OldGreyEagle

In the end, I am not sure its more important what we tell the kids, than what we show the kids. We teach scouts to be trustworthy and have Enron plastered over the media We teach scouts to be kind and have murder trials brought to us live daily We teach... Actually I had a whole bunch of these laid out, but actually the scouts already know life is full of contradictions. The best thing we can do is provide a role model

The intent of this sub section is for Scouts and Scouters to exchange posts and thoughts about their own disabilities or that of others to put together a resource of strength My son was born with epispadias, thats an imcomplete formation of the urinary system. There are many forms, anywhere from not having the lower half of the abdomen closed to tiny imperfections. Well, my son was born without a penis. Male yes, but just an opning and some tissue that looked like a split hot dog. After tests to determine sex, (yes, he is a male) an operation was done to surgically construct a penis when he was 6 months old. The problem was without the necessary muscles in the penis, he could never control his bladder, he just leaked urine all the time which was alright as a baby and toddler, but as he got older, it wasnt as accpetable. He was also diagnosed as dyslexic and ADD. Around ages 7-8 he had his ureters transplanted from his bladder to his colon so he would urinate/defecate stool at the same time. This gave him much better control, but if he laughed or was startled, he would have an "Accident". When we first joined the troop, he would also tent with me, I carried all the necessary supplies as well as a portable toilet that he would use. I had it so if it were to be discovered, it would be mine. Well he caught some heck because he was always with daddy. Eventually at age 13 he had a (this is for boleta)appendicovesicostomy (hope I got this right) The surgeons took his ureters off his colon and put them back on the bladder, augmented it with colon tissue and then took his appendix and connected it to the new bladder and the outside abdomen wall. He now urinates by passing a catheter (10 french Doc) through the stoma into the bladder. He sleeps at night with a catheter in his bladder attached to a drainage bag. He tented with me a few times before he said, " I am who I am" and joined the troop. Showing them the bag. He never had a problem, or none that I heard about. He is Add, Dyslexic and has disfluencies, but he was elected SPL as well. HE was patrol leader to the 2001 Naitonal Jamboree, on staff at council JLTC for two years and an Eagle scout with a second bronze palm. In the early days, I and he were ready to quit more than a few times, while his peers came to accept him, the older scouts werent to sure. But I am an old Eagle and I wanted him to see all the benefits of the program. We stuck it out, and both are glad we did. We attended a Naitonal Jamboree together, even if he did need two footlockers, one full of supplies, we have been white water rafting in Maine, been to Gettysburg, Antietam and a whole bunch of other places. Do not quit, move around if you have to. You can find accptance, you may have to be his advocate as I am sure you are now. In the end, the scouts will mirror the behavior of the adults (that adult association thing, its pretty powerful stuff). You will find a troop that accepts people for who they are, it can be done.

B"lue Crush" is the girl surfer movie, it is rated PG-13, I dont know your target audience. Before we lose many more brain cells, what about Jean in Billy Jack? She is an accomplshed barrel rider, she runs the "freedom school" and she does it all on her terms. Or is that a reach? Then again there is "Father Goose" with Cary Grant and Leslie Caron< BTW, the first time I saw Pollyana, I cried myself to sleep, I couldnt understand why they would make her break her leg,(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ah, the checkered past of the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts in America. Lord Baden-Powell asked Juliet Gordon-Lowe to marry him, but word has it she responded, Oh Bobby, you need a proper english girl to marry, not a divorced American. So, she broke B-P's heart and went back to Savannah. B-P did recover nicely however, marrying a proper English girl. But the relationship between the Girl and Boy scouts has never been smooth, I guess you could say it mirrors the relationship between males and females everywhere, with some noted exceptions

Big Dog, you mean Troop Beverly Hills, actually it isnt bad if you look past some of the insipidness. They do manage to win the competition even after doing the right thing by transporting the evil leader of the other troop. But somehow, I dont think thats what Anne is looking for. What about the movie about the girl surfer? I dont know anything much about it other than the song "I feel so alive" came from it and the scene where she is dragging weight across the ocean floor just holding her breath. The original movie Parent Trap with Haley Mills may be worth a look. I mean at the end, the twins really work together. (plus I had a huge crush on Haley Mills)

What do we tell the kids? We ask them who pays the electric bill for the Las Vegas strip. We ask who pays the utility bills at Trumps Taj. In every round of celebrity poker, there is always one winner, but how many losers?

I think Clive Cussler would be the best choice, his character Dirk Pitt always uses a skill he learned in the Boy Scouts to save his life. How can you beat that?

FOG, I can't remember where I heard it, but I do remember an old proverb that went along the lines of "... it is ill to speak of the dead..." so, can you show me where BW wrote "BW has pointed out that it isn't our job to judge the spirit of the rules, only to abide by the rules as they are written." I don't remember him saying that, but he could have, but if he isnt going to participate in this little clam bake, why reference him at all?

First of all, Ain't this great, a return to the spirited debate of times past... yes, the lawyer's son exmaple is extreme, the point was we were not going to teach him much of anything, eventually he lost interest in scouts and stopped comming. He tempered my original stand about scouting being for all boys, sometimes, it is regrettably not. There are kids who will lose stuff, no matter how hard they try and will hate the humiliation of singing to get it back. Ok, the answer some may think is learn from your past mistakes, but what about those who can't. Whose short term memory has as many holes in it as a sponge. You aren't doing anything other than providing entertainment for the troop. And since you didnt mention it, the two tier system is ok with you, with the retards and normal kids treated differently?

A fair question Ed, very fair In the Troop to which I serve, lost items are corraled up and if they are marked they are returned to the scout individually, not in any ceremony. If they are not marked, they are held up during the reflection we do at the end of every outing, if a boy recognizes his item, he can come forward at that time. If he recognizes his item and does not wish to come forward at that time, but privately, thats fine as well. We had a scout once who was always leaving stuff laying around and it got to be a full time job keeping up with it. Finally in exasperation, the scoutmaster at the time asked the scout why should the troop leaders have to pick up after him and what if all the collected stuff was just thrown away, the answer was, well my father would first sue you and then he would buy me new stuff. (his father is a lawyer). Then to make a point the kid took all his stuff, whether lost or not and deposited it in the nearest trash. Next campout, he had all new stuff, better then before, and they original stuff was not too shabby. Ok, so if you have a child with developmental problems, the answer is to talk to the parents about responsibility and all is well? Or to develop a two tier system in your troop where the "normal" kids have to sing for their stuff but the "retards" dont? (harsh word yes, but how long before the "normal" kids figure it out and their terms may well be worse.

If someone did refuse, would they get back the item? Are the scouts told they have the right to refuse and will get the object back? At least FOG will call a spade a spade, I disagree with the approach, but he knows what he is doing. What if you had a mentally challenged scout, and he lost some items, would he have to sing to get them back?

Ed, it is hazing, If a scout flat out refused to sing or do anything else for the sheer sadistic enjoyment of the troop, what would happen? If you are going to tell me that it works in your troop, and no one is ever bothered by it, then fine, keep it up, but be honest and say in the troop there is a degree of hazing.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Oh you Crazy Nut, I have played my DVD of Billy Jack over and over and cannot find a scene where the motorcycle's license plate can be seen. Then I was thinking, is this one of those trick questions, does he even have a lisense plate? BTW. the town council meeting clip is classic, everytime I am in a raucous goverment meeting, its all I can think about

I don't know Fuzzy, do I get points for knowing the movie Billy Jack was the second movie in which the charactor Billy Jack appears? I am woefully short on my Billy Jack trivia

In the movie Billy Jack or in Born Losers?

Let me add a ditto to the previous posts, the Crew is able to devise its own uniform. I am not sure what the scoutmaster was talking about, but your offical uni is what your crew makes it. As far as summercamp goes, any camp familiar with Ventures enough to have a program you would want to attend will know the rules much better than the ill informed scoutmaster of which you speak.

Oooh Oooh Ooooh, (preferably Officer Toody style, not so much Arnold Horshack, and if you get both, Bless you ) Rainbows? Rainbows? Rainbows? Only thing we can do now is sing a song from one of the greatest cinematic works of art of all time, Billy Jack We're a rainbow, made of children We're an army, singing songs There's no weapons that can stop us Rainbow love is much too strong I was raised in Mississippi Saying yes sir, to a man But I found that it got me nowhere So I ain't gonna do it again We're a rainbow... Well my grandma, she was a princess And my grandpa, he was a chief And now thanks to our good neighbors Both my folks are on relief We're a rainbow... I was taught that black was evil I was taught that white was good But in a rainbow made of children Every color's understood We're a rainbow... It's not the winning that's important But it's how you play the game But that's not how some folks see it, And that's not how peace is made. We're a rainbow... BTW what other Camp song comes from Billy Jack and who sang it?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I try to write my name on the tag of all my uniforms and on the inside rim of all hats, amzingly its not only the kids who lose things neither

Our Council had such an employee a few years back. His salary was underwritten by Trail's End and his job was to convince packs they could get a whole year of scouting out of Popcorn sales. He helped the packs lay out a budget and assess how the pack would come up with the required money, ok, sell more popcorn was first on his list, but the whole budget process startled a few people, as in they never heard of it before. I know he got popcorn sales moving, he has since moved on to be a real DE and I dont know what happened to his popcorn posiiton. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I hate to be a spoilsport, but from the G2SS comes the following Varsity football teams and interscholastic or club football competition and activities are unauthorized activities. Now, I realize Flag Football is a far cry from Varsity football, but the phrase ...club football competition and activities..." gives me to pause, would Flag Football be included? Just for your own sake, I would clear it with the DE first.

Carry on,

Eagle, boleta good thoughts,

Maybe I was a little hasty, but I saw an old thread that came back and almost immediately posters appeared to be bickering with each other. To me that is a reason to close, but I am open to suggestions. If you feel there is life left in the thread, you can always start a new one and continue on. I apologize if I jumped the gun on that one

Once, long ago in a galaxy far far removed from my present life, I was a Dept Manager for a Radiology Dept in a 400 bed hospital. When United Way time came round, we (the managers) were under quite a bit of pressure as in our evaluations and hence a raise if possible was partially based on the goal set for our Depts. And no, I never had a say in what the goal was for my Dept. I had people who were dead set against giving to planned parenthood, so I would suggest scouting, the problem is, as we have seen, Planned parenthood really didnt suffer from this tactic and scouting got less than if the people contributed directly, but at least the hospital got credit for the donation. And thats the very least. I remember a bilical tale about a Widows penny and how she gave it away without fanfare. For those who receive their reward on earth have received it, and those who dont tell anybody, they will receive their reward in heaven. I think I really butchered that, if someone can straighten it out, please do. Anyway, in my area, where scouting still gets a portion, the United Way is run as a huge PR campaign for the local industries and who gives more is the focus. Individual employees are pretty well left out

try http://home.epix.net/~hawkmtn/jambpb.html did you make to a seminary? if so which one?