OldGreyEagle

Now Dan, I and Ed never said we were doing away with patrols as a method of scouting. What was said, and I am sorta speaking for Ed, so Ed, if I am wrong. you may feel free to chastise me, what was said that the BSA reccommeds having patrols set up according to age. SOme troops have mixed age parols because they say it works for them, Backpacker amoung them I beleive, again if I am wrong, Backpacker one free shot that wont be edited, unless of course its vulgar, profane etc. I dont see anywhere that Ed or I said that we would eliminate Patrols or change their structure of having members who elect a patrol leader and the patrol leader selects an assitiant. If anything I said leads you to beleive I dont think the patrol system is needed in boy scouts, please point out the post so I can either clarify what I meant or barbecue my shoe because if its in my mouth I want to enjoy it at least. Now, as far as advancement rules go, in the BSA publication #33088D titled Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures 2002 Printing on the last paragraph of page three it states, "No council, district, unit or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancment requirements"

Well, actually I am from the western suburbs of Chicago, Wood Dale by name and proud alumna of Troop 65 chartered by Holy Ghost Catholic Church. But I don't think thats what you meant, right now I am in Bethlehem, PA in a troop and crew chartered by East Hills Moravian Church. The crew has been to the Pine Barrens three times now, each time creepier than the last.

I agree with Ed, using mixed age patrols is tweaking, saying only trained registered leaders are the only adults who can overnight with the troop is tweaking, saying no females on campouts is tweaking, having 15 scouts in a patrol because only half only show up at any one time is tweaking but adding requirements to the advancement process is wrong, having scoutmaster conferences that last hours with drills on knots is wrong and BOR's that redo each requirement is wrong. I also know that no matter what I say, most troops will continue to operate the way they have always operated, some well and some not so well.

Well, it wasnt the SE, it was the Council Committee that decided we would be one trained Council,

well, in my council, its fairly easy to get people to training, you have the council commitee mandate that unless the lead youth contact leader, cubmaster, scoutmaster or Venture Crew advisor is trained, then the unit cannot recharter in 2005. In 2005 if the committee chairman is not trained, then the unit cannot recharter for 2006. They are curently working on percentages of asst scoutmasters and committee members who have to be trained for 2007. Not sure if it will be a number or a percentage. Anyway, how do you get people to training? Mandate it or do not recharter the unit

Ok, so the troop your son is in, and you support adds to the requirements that the BSA has established and you want to know if anyone here supports that. And I for one do not. I understand the argument that the size of a troop must be an indicator that what is being done is correct, but I do not think so. That you have huge numbers may signal a successful youth program, it doesnt mean its a scouting program. I beleive the troop your son is in is improperly adding to the requirements of the BSA.

Dan, are you saying your Troop requires a service project to reach the rank of Life along with the Position of Responsibility and this is done to prepare the scout for the Eagle Leadership project? I want to be sure I understand

At the risk of raising hackles, what's a Life Project?

Ok, so the Venture Crew just got back from Wharton State Park in the Jersey Pine Barrens. Once again, just like last year we were in search of the Jersey Devil. Hiked along the Mullica for awhile and saw a few strange sights, mostly canoeists dressed in costume, as well as kostumed kayakers as well. Made camp and sat around a campfire and listened to the woods and the creamation of Sam Magee. . It had poured friday night but a wonderful moon came out on saturday. Had along two young ladies who had never backpacked before, both loved it. One of the adult advisors brought out some chocolate frosting,and saturday night scooped some in a pot warmed it and added a little water and voila, chocolate fondue. Dipped oreos in it and surfed a glucose rush for quite awhile before we turned in. It was a grand weekend. On sunday on the way to Basto, we found a single rather large bear, huge dog looking track in the sand, not sure what it was, could have been the Devil inviting us back next year, and perhaps we will there, unless the youth decide otherwise, but I dont think so PS one of the lsdies was barely taller than her borrowed pack, but she toted her share with a vengeance and never complained, and want to do more, what's that what Barry says? I love this scouting stuff(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

This whole thread has sorta got me spooked, I guess it has been the season for that. And I admit I may be a little thin skinned when it comes to Moderator criticism as I try to be as fair as I can, to the point of perhaps being overly fair (if thats not an oxymoron). At least thats what I think. I have stayed out of the subject of this thread because while I have had doubts about the perfection of the BSA program, I cant think of any negative situation that I have encountered that was the result of following the program. However, the whole premise that the BSA program is infallible, and that following it will always produce success smacks slightly of being sacrilegious and on a Holy Day for me (All Saints Day)I wonder if getting to wrapped up in glorifying a process engineered by man isnt at the very least "shady". I dont know if I can be any more lucid on this topic, I have struggled with a reply ever since this thread started. Anyway, I do have to say while the BSA Program may not be perfection, it's one of the best there is and we ALL who spend time trying to accomplish the mission of the BSA need to remember to honor ourselves and our fellow brothers and sister who work hard to bring the best program of which we are capable. now in closing, I think its time we all sang a song together, its to the tune of Home on the Range, I think most of you know that (SIC!), I'll start and I want all to join in: Aren't Scoutleaders grand For the programs they plan And the hours they put in each night? If they're ever home You know they're on the phone For the youth who they want to teach right. CHORUS: We're at home in the woods. On weekends with our units we stay. Thought we never get rest, The youth are doing their best, And that's what we're getting for pay! They hike to their site Though it takes half the night Through the wind and the rain and the snow! These leaders so brave They could live in a cave Except that their spouses just say No! CHORUS: Camp food tastes just great, Like an old paper plate, And the bug juice is not fit to drink. So why every year, For a week at camp they come here It's not for vacation, we think! CHORUS: They read magazines With great camping scenes, Frustration does things to their brains. Champagne is taboo, and cigarettes too, So for forty eight hours they abstain. CHORUS: They feel like old men, On a camp out, they've been To be clean, to be warm, to be dry! But to tell you the truth, they're re living their youth So in answer they merely reply! CHORUS: Now, I feel better, I hope you all do too YIS OldGreyEagle

I am not sure if it was lost, but just for the record, I hold the Knights of Columbus, Shriners, Masons, etc all in high esteems, it was meant to be sarcasm, sorry it failed

Backpacker, I closed that thread at the request of a forum member, I often close threads at the request of forum members and have been known to edit posters posts after the time has expired for them to do it. I did close that thread at Bob's request and Bob started it over, and it has remained untouched, as has this thread. If you want to hunt witches, I guess this is the season, but leave Hops and I out of it

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Its Me, I know sometimes people can say things they dont mean, or maybe they do. Can you show me where any Moderator of this forum has sided with Bob White to the measure of closing a thread in his defense? I would like to think Hops and I do a good job, but am always open to the thoughts from others

Yeah, The OA, The Shriners, The Knights of Columbus, etc. All flash no program, all should be swept from western civilization

Bob, I think the point it that the ad was in the Council newspaper and I have to think its mighty sloopy editing to allow an ad for a prohibited activity. Now, if it said great for Birthdays parties etc. no problem, but when it says scouting, in a scouting newspaper, its kinda weird.

In my Council, not in my Disitrct, http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b3_4scoutsoct29,0,6584722.story?coll=all-newslocal-hed I can't seem to get the link to work, but if you copy the complete address, you will get, sadly, to the story.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Oh the GSUSA, ok, carry on

Whats GSA?

It has always been a dream of mine not so much to develop an event-planning guide, but to develop an event reflection tool and then have it used as an event planning guide. I have addressed this a few times with the PLC and have not as yet been able to motivate them to see the value of reflection. I think a standing agenda item of the PLC should be recent (since the last PLC meeting) troop events. Whether Campouts, Camporees, Hikes, Service Projects, anything troop related. Each event should be gone over, was the right equipment present, how was communication for the event, what went well, what could have been done better, if the event was to be repeated, what would be done differently. The troop scribe would compile the comments in a file and the file passed from Scribe to Scribe. In a very short period of time there would be a bank of information on various events, things to avoid, things that went well. When the PLC plans the next years events access to these files would remind them of what went well and what didnt. Since the make up of PLCs change quite a bit the files remain as a resource of past times, past years past mistakes and past victories. If scouts know their efforts would be subjected to peer review perhaps they would attend to details a little better before the event, Anyhow, its a thought

In the words of Emily Littella Oh Cheddar, that is something different altogether, never mind

Oh, he should be ok, he is new and just wants us to take notice of him, and perhaps shake things up, he wants to see what the lay of land is so to speak. I think once he knows where he stands in relation to the group he won't be in as strong an attack mode and his posts will moderate somewhat and will become a member of the group and add valuable insight from his point of view. I guess you could say its almost predictable, the way group dynamics works, I just wish there was a fast way to remember all the stages...

What do you suggest?

Gee Sorry, when I called I must have been on the phone 5 minutes max, and that included getting the presenatation kit ordered. If you need to know, try again

Oh man, no matter where I turn, all this disrespect for berets, I don't know where it comes from