OldGreyEagle

Hops, I think you already know this, but for the good of the order I will say this anyway. As is being discussed in the "Handling Older Scouts" thread, the number one priority has to be to do things the group, not you or the ASM want to do. Hopefully you will do what you want, but the groups will has to be done or you will be alone.

I am very much against defining Active with some percentage number. Lets say Troop A has a 75% attendance at meetings and 50% of events policy and Troop B has a 50% Meeting and events policy and Troop C has no numerical formula. In Troops A and B scouts routinely drop out and do not advance and look back on their scouting careers and think, boy, I wish I had done more in scouts but with band and baseball (etc) I couldn't fit it in. Then there is Troop C. They have scouts who are active at different times of the year and then arent so active. These scouts advance when they show up and do the requirements. They can look back at their scout career and think, wow, scouts were fun and I was able to do all those other things as well. The added kicker is if any of the scouts of A, B, or C earn Eagle, they earn Eagle. There is no asterisk attached to any of the Eagle Certificates delineating the attendance record of the scout. But, I digress, the question at hand is how to define active. Here is how I look at it. To advance in ranks up to and including first class, certain requirements have to be met. Shopping, Cooking, Camping, attendance at a set amount of troop activities. When the scout accomplishes these requirements, I think you have to say the scout was active; after all, he accomplished all the requirements that were presented to him. Now, when a scout is First Class, things do get interesting, in order to advance he has to complete (make that satisfactory complete) a position of responsibility for at least 4 months. As is normal all the requirements say the scout is to be an active member of the troop, patrol ect, to advance. Now, I dont think a scout can satisfactory complete 4 months in a position of responsibility for 4 months and still not be defined as an active scout. The key is the way the position of responsibility is handled. The scoutmaster or designee goes over the job description with the scout and assures the duties and expectations are understood. On a periodic basis the scoutmaster or designee reviews the scouts performance and highlights strengths and they talk about how to improve weaknesses. When the four months is through, there is no question that the scout was active, he had to be to complete his job. Then the scout becomes Star and a six-month Position of Leadership is required. Again, the job description is reviewed, the expectations set and the monitoring begins. After six months, if the job is done well, the scout had to be active. The Scout is now Life and in another 6 months he could be Eagle, the cycle being followed again. Lets say a scout joins a troop on his 11th birthday. Its a really happening troop and he goes through the ranks and becomes a first class scout on his 12 th birthday. In 4 months he becomes Star and 6 months later Life and indeed 6 months after that, when he is 13 and 4 months old he reaches Eagle. He has satisfactorily completed the requirements. He held three positions of responsibility and always understood the expectations and always met them. He attends 90% of the meetings and 80% of the events. Then after his Eagle Court of Honor, he is never seen again. Well, he is seen, just not as a scout. He completed his requirements and in Irving, he is listed as an Eagle. Then you can have another scout. One of many interests and an eclectic lad by nature. He also joins at 11, and he takes one year to make first class. But then after his 4 months stint as historian, satisfactorily completed, it takes him another 12 months to accomplish the required merit badges for Star. After earning Star he drops out of sight for 6 months and them comes back, assumes the Quartermaster position and goes great for 6 months then when his stint is over, it takes him another 6 months of spotty attendance but he makes Life. Then it takes him 18 months to make Eagle with 6 months of solid ASPL work, but due to band and baseball, little else. It takes the second scout considerably longer to achieve Eagle, but as both met the requirements, in Irving the names are in the same file, under Eagle Scouts. Was the second scout as active as he could have been? No, Was the first scout? No, But if they both met the requirements, and performed them satisfactory, so I would say they were both active.

There's no such as thing as a Class A in the BSA!

I find myself getting overly emotionally invested in this topic. I beleive having a troop policy/tradition/whatever of making someone sing or otherwise perform for the troop for a lost article is hazing. I dont beleive the OA Ordeal, Brotherhood or Vigil Ceremonies are. I beleive I have made valid arguments supporting my views. Perhaps they are strong, perhaps they are not. I do know my continued active participation in this thread will not be positive to scouting.

Has anyone asked them what they want to do ?

Welcome, Enjoy!

Inane analogy, Ed here is simply just playing us for his own entertainment, I can see him at his computer chuckling and rubbing his hands together in glee as he reads what "he made us do" as we try to put together logical, well-crafted thought out explanations, don't bother, he ain't buying. He knows its not right, he just wants to see how many of us he can frustrate.

The form itself may be found here http://www.scouting.org/venturing/anc/pdf/25-203.pdf

Ed, go yank on somebody's elses chain, your act is growing mighty thin on me

"tis a pleasure to serve"

Just another service from the friends and dysfunctional family here at Scouter.Com. Be sure to come again

Ed, you can cut out the inane quesitons, Merlyn Leroy isnt around for this thread, I know how much you love to bait people with irrelevant questions over and over when you just want to stir things up. I beleive the Internet term is Flaming (ronic, ain't it) The OA Ordeal is not hazing as those who undertake the Ordeal do it willingly and have an understanding of what it is and what will happen. They know if they complete it, they will have membership in the organizaiton and will never have to repeat the process. In a troop that sings for lost items, every day is a new adventure an every boy sings for every lost item anew. Now maybe you think you are funny, in fact I do think you are a real stitch, I hope all of your troop think so, because your stock here is falling.

First off, let's lay off the Bears ok? Next, the Eight Methods of Scouting are just that, they aren't the Eight Suggestions of Scouting, they ARE the methods of scouting, I have never read in any BSA publication that it was ok to pick methods like ordering from a Chinese Restuaruant Menu, taking two from column A and 1 from B. Its all eight all the time. I don't have such a good memory, but I remember a quote from some training session I attended, it ran something like boys come together to form patrols, patrols come to gether to form troops, anybody ever hear that one?

yes (for a complete discussion check the thread "Camp Hazing the good kind" in the Scouting History Section)

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi

SO including your lovely wife and Eamonn, that makes 3?

SO including your lovely wife and Eamonn, that makes 3?

I have occasion to travel all over the country and see quite a few things. One of the most spectacular sights I have ever seen happened in eastern Kentucky. It was late March and I was driving from Jackson, KY to Lexington to catch my flight. It was mid afternoon and it started to snow those huge lazy flakes that happen in the spring. After awhile I noticed that the snow would stick on the tops of the trees but not on the ground. Then the trees would be covered from the top to the ground. I realized it had to do with the elevation I was at. You could draw a straight line to the horizon and it didnt matter how much the ground undulated, the line stayed straight, above it snow, below it was just wet. As I journeyed out of the hills, the snow line ranged up and down the trees, it was one of the most breath taking scenes I have ever seen. I wouldnt have minded camping there at all. Y'all remind me to tell you the story of the Kentucky Cheesecake sometime, its a real hoot

I have gotten your PM's and have responded but since you havent responded back, I am not sure you got them. PM me with your Email address and I will send the requested info

I am impressed, some troops don't do what you are doing. The key is layers and good equipment, whether its fleece, wool or what have you, the secret to being warm is the right equipment and the time to test is not on the event. As things get cooler experiement with combinations of layers and get comfortable taking off and replacing layers as you heat up and cool down. A big fluffy parka does no good on a child if it makes him sweat while he is running around amd allows him to freeze when he sits still. People aren't born master campers, they learn from experience, just don't let your first experience be the campout

I moved this here as there are some forum members who forego reading the Issues and Politics threads and it seems you need real life experience help from those who may have lived the same problem

Bob, Interesting point and I understand from whence you are comming. However, and I say that mostly because I didnt want to say But... When the Troop had a few groups out at Philmont, I could have sworn the groups were told that on the trail they wanted them to sleep alone in tents because if a bear came sniffing around, it would be easier for a boy to exit the tent through the "back door", (hastily made with a knife) than two boys trying to do the same thing) Has anyone else heard the same thing?

The people in the Council Office I serve are either in field or activity uniforms every time I have seen them. The SE is always in uniform, or seems to be, and I see him alot (he is an ASM in the troop we serve)

Are you familiar with the scout sign?

Hey Annon, welcome, I am sure you will run into, on the Forum at least, Ozemu, another Aussie, enjoy!