OldGreyEagle

In the COuncil and District I am graciously allowed to serve, and apparently lucky to do so, I have yet to be to a training session where there wasnt an evaluation form given at the end of the course content, prentation and materials. I had assumed that all of scouting was like that, I am sorry for you that you havent experienced the same thing. BTW, have you volunteered to be on the training team in your district yet yet? ot given your suggestions to the Training Chair?

OK, maybe I was being a little melodramatic, ok, a lot, but I think cajuncody did the right thing

http://www.chsscout.net/rescenter/docs/last.shtm Although I am not VentureScoutNY, nor do I play him on TV here is a link to that

YIKES Guide to Safe Scouting Section IV. Drug, Alcohol, and Tobacco Use and Abuse The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members. http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss04.html to see and print it Were youth present at the pack activity(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Then again, I am not sure if I would be able to sleep if I heard a week following such an incident that a two year old boy was hit by a car on that highway because his father was too engrossed in other activities, legal or illegal, way to go Cody (BTW Cody, remind me about tennessee Cheesecake, not in this thread, but another)

If you want to know, and its easy to do, call Irving, tell the receptionist you need to verify an Eagle. You will need to know full name, address when he would have been awarded the Eagle and birthdate, that sort of thing. They can tell you in minutes if he is an Eagle or not. I have a dear friend whose nephew earned Eagle but because of family upheaval never had a Court of Honor and never got the medal. I called Irving, supplied the name, date, address and troop and it was verified, he is an Eagle. At a very reasonable cost they sent a certificate and medal which we presented to him during a family party. It was great!, but I digress. If you want to know for sure, its easy to find out from the definitive source. What you do after you find out? Well, thats another story alltogether

The "bootleg" knots may be found on E-bay, along with just about any vestige of western civilization, but I digress. I had a moral struggle with myself, the unofficial knots that match the uniform and are worn by a lot of my Council peers or the official knots of the BSA. In the end the official knots won out, setting the example I guess, but the illegal knots do look kewl

Do it and arrange with the local newspaper when he "presents" the trailer back to the trop to have pictures and a story on the trailer in the paper. It helps him and puts scouting in the publics eye

I think you have to rely on context and how its received, at one time Baaaad meant bad, now someone who has baaaaad scout skills is good. Being "ridiculous", "insane" and "mad" denotes a good thing. The current Boston Red Sawks call themselves "idiots" so they dont find it insulting, however, many Cubs or Scouts may not appreciate being called so. I think you have to watch the reaction, talk to the scout away from the others as was mentioned.

Acco, I understand that, I think, what I am after is why does the BSA mandate service time? If forced service time is useless, as Ed seemed to imply, then the service a scout renders is likewise worthless. But if in doing the service, the scout (or student) comes to see the value of service, how different organizations aid the community and they willingly continue after the required committment is met, then it works.

But if they dont have the nights camping, then they arent eligble, did I miss something?

Ed, I am confused, One of the reasons the BSA has service hour requirements is because we want to expose the scouts to the value of service, to let them experience how good it feels to help someone else and to be exposed to a whole new world of people beyond their normal comfort zone, why shouldn't the oft-critized ( and with some good reasons) school systems do the same thing?)

I undestand what you mean PNScouter, first, as we all know, in the guide to safe scouting it says that there are no secret organizations in scouting and that all activities are open, but then again we also have the OA, a "secret organization" with passwords, rituals, etc. As Eamonn said, the ceremonies are open to the parents of the scout, although discouraged, at least in my area. The reason, I beleive, is to foster in the scout a sense of belonging to a special organization, of feeling that he is special. You may ask why this is necessary and I dont have a real good explnation other than to refer you to The Knights of Columbus, the Freemasons and a few dozen other "secret" societies that have publicly stated missions but also non-public ceremonies. I beleive the OA rituals serve a good purpose and its secrets enhance its positon in scouting. Overall, I think the mystique enhances the organization

Great Topic! To me the number one priority would be to be sure the scout sees this BOR as concern being expresed by the Troop's adults, not anger and that attending the BOR is seen as help being extended, not as punishment or a brow beating. And since every scout is different, I leave that to you to tailor to the scout. The next step is to outline the reason for the BOR, go over the history of why the scout sits before you. Ask him what activities he likes, what he doesn't, what he wants to do more of. Ask him how can the adults in the troop assist him in his own advancement. This could be tricky because you dont want to be seen as taking the responsibility of advancement away from the scout, but also make sure he realizes there is support and resources in the troop that he might not realize exist for his advancement. See if you can map out a plan for him to reach a goal. First class by Christmas or something like that. Show him how it can be done, what events to attend, what requirements/skills need to be met/demonstrated that sort of thing. Who can teach him the skills, who can sign them off, scout or adult. When he leaves the BOR he should have a firm plan in mind how he will acoomplish the goals and realize how much support he has to reach it, but that he has to be the one to get things done(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Just wanna add my Amen to the above and others, if they arent trained, how would they know? And besides, the greatest scoutmaster of all time Lemuel Siddons never even had a son in the program, he adopted a wayward youth and continued on to Scoutmaster Emeritus long after Whitey aged out. What was it that Davy Crockett said. "First make sure you're right, then go ahead."

yes, what he said (Proud Eagle)

So if having more active members is great, why would the OA be considered diluted? Why restrict the membership if having more members is good?

But how can having more members be bad?

Dude!

Let is never be said that I wasn't, or couldn't be confused about nearly anything. What I am saying is in the the "old days", which will be defined as having a limit on the number of scouts who could be in the OA, many deserving and qualified scouts were not elected because as you put it only the "top dogs" got elected. Now, and this is conjecture on my part, but the "top dogs" were elected becasue they were gung ho scouts with leadership capabilities and a love of camping and a knack for service. And they were most likely heavily invested in the troop and its leadership. Some became very active in the OA, some didn't. Today, because more scouts are allowed to be elected, there is a greater pool of talent from which OA leaders may emerge. I know in the Troop I serve we have a few scouts who have become very active in the OA, I doubt had the past restrictions been placed on the troop these guys would have been elected, but they were elected and have been an asset to the OA. If you think the OA has been diluted, perhaps it may be tied to the times. Time was when the OA was for older scouts who had done their time in the troop leadership and wanted to do more, it was seen as a way to keep older scouts involved in scouting by offering a variety of activities not associated with the troop and demnds on a tenes time was less. With all the options availiable to youth today, perhaps OA is becomming a casuality of too many activities. Anyway thats my thoughts

I am a little confused here, and I am after a larger target, but I want to be sure I understand, so its not OK to push,shove, and strike people, right?

I don't think its fair to say the OA has been diluted by allowing more members and I think the sports analogy of expansion teams doesnt work. When a sport expands, it opens up slots on team rosters that have to be filled therefore players not good enough to have a roster slot the previous year get a slot in the expansion year because the position has to be filled. The OA situation is different, there is no quota of scouts who have to be elected. The membership requirements have not changed, you still have to be first class, you still need the nights of camping and you have to be selected by your troop as the type of scout who they want to camp with. Now more scouts who meet the requirements are allowed an opportunity of membership. To dilute the OA, the nights of camping would have to be reduced, or the minimum rank reduced, to date that has'nt happened. When I was a scout (lo many years ago) the troop could only select a specific number of scouts to be members although certainly many more were qualified, today those who are qualified get a chance, and I think thats overall a better way to run things.

its my understanding that the reason the OA limits adults members is because its supposed to be a youth organization with adults only in supporting roles so it limits adults to assure its run by the youth.

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Whats the Crew program like? For any of the requirements for any of the Bronze Awards that I know of an educational presentation of the material is required and the troop would be the perfect spot for that.