OldGreyEagle

It was a long time ago, in a place far far away, well, actually Chicago area, about 1965 or so. I was a bright young scout, really Gung Ho. I thought being a scout was the bestest thing in the whole world. On one summer campout. we drove for what seemed like hours. We got to the campsite and set up.. The Troop used an Army surplus 16X16, that thing was huge, and it was heavy and we all loved it. After the tent was up and the gear stowed, Charlie, the SPL came over and told me he needed my help. I was in like 7th heaven. Charlie was like a god to us younger scouts, he had his license and his own car. It was a 57-58 Chevy, it was painted candy apple red and roared like a jet, that car was cool. Rumor was he shaved everyday and had a girl friend. I fairly floated as we walked over to the group of older cooler scouts. Finally I was going to be part of the in crowd. I was to be the bag man on a snipe hunt. It was simple, all I had to do was stand on the Snipe trail and hold the bag open and the Snipe would run straight into it. Now, wait I said, I know what a Snipe hunt is, and I am not going to do it. I felt a lot let down that Charlie thought I was stupid enough to fall for a gag like that. So then Charlie says, well, you are right, but you know, Snipes are birds and we happened to have driven into where they live. So, I bought it. I went out and held the bag, and held it, and held it and held it. Well, back at camp the older scouts sure were having a party at my expense, they had this kid who knew about Snipe Hunts out on a Snipe Hunt, it was glorious. The adults on the trip knew what was going on, and reminded them that I was supposed to be brought back to camp about 1 am if I didnt show up first. Back at the Snipe Trail I stood, bag open. I knew Snipes were rare birds and figured we had driven long enough to get in their range. I waited, and waited. Along about dawn I figured I had waited long enough. Seems the older scouts got their signals crossed and everyone thought someone else would get me, but nobody did. I got back to camp as breakfast was being made, and when I was spotted, the whole camp cheered, laughed and hooted. I was not having a fun time. I remember thinking, remember this moment, remember how hot your cheeks feel, how angry you are, you are never ever going to feel this way again. A few months later it was the Fall Camporee. Charlie again asked me for some help. I asked him what, I was more than a little suspicious of anything he said at this point. He told me he needed the Camps Canon Report. It has the schedule of the Camporee on it and it was floating around the camp and people would get it, copy it down and pass it on. So, after being assured it was real, I went off. Gol dang it if every troop I visited had just had it but passed it along minutes before I got there. I went to over 10 troops before a kindly old scoutmaster who knew my dad from work asked me if I had ever been on a Snipe Hunt,. I almost fainted. The rage, anger, fear, humiliation just ran through me like an electric shock. He had done it to me again. I walked back to camp, slinked actually, imagining all who saw me were laughing behind my back, pointing me out as that absolute and complete idiot. When I got back to camp, I walked up to Charlie and told him I was sorry, but I didnt get it, but I would go after it first thing in the morning. I never did go after it and I never talked to Charlie again. I never did anything he said and completely blocked him and all his older buddies out. I learned never, ever to trust what a boy leader said because they were out to get me. As time went on, I made sure that no other scout ever went through what I did. I would tell all the new scouts about snipe hunts and canon reports and all that. I told them if anyone asked them to do anything that didnt sound right, to ask me first. I had a few angry older scouts, but I didnt care and I was getting big enough that nobody retaliated. I eventually was elected Senior Patrol Leader because the scouts knew I would not betray them Is that the kind of good hazing story you want? zzz (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

In the first case, you have admitted what has been done hasnt worked, maybe calling the mother will maybe it won't. I know as an adult leader if I saw something that I felt a parent should know about, I would be telling the parent regardless of what the troop did. In the second part, does the scouter know about the tradition of hats off in the dining room? I know when I went to my first scout camp as an adult I didnt know about the hats off rule and was quite taken back by it and was going to make a big deal about it. Luckily a fellow ASM told me, they have been doing this for as long as I was a scout, its what is done. I complied and now even when the Dining Hall is used to checkin at the Klondike Derby and wearing a hat makes good sense, I feel like I should remove it. A lot has to do with the approach. If some kid comes up to me and demands "Hey you old fart, take off your hat, you dummy" (hyperbole added for effect, insert your random insults anywhere) you will get a much different reaction thaN, "Mr GreyEagle, when in the Dining Hall it has always been the tradition of the camp to remove ones hat, we invite you to join us in this tradition" Ok, maybe the last one was a trifle over the top, but the point is, the approach matters. How is this guy otherwise?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

As the Assistant District Commissioner for Venturing, I am supposed to be recruiting Unit Commissioners for Venturing, so far I have found it a rough row to hoe. The normal source of Commissioners for Cubs and Boy Scouts are parents whose youth have gone thruugh the program and want to help out, at least in our council that is. Well, Venturing is young enough so far that there arent a lot of people whose youth have aged out, and those that have are still quite active in Crews. So, where do your Venture Commissioners come from?

I am not so sure the troop I serve bans anything, if anything becomes a distraction to the program, it is dealt with on a case by case basis. Anything "taken" is always returned to the scout after the event. It takes a lot of energy generating lists of can'ts

Whether its looking for a Skyhook, a Left (or right) Handed Smoke bender, 50 feet of shoreline or the Camps Canon report, or any other type of "wild goose chase" where a well meaning scout is sent in pursuit of a mythical object, its all hazing, its all unscout like and has no place in the program. If your college fraternity allows hazing, thats fine, but dont use it as a reason to justify hazing in the BSA program.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

There is no such thing as "good" hazing

Ever hear of Hot Butter by Popcorn? Its an electronic intstrumental that might be nice as well as the theme to Hawaii Five O by the Ventures (wonder if they were an early Crew?) Classical Gas is an instrumental by Mason Williams which would work as well Ooh oooh oooooh, as I read this, I really get the feeling all these song, classic or pop are really OLLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDD School, maybe something from the era of the scout would be nice, I know its got a lousy official title but Good Riddance (Time of your Life) by Green Day might be nice and there is a chance the kids would recognize it. I used this as a reading at my son's Eagle Court. I was halfway through it before the scouts recognized it was one of their "songs" and pronounced it cool that a dad would take "their music" and use it as opposed to all that old stuff. Its written as a ballad and is quite tame music Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road. Time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go. So make the best of this test, and don't ask why. It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time. It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right. I hope you had the time of your life. So take the photographs, and still frames in your mind. Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time. Tattoos of memories and dead skin on trial. For what it's worth, it was worth all the while. It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right. I hope you had the time of your life. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

We had an Eagle Court of Honor recently with a Power Point presentation of the scouts career from tiger on up, Rod Stewart's Forever Young was used, it was great, although I had suggested Van Gelis "Chariot's of Fire" which I think would be cool

And he agreed the BSA was being unlawfully discriminated against in the situation that is the original subject of this thread

Requirements are just that, stuff that needs to happen before something else can happen. At the Olympics, the requirement for winning a Gold Medal is to come in first place, those not receiving Gold medals werent victims of Hazing, they just didnt meet the required criteria.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Was that Yoda or Mr Miyagi, I get them confused

There's a hole in the bucket dear thenry dear thenry, there's a hole in the bucket dear thenry a hole

Pete, wearing the uniform is not an example of following the Rules and Regulations of Boy Scouts, I see you are suffering truncatingitis, I hate when that happens. Wearing the uniform is one of the eight methods of scouting which help the program with its three aims. If all this is Greek (See Wheeler,or maybe not so much) to you, I can start a new thread and we can discuss it there. As has been hashed and rehashed quite a bit the fewer Rules and Regulations there are, the better life is in a troop, and you may be surprised to know how few rules scouting actually has when compared to the amount of "urban legend rules" that a lot of troops have But all this digresses from the original point. The SPL. What is your role in this scenario, are you the Guide, Parent of Guide, innocent bystander, other?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

If you've never known failure, how will you know when you succeed?

How did you find this out? What are the circumstances of you learning this? Were you on the outing? WHich Adults were? There is a lot to cover before anything can be said

Thats like during the 1936 Olympics somebody asking Jesse Owens to quit running so fast as he was making the germans look bad... Or telling Jerry Rice to quit catching so many footballs as he made other players look bad... Heck, with as much talk the forum has about to much PC creeping into life, isnt this the ultimate? The one scout who is following a method being told not to as he makes the others look bad? He does not need to descend to the common level, rather that level needs to ascend to where the troop guide is(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I had a friend who got kicked out of the Anarchist movement, seems he wouldnt follow the rules... Anyway, the troop I serve had a similar thing happen to it, when my son and I joined it had 18 scouts, in two years it had 40 and in 4 it had over 90. One year our new scout program had 30 scouts in it and the ASM who was leading it was almost the Second Scoutmaster, we didnt have a new scout patrol, we had a new Scout troop consisting of 5 new scout patrols. We were talking about limiting members and all that when something funny happened. New scouts would visit us, see our numbers and be intimadated and joined other smaller troops. Over the past few years the total has fallen to around 70. When we had 90 every new group of scouts had a parents meeting, where we laid out what was needed and we always got new volunteers to help. I think what helped is that we have almost 50 adult leaders and when people see that a lot of people help, they are more apt to help as well because they can see if like 3 people quit, they wont be stuck doing it all. Enjoy the ride, think of all the lives you are effecting, the memories you are making, aint this a wild ride???

Aw, but were they "idiots" or crafty scammers that engineered a week end without parental responsibilities knowing their child would we well cared for?

Nothing yet, but if is an issue, the price of the outing may be increased a few dollars to reimburse the drivers. That would seem to be fair. it might be a good PLC agenda item.

I wonder if those who balk at giving out private information would be quiet of a known child molester were to found on the Troop committee or if a molester's past record were to be found after being found molesting a child?

Then again anyone who would walk in front of a loaded and cocked catapault probably wouldnt heed your advice not to

And maybe, just maybe, if enough troops don't show up at district events, the organizers of those events will change the events so the youth want to attend them, in the words of the erstwhile Judy Tenuta, "It could Happen" Just a note, be sure to let someone know a the District Level of the Troops decision, you can't fix something if you don't know its broke(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I don't know why anyone would be surprised at merlyn's position. He has been steadfast ever since I started reading his responses. He does not want any governmental unit using any of his tax money to support any organization that discriminates against atheists pure and simple. He also doesnt want a govermental unit discriminating against a private organization because if that governmental unit can prohibit Boy Scouts from using public property based on its beliefs, than it could also prohibit any group from using public property based on other beliefs (or non-beliefs). He only wants Boy Scouts to use public property at the same access level other organizations have. So, merlyn, do I have it right?

Hey now, Don't you be talkin' bad about those Red Berets, it was honor in the troop I was in. You had to be a member of the Gung Ho patrol to wear one.

As much as it pains me to say this, why plan and go on an Outing that you already know will be poorly attended. Troops are not required to go to the Camporees, highly encouraged yes, but not required. And what do you mean, "ordinary" campout, if the PLC plans outings, then none should be "ordinary" BTW, the troop I serve had a long history of aatending, but not doing well in the patrol competition portion of the Camporee. I challenged the patrols if they placed First, Second or Third overall, they could throw a pie in my face. Well, after three years, one placed third and indeed I was pied. The NEXT camporee they came in third again and I owe them a pie. It worked for us