OldGreyEagle

"What's your tool of choice?" Never without the universal tool kit, Duck Tape,

I understand truncated posts are not your fault, and I would like to listen to what you have to say Marinelaw, but the sound of that axe you are grinding "drowns" out your arguments

Speaking of loud music... Really, the band Rammstein (seen in the movie Triple X) is a german band which sings all their songs in german. At a campout there was a majority of the troop huddled around a walkman while the 3 year german student was translating the songs. Now, I am sure in the translator's life, that was the most people he will ever have watch him translate german. The kids were impressed and he felt guten.

Well, YoungSpikedEagle and I are very happy to know that, we both feel better he just likes loud music and doesnt identify with the lyrics, now, crank it up and lets party... And you over there, try not to kick anybody, ok?

Of course you wouldnt TP, no parent would. The fact Slipknot has fans tells you that a lot of kids feel that Slipknot understands them in a way their parents don't. But, the issue isnt Slipknots lyrics, but a Scoutmaster with a son running wild. I apologize for the diversion. BTW Crew53Eagel, have you talked to the kid and asked him why he likes SLipknot so much? I hope its for their musical style and melody arrangement, but if its the pain and suffering that attracts him, then he needs some one to talk to fast, someone trained...

Ok, Eamonn, maybe Lucy is a painting, but the rest of the song doesnt sound like the happenings in any nursery I have been in. I agree the issue isnt the music, its the scoutmaster. BTW, YoungSpikedEagle is a fan of Slipknot as well, and from what I can detrmine from you, their lyrics would most likely NOT pass your Dad/delete test. They stopped me in my tracks a bit as well. We talked about the lyrics and he assured me it was the music he liked, not the lyrics. He is currently researching Christian Rock Music to find a band that SOUNDS like SLipknot, but has much more dad friendly lyrics. I guess when ever music is mentioned I react strongly, it comes from having a father who loved both kinds of music, Country and Western and never could accept Rock and Roll. It was all just a menagerie of weirdo freaky hippie mumbo jumbo to him

Ah yes, the innocent lyrics of the Beatles, immortalized in such classics as Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds... (LSD?) Picture yourself in a boat on a river, With tangerine trees and marmalade skies Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly, A girl with kaleidoscope eyes. Cellophane flowers of yellow and green, Towering over your head. Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes, And shes gone. Lucy in the sky with diamonds. Follow her down to a bridge by a fountain Where rocking horse people eat marshmellow pies, Everyone smiles as you drift past the flowers, That grow so incredibly high. Newspaper taxis appear on the shore, Waiting to take you away. Climb in the back with your head in the clouds, And youre gone. Lucy in the sky with diamonds, Picture yourself on a train in a station, With plasticine porters with looking glass ties, Suddenly someone is there at the turnstyle, The girl with the kaleidoscope eyes. Sounds like an ordinary day along the Thames, eh Eamonn? Or the Rolling Stones equally innocent "Things are different today, I hear ev'ry mother say Mother needs something today to calm her down And though she's not really ill There's a little yellow pill She goes running for the shelter of her mother's little helper And it helps her on her way, gets her through her busy day..." Its not the bands that screw kids up, or the lyrics, its parents who dont care and dont listen to the music and never ask the kids why this appeals to them. Maybe he just likes metal, maybe he identifies with the lyrics, either way I do not endorse Boy Scout troops censuring music.

Mmhardy, Is your first name Wesley and does your friend Harris go by the nickname PeeWee? These seem like exploits I have seen before, somewhere?

Just a rhetorical quesiton, I don't agree with limiting tent occupants to 2 scouts per tent, but if thats what works, for whatever reason, either troop By Law or trained decision, then thats the way it will be in those tents. I do have a quesiton though, what do you do with the issue of "settling" down when you are Cabin Camping and the entire youth entourage is sleeping together in one room?

Is it too late to get Crews that are High Adventure, Sea Scouts, Arts and Hobbies, Sports and Youth Ministries based to make a poster or display about what they have done? Have some Ventures there talking about what they did? If possible, don't concentrate on what CAN be done, that can be ephemeral in the teens mind, present them what's being DONE, by teens who live in their community(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Deep down does it matter? I sorta understand what you mean, and I sorta don't, thats the great part of having been on the debate club, you learn to see both sides of the question... Its important because its the "right thing to do". You either know your stuff or you don't. Its like setting a table, the knife and fork on the right side, and spoon on the left. Why? The earth doesnt fall off its axis if the knife and spoon and together, but thats not the right way. A man is not supposed to eat with with a hat on (religious convictions aside) Why? Because thats not the right way. Do any of these conventions really matter? Maybe not, but the scouts know whats right and wrong and how its supposed to be. They also know they get to mimic their leaders. If we do it right, they will as well and will teach it on down the line

Way back when I was a youth, a bit after Brownsea Island, but before the Ford Administration, our Troop provided the tents, One Army Surplus monster that was known as the 16by16 because it was, well, 16feet by 16feet in size. Most times the entire troop slept under it (since it had no floor and the walls were often rolled up, it wasnt like you were really in it, but I digress). If we needed more space, we used what were referred to as the Canadian Bells, Huge circular tents only slightly smaller that the 16by16. We didnt have much of a noise issue, if we did there would be a discussion of respect lead by the SPL and then the scoutmaster. It wasnt generally a problem. I see no reason to restrict how many scouts share a tent as long as safety issues are not present. To make up rules about how many scouts can share a tent based on what is expected to happen tells the scouts the adults dont trust them.

If you Senior Boy Leadership is up all night hoootin' and hollerin' then you don't have equipment issues, you have Senior Boy Leadership issues and legistratng tent size won't solve the problem, because the core issue isnt being addressed. What is meant by hootin and hollerin? How long do they do this? Are they prepared for the next days activities? Are they disruptive?

"October Sky" is a pretty good movie for showing how to assemble a team and accomplsh great feats against great odds, and it has a woman, the teacher (Laura Dern) in a pivotal role. And I understand at first blush, the Movie "Bring it On" looks like just an excuse to get hollywood cuties dressed up in tight sweaters and short skirts, but the main character does show some leadership skills and another character learns that being part of a team, even a cheer leadering squad isn't as hokey as she once thought. I have only seen the Network broadcast version, not sure if the original has language issues.

Yuck Yuck Yuck ol' Mopar, what a jokester, now do you have any stories you can relate to us that don't involve breaking the scout law? Note to youth, no matter how funny it may seem at the time, "borrowing" gear or equipment that is not yours or that you do not have permission to touch is not scoutlike.

One of the issues I see with Venturing is that the BSA saw its older boys drifting away due to varied outside interests. So in order to keep them in the program, they came up with another outside interest, so we have a boy who is running in circles with activities and BSA figures out that the best way to keep him is to add another activity... I don't think it computes. Then again, perhaps the target audience isn't 14 year old scouts, rather its 14 year old and older youth (I always have a hard time typing "older youth")who were never in scouting or moved at the "wrong" time or whatever, the idea is, they aren't doing scouting now. With its relaxed attitude on advancement and self governing policies, its not scouts we should be recruiting but non-scouts, whether male or female. Thats the underserved population. And while we are at it, lets make it three distinct programs. You earn Eagle as a Boy Scout in a Troop, not as a Venturer, unless girls can earn Eagle too. (that wont happen, and it shouldn't) The OA is for Boy Scouts and Ventueres should take their lodge patches off Venture Uniforms. It doesnt make sense to have things on a uniform only 50 percent of the membership can possibly earn/achieve.

Our Council has quite a well developed Scout Reach branch, if yours does, ask the exec what could be done, ours has plenty to do

Just fresh from Hawk Mountain, Northeast Region Camp School. Attended a presentation there put on by Doug Fullman of the Northeast Region who could not have been more emphatic in his call to have as many boys and troops participate in campfires. The campfire has not gone out in the Northeast Region !

Done

From what I understand this was launched a couple months ago, anybody know how its doing? I heard alot about it when it started, then nothing, any news?

Arrghh Arrghhh Arrghhh I can't get the search function to work, so here goes again: This takes a bit of pre-work, but once its done, the whole process works so much easier. Take 12 sheets of huge easel pad type paper and construct a 12 month calender, each sheet a separtae month. Label the dates Sunday-Saturday. Then, mark all the troop meeting dates. Then IN PENCIL mark all the district and council events (Camporees, Klondikes, etc) mark off summer camp and any high adventure trip you are taking. If possible, get the school systems calendar and mark off three day week ends, graduation, prom, SAT test time and put that on the calender. Then when the planning gets started, the group knows when different things are. I am not saying dont plan an event when Prom is, but just recognize such an event may be lacking older scouts, this may not be a problem, just a consideration. While planning place a campout in each month and assign responsibility for it. This is marked on the calendars. After each month has a campout/activity in it, then start planning Troop meetings. Place your Court of Honors and weeks you will not meet. Take a look at the meetings prior to a trip and preparation for that trip becomes part of the meeting program. Taking a canoe trip? Safety Afloat and Safe Swim defense should be presented prior to the trip, Get it scheduled and arranged. Klondike in a month? Time to brush up on winter camping and scout skills. If you block out the year and then see when your meetings are in relation to your events, meeting planning falls into place naturally.

When time to redo the patrols, the troop specifies a date and on that date, the scouts form patrols. Scouts who cant attend may send a proxy for them. Scouts who do not attend and dont send a proxy are placed in patrols by the PLC. Used to have a limit on size as well, but we lost that as well. Rather have 12 scouts who chose to be together than 8 scouts who really would rather be in the company of "those guys over there". Hasnt been a problem. The PLC used to have requirements, one life scout, no more than 3 Star, stuff like that. Got dumped the first time out. The only requirement is that each patrol select a patrol leader and the PL names an assistant. The PL and APL must attend a training week end and they are off. If you have "trouble makers" the answer isn't putting them in separate patrols. Its sitting each one down and having a frank and honest discussion of what is expected of a scout and what nehavior must be exhibited while on a troop event.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Here's a thought... Get rid of the 50 percent requirement, you will find no supporting BSA literature that says a troop may do this. If your committee member objects, tell him as soon as he can produce BSA documentation that supports the troop setting such a standard, you will change it. Its up to the scoutmaster to determine the scouts participation when evaluating a scout. If a scout is on the football team, then maybe being SPL during the fall is a no go, but he could be a librarian. He could make sure the libabry is in order, the books are out and come back, all during his downtime. There are ways to work it out, but it requires a case by case approach. Requiring a set percent of attendance smacks of "cookie cutter" scouting and I think we all agree, that is not good.

The Troops Favorite Repeat after me song The Troops Favorite Repeat after me song Has got to be Has got to be Froggie Froggie Traditionally lead by the Senior Patrol Leader Traditionally lead by the Senior Patrol Leader Until he goes hoarse Until he goes hoarse

Lets see, Casey at the Bat Casey 20 years later Cremation of Sam Mcgee Ballad of William Sycamore Polonius Advice to Laertes Henry V St Crispin's day speech (working on it) Oh wait, you already knew that