A scout is a friend to all. A scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that good manners make it easier for people to get along together A scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not harm or kill anything without reason. A scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them. . A scout looks for the bright side of life. He does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy. A scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property . A scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him. A scout keeps his body and mind fit. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community in order A scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others. Did we miss anything?

"We shall endeavor to persevere" Just what does that mean, anyhow?

Ok, I had Egon Spengler down, then realized it was Ivo and changed it, but before NJ posted his, I guess you will just have to accept I did it before I read NJ's post

Try to keep up Ed, that was Ivo Shandor whats the matter is all this Greek to you ? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

"Princes have always been the biggest betrayers." so what is the answer? Society without goverment? Wheeler you are an Anarchist! BTW, unless I misunderstand things, the court system does not determine good and evil, the legal system is not about values, it determies lawful and unlawful. You can argue whether or not abortion is right or wrong, but the courts only say it is legal. Sodomy may be wrong, but it has been judged not to be unlawful. A war may be considered "legal" but the Society of Friends (Quakers) and Moravians will say all war is wrong. When we expect our goverment to establish what is right and wrong, as opposed to what is lawful and unlawful then we are in trouible.

Good call FOG, gold = χρυσός Christ = Χριστός

I never had as much fun as when I was a Scout and I am an adult leader today in the finest youth program in the world today, the BSA. Its aims of Charactor Building, Citizenship and Physical Fitness as acoomplished through the eight methods of scouting is what all youth need in today's world. OldGreyEagle Eagle Scout, Father of an Eagle Scout, past assistant scoutmaster, current troop committee member, Venture Crew Assistant Advisor, District Advancement Chair, Assisitant District Commissioner Venturing

Words, as I have heard, have meaning, xry is the root for gold, Xri is the root for Christ. If you continue to insist you are correct, thats fine, your posts have plenty of historical and spelling errors to make one doubt if anything you say is true

Sorry, my Greek tells me xrysos means gold and Xristos means Christ. Xry means gold as in St. John Chrysostom (the golden mouth, writer of the Greek Orthodox Liturgy) BTW xrysos (gold) has no t, Xristos, refering to Christ, has a T I think a Turk taught you Greek(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

What a Country Yackov Schmirnoff Caveat Emptor Anon

"...Besides, all girls have cooties..." Misogyny

I don't know how many Lurkers there are on this site, the regular posters just know there are some. Some of the regulars strive to correct weird outlandish musings and rebutt just plain silly postings. But, the First Amendment being what it is, all visitors to this Forum are advised not every thing posted is true, accurate or even sensible and not all present posters are active in the Scouting program

Much like Donald Duck getting a platinum Visa card, sent to his Orlando address, alhough you just know one or both of the two Roys just had to have said, "lets be sure Barney Frank doesnt get one of these" when the wording of these letters was approved When you think about it, Barney Frank is one of the most scandal proof politicians in office, what could he do that would shock anybody?

Never thought of Palios Xristos (Old Christ)as a colloquialism, but perhaps it is. Around here, (Eastern PA/Western NJ) saying Palios Xristos will earn you a smack across the face from your NaNouna as its regarded much as hissing out a low toned "Jesus Christ" when exasperated. Funny how the same words have different meanings, wonder what else we can extend this to?